MarkFive Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Another record low? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F150 Man Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 This is mind boggling... The big boys must realize we will never be able to roll our commercial paper over in this environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Question is, would this be a good buy or a good bye? I'm thinking they will come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Question is, would this be a good buy or a good bye? I'm thinking they will come back. Good Buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Another record low? Well, in its defense, the entire market is down by huge numbers all around the world. Did you see the TSX? Its off by over 1000 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Well, in its defense, the entire market is down by huge numbers all around the world. Did you see the TSX? Its off by over 1000 points. I saw that. Stephen Harper says we shouldn't worry...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I saw that. Stephen Harper says we shouldn't worry...... Still shouldn't, because most economists agree with him that we're in good shape, though we may have a small recession. This whole thing is going to be bad for Ford and GM, and I'm not really sure what the outcome will be. It is going to sweep through the US, EU, Asia and Australia with huge negatives. Some economists are saying that the bailout may be enough to stave off a global depression, but I really hope that with all the negatives, Ford can pull through.I'm less optimistic about it. than I've been since...well...ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Its brutal for everyone. The market has been in the toilet for a while, and i do own some shares of Ford. because ive made money with them in the past, im really not down too much but the profit i made is gone (at the moment, but im not selling yet anyway). All the automakers took a big steaming poo this morning. TM is down as well about 8% as of this writing, and GM even looks like a good buy right now in the $8.70 range. Its a bloodbath, heres hoping for a rally later today. Yes, ive not been this worried about the future of Ford and GM before either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Its brutal for everyone. The market has been in the toilet for a while, and i do own some shares of Ford