Do You Understand Field's Logic? I Don't

[V8 Ford]

The aptera and volt are both series plug in hybrids, the difference in fuel economy comes from the far superior aerodynamics of the aptera and its weight savings.

 

If ford wants to do a pure electric, it's probably best that they do it from the ground up so it can be balanced properly and so the batteries can be packaged without wasting too much space.

 

 

And I presume that urea used is synthetic.

[Cougarpower]

What Mr. Fields its trying to say its that the normal american joe will not pay close to 4 or 5k more for a focus sized focus just to have a diesel and I see the logic, remember we Americans want economy cars but not to pay more than 22k for one, or who here would pay about 26k for a Diesel focus?

[Ford Jellymoulds]

"Their fantastic fuel economy is achieved through technology called torque multiplication and it can be applied to all diesel cars. In short, Trident have the solution to what we're told is a huge problem."

 

What's that? Is it real and will it last?

 

Frankly, diesel is still a hydrocarbon burning technology.

 

I'd rather see Ford invest in pure electrics that plug into solar home garages and range 80-100mi./charge.

 

This company will get sold to somebody like Bob Lutz who will then mothball it forever - TSR-2 it.

 

GREEN CARS ARE BORING?

 

 

Will it last?

 

Yes it would the super lightweight high MPG Carbon Fibre bodyshell will go on forever and so will the 6.5 litre V8 diesel engine you could hand it down to your Grandchildren and it would still run as sweet as a nut.

 

So its a very green car its fuel efficient, bodshell & engine would last forever its just the sort of car Bob Lutz would hate to see because he only wants to produce something that only lasts a max of 15 years, that can be thrown away in a environmently damaging way and build another car that uses more damaging processes & materials at the end of the day he has got to sell cars not longevity.

 

200 MPH + 100 MPG in town at 30 MPH, 68 MPG when you cruise at 70 MPH on a highway, 0-60 in 3.7 seconds, V8 Diesel engine that will last forever, 950lb/ft at 1800 RPM, carbon fibre bodyshell that lasts forever, and an exciting sports car shape not your usual generic boring, bland, dull cold jellymoulded crapbox.

 

 

Yes your right this car has nothing that would appeal to a car buyer in its make-up whatso ever, Bob Lutz get your cheque book out quick and scrap the junk, what we need is 5 MPG Ecoboost Blue II is dead right and please give it an extra boring dull boring kidnetic shape as possible so Ford can boast about exclusive Ferrari levels of sales in their car brochures.

 

USE US MADE ALGAE NOT ARAB GASOLINE LOOK AT YOUR TRADE DEBT IN OIL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pAM2kpxY0E

Edited September 6, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds

[TStag]

I get that there are issues with getting Diesel into the US. But you really have to look at what's happend in Europe to understand why the Germans are pushing Diesel so hard. In Europe Diesel effectively rescued the large car/ SUV because the mileage returned was so good. The Japanese missed the boat on Diesel and it actually cost them a lot of lost sales. I remember Honda desperatly sourcing Diesel engines from Rover in the early 90's because Diesel was taking of any they had no answer. Other Japanese car makers didn't have any diesel engines and had no western partner to supply them. Meanwhile the French and the Germans cranked out these engines and took market share. The Diesel engine now accounts for almost 50% of new car sales in the UK. In other EU countries it's much higher. We still can't make enough diesel to satisfy demand and it cost's more per litre than Petrol in some counteries but the MPG is so good no one cares.

 

Mercedes, BMW and co are therefore betting that they can take the US market the same way and it's in GM and Ford's interest to help them do it because Truck sales are in the toilet. Maybe increasing tax on petrol and cutting it on Diesel would get the ball rolling. However unpopular that may be at first.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Technology like used in the Aptera I believe is the best avenue because the ultimate source of energy is the Sun, not the Saudis. Diesel comes from the saudis don't 'cha know!

 

 

Gotta agree with you the Aptera is stunning it uses proper Aircraft aerodynamics with Aircraft materials like Carbon Fibre gotta say l prefer it to the Ford current prentious bullshitting do nothing jellymould boring aerodynamics just like the wings on 50's cars.

 

Ford are run by a bunch of wimps that would never make anything as bold or exciting as this so you can forget it gotta say if it had a Blue Oval on and it was made from lightweight Carbon Fibre that gives it the edge l would buy one. Its to futuristic the wimps running Detroit would end up making a weaker watered down version car sub-standard crap bullshiting boring jellymould shape made from heavyweight steel that wont be streamlined underneath they will keep it shape like a kids jellymould jelly, l won't build my hopes up of Ford ever build something as superb and brilliant as a Aptera, Ford don't do Aircraft type aerodynamics made from lightweight carbon fibre with the underneath streamlined they make 50's wings type bullshitting jellymould crap from heavyweight steel a very big difference.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds

[LincolnFan]

Obama is a legislator and he said in Detroit meeting things will have to CHANGE on C02 and Global Warming if he becomes and he will change things meaning laws, gasoline cars are not C02 friendly, Diesel cars produce 30-40% less C02 and they are 30% more fuel efficent so l can see big changes coming when the peak oil curve dropping downhill fast laws on diesels will change fast with it.

 

Oh yes, yes. Let's save Earth and kill everyone else with cancer.

[Edstock]

like a kids jellymould jelly, l won't build my hopes up of Ford ever build something as superb and brilliant as a Aptera, Ford don't do Aircraft type aerodynamics made from lightweight carbon fibre with the underneath streamlined they make 50's wings type bullshitting jellymould crap from heavyweight steel a very big difference.

So, when the Aptera uses aerodynamics, it's OK, but when Ford does aerodynamics, it's a jelly-mould. OK. Wind-tunnel testing for drag with 4-door sedans seems to generate what you call jelly moulds, regardless of manufacturer's badge on the model tested. That's aerodynamics for you, you might consider a head-space change to accommodate, because square-shape Cortinas ain't never coming back. That's what the wind tunnel says. Capice?

 

Carbon fiber is wonderful. It is also expensive, and slow to work with and cure. It's the slowness that's the problem. Great for low-volume, $35,000 Apteras, not so good for anything you plan to make 500+ units a day. Acres and acres of moulds, hundreds of autoclaves. I car per mould per day.

 

The good news is that this will change, but it's going to be the better part of a decade, or close to 2020 brfore composites arrive at high-volume levels.

 

If you can't wait, buy an Aptera or a used composite-chassis Porsche GT, or maybe Jim Hall still builds Chaparral 2 replicas.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

So, when the Aptera uses aerodynamics, it's OK, but when Ford does aerodynamics, it's a jelly-mould. OK. Wind-tunnel testing for drag with 4-door sedans seems to generate what you call jelly moulds, regardless of manufacturer's badge on the model tested. That's aerodynamics for you, you might consider a head-space change to accommodate, because square-shape Cortinas ain't never coming back. That's what the wind tunnel says. Capice?

 

Carbon fiber is wonderful. It is also expensive, and slow to work with and cure. It's the slowness that's the problem. Great for low-volume, $35,000 Apteras, not so good for anything you plan to make 500+ units a day. Acres and acres of moulds, hundreds of autoclaves. I car per mould per day.

 

The good news is that this will change, but it's going to be the better part of a decade, or close to 2020 brfore composites arrive at high-volume levels.

 

If you can't wait, buy an Aptera or a used composite-chassis Porsche GT, or maybe Jim Hall still builds Chaparral 2 replicas.

 

How much will the Aptera cost?

 

The approximate price for the all electric version is $27,000 and the plug-in hybrid $30,000. These prices are subject to change any time before we begin production. Toyota Pricey costs $41,500 in the UK.

 

Gotta say l am glad Henry Ford was not such a big quitter with NO CAN DO carbon fibre like you Ed if he had been a quitter Ford might have had low volume car production lines today, just picture it Ed lets say if only 1392 Mundanes rolled of the production lines today in the UK Uncle Henry would have thought Ford had become a low volume sales disaster car.

 

Gotta say if you fitted an econetic diesel engine in a Tina Ed you would get better MPG than a obese overweight boring Mundane.

 

Still no doubt Honda & Nissan will learn how mass produce 500,000 carbon fibre cars a year because they CAN DO, and Ford will have to play catch up as 5 MPG ECO-BLOWUPs don't quite match up to the 300 MPG that the Japs will offer as the Peak Oil curve starts to dip like a roller coaster, Ford will have nothing to offer except more job cuts.

http://collisionrepairmag.com/news/breakin...fibre-vehi.html

 

Gotta say l won't get my fingers burnt if l run my hands along the underneath Aptera with its smooth Aircraft type aerodynamic surfaces, if l run them over the lower surfaces of a Mundane with its dinosaur car aerodynamics l would cut my hand on something or burn it if l was not careful.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds

[chiefstang]

Ok. Am I the only one here who has NO idea what a jellymould is. I know what a jellybean is, so I think I know what it is implying, but until I arrived here I never heard of a jellymould. And what is with all the extra "u"'s in everything. Crazy limeys! :shades:

[syrtran]

"Their fantastic fuel economy is achieved through technology called torque multiplication and it can be applied to all diesel cars. In short, Trident have the solution to what we're told is a huge problem."

 

What's that? Is it real and will it last?

It's either a mythical device known to automotive futurists as a "torque converter" (probably locking) or one heck of a strong CVT. With fancy PR.

(or just a gearbox, like fbmphil said)

 

Seriously, who'd buy that thing when they could have an Audi or an MB (or even a lowly Holden) and a qualified service department?

 

Frankly, diesel is still a hydrocarbon burning technology.

 

I'd rather see Ford invest in pure electrics that plug into solar home garages and range 80-100mi./charge.

++

 

I'd bet that an EV or PHEV would be more marketable than a diesel to Americans right now, what with all the overhype of the Prius and the upcoming Insight.

 

 

P.S. An Aptera probably wouldn't survive a minor fender-bender. Too many vulnerable places easily accessible to another vehicle's bumpers. But it does look cool.

[FordBuyer]

What Mr. Fields its trying to say its that the normal american joe will not pay close to 4 or 5k more for a focus sized focus just to have a diesel and I see the logic, remember we Americans want economy cars but not to pay more than 22k for one, or who here would pay about 26k for a Diesel focus?

 

 

Why do Americans pay up to $30,000 for a Prius? Again, what is the fuel mileage of a VW diesel car? I believe it's around 52mpg highway and better than Prius. I would bet that Diesel Fiesta would be around same if it met U.S. emission regs. IMO, Ford should make diesel engines in Mexico for Fiesta and Focus and offer it as option. Ford would have tremendous bragging rights and shut up a lot of Ford haters in the least, and at most maybe have quite a few customers willing to pay more for diesel option and best fuel mileage in class. With 35mpg average not far away, Ford will probably eventually have to turn to diesel anyway. Gasoline engines will not meet that standard. It will take more hybrid offerings and diesel IMO. I for myself don't like diesel, but as technology gets better I would bet they become more popular and Ford can't afford to be late to the party anymore.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Ok. Am I the only one here who has NO idea what a jellymould is. I know what a jellybean is, so I think I know what it is implying, but until I arrived here I never heard of a jellymould. And what is with all the extra "u"'s in everything. Crazy limeys! :shades:

 

Most Americans will drive a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord Jellymould car they own the car market in the US maybe its a quite protest vote at boring, dull, bland cold crap car design.

 

Classic Mustang owns its market for God know how many years.

 

Classic F-Series No1 in the world.

 

Classic E Series boxy by default No1 best selling Van in the US forever.

 

Classic Transit Europes No1 best seller forever.

 

Now you tell me why you think no Fords cars ever make the "Classic" No1 spot in the US whilst the Camry does?

Edited September 6, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds

[chiefstang]

Most Americans will drive a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord Jellymould car they own the car market in the US maybe its a quite protest vote at boring, dull, bland cold crap car design.

 

Classic Mustang owns its market for God know how many years.

 

Classic F-Series No1 in the world.

 

Classic E Series boxy by default No1 best selling Van in the US forever.

 

Classic Transit Europes No1 best seller forever.

 

Now you tell me why you think no Fords cars ever make the "Classic" No1 spot in the US whilst the Camry does?

Huh??? Anybody know what the hell he just said?

[syrtran]

Why do Americans pay up to $30,000 for a Prius? Again, what is the fuel mileage of a VW diesel car? I believe it's around 52mpg highway and better than Prius.

The Prius is a bit bigger than a Fiesta. The EPA (arguably) calls it a mid-size. It supposedly seats five. And it outsells the Jetta TDI by a lot.

[syrtran]

Huh??? Anybody know what the hell he just said?

I think he hates jellybeans. :D

[RichardJensen]

Diesel Jetta mileage is 30 & 41.

 

30 & 41.

 

 

 

 

 

NOT 52. Not even CLOSE.

 

Euro mileage estimates are NOT analogous to US mileage estimates.

 

Euro emissions standards are NOT comparable to US emissions standards.

 

THEREFORE (and this is what David 'I'm phoning it in' Kiley misses) DIESELS IN EUROPE ARE NOT COMPARABLE TO DIESELS IN THE UNITED STATES.

 

The Diesel Jetta gets 20% better gas mileage than the Focus at roughly a $5k premium over a comparably equipped Focus.

[jpd80]

Would not a baby Ecoboost engine give phenominal fuel economy and sparkling performance in a Fiesta?

I thought that was Ford North America' strategy, diesel economy and gasoline performance.

Maybe Europe follows the US lead when they see what's on offer with Turbo DI gas engines?

Edited September 6, 2008 by jpd80

[FordBuyer]

Diesel Jetta mileage is 30 & 41.

 

30 & 41.

 

 

 

 

 

NOT 52. Not even CLOSE.

 

Euro mileage estimates are NOT analogous to US mileage estimates.

 

Euro emissions standards are NOT comparable to US emissions standards.

 

THEREFORE (and this is what David 'I'm phoning it in' Kiley misses) DIESELS IN EUROPE ARE NOT COMPARABLE TO DIESELS IN THE UNITED STATES.

 

The Diesel Jetta gets 20% better gas mileage than the Focus at roughly a $5k premium over a comparably equipped Focus.

 

If Ford can't get at least 50mpg out of diesel Fiesta for American shores, then I agree that 40mpg is not good enough as gasoline version will get close to that and Fields is right and I'm an idiot. I never knew that there was a 40% mileage penalty in taking a European diesel and getting it ready for U.S. regs. 40% is a very stiff penalty. I wonder if Honda and the other German companies understand that. I'm even wondering if Ford's new truck diesel for F-150 will get anything close to 25mpg highway and whether its even worth the effort. I know it will offer more torque, but if it comes with maybe 21mpg, why bother.

[jpd80]

If Ford can't get at least 50mpg out of diesel Fiesta for American shores, then I agree that 40mpg is not good enough as gasoline version will get close to that and Fields is right and I'm an idiot. I never knew that there was a 40% mileage penalty in taking a European diesel and getting it ready for U.S. regs. 40% is a very stiff penalty. I wonder if Honda and the other German companies understand that. I'm even wondering if Ford's new truck diesel for F-150 will get anything close to 25mpg highway and whether its even worth the effort. I know it will offer more torque, but if it comes with maybe 21mpg, why bother.

You will not get US Highway cycle 25mpg out of a 4.4 diesel equipped F150.

At best, it will give 20 % better fuel economy compared to the 5.4 V8.

 

Have a look on the Ford website, they only quote fuel economy from 14/20 mpg

which I'd assume that's for the outgiong 4.2 V6

Edited September 6, 2008 by jpd80

[Edstock]

Gotta say l am glad Henry Ford was not such a big quitter with NO CAN DO carbon fibre like you Ed

Jelly, you're entitled to your opinion, however ignorant or myopic it may be.

 

Now, listen up, nobody's quit. Got that? Capice?

 

Materials science is working flat-out as fast as possible to be able to give you what you want.

 

I'm sorry that composites are slow to fabricate.

 

The people who sell them and develop them are sorry, too, but they're not quitting.

 

But this isn't like trying to get the trans-fats out of your chips, or Henry farkling with soy resins in the 30's.

 

It's going to take til around 2020, maybe a little longer. They'll be using carbon NANO-fiber, with nano-scale amorphous resins.

 

Why NANO, instead of current carbon fiber? Do some research and find out, so that the fog-horn of opinion has some knowledge shaping the noise that the fog-horn belches forth.

[StevenCaylor]

Diesel Jetta mileage is 30 & 41.

 

30 & 41.

 

 

 

 

 

NOT 52. Not even CLOSE.

 

If we compare the diesel Jetta to a Prius, it should be for the automatic.

 

29 & 40 Jetta

 

48 & 45 Prius

 

Plus, don't forget, diesel is 20% more costly than 87 octane gas (at least where I live $3.75 vs $4.50)

 

Jetta $24190

 

Prius Touring $24,930

[RichardJensen]

I never knew that there was a 40% mileage penalty in taking a European diesel and getting it ready for U.S. regs.

Well, in all fairness, a substantial part of the difference is the EPA's updated testing regimen.

 

I think US emissions may take 15% or so...

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Jelly, you're entitled to your opinion, however ignorant or myopic it may be.

 

Now, listen up, nobody's quit. Got that? Capice?

 

Materials science is working flat-out as fast as possible to be able to give you what you want.

 

I'm sorry that composites are slow to fabricate.

 

The people who sell them and develop them are sorry, too, but they're not quitting.

 

But this isn't like trying to get the trans-fats out of your chips, or Henry farkling with soy resins in the 30's.

 

It's going to take til around 2020, maybe a little longer. They'll be using carbon NANO-fiber, with nano-scale amorphous resins.

 

Why NANO, instead of current carbon fiber? Do some research and find out, so that the fog-horn of opinion has some knowledge shaping the noise that the fog-horn belches forth.

 

Boeing & Airbus have used it since the early 80s the car industry are almost static, l just hope Ford don't lose out if Honda & Nissan manage to mass produce cars because they will have a massive advantage. 2020 thats nearly 40 years behind the aircraft industry.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

I think he hates jellybeans. :D

 

Gotta say November 19th BON can't come quick enough.

[jpd80]

Boeing & Airbus have used it since the early 80s the car industry are almost static, l just hope Ford don't lose out if Honda & Nissan manage to mass produce cars because they will have a massive advantage. 2020 thats nearly 40 years behind the aircraft industry.

Boeing and Airbus do not have to account for crumple zones in low speed impacts,

something composites do poorly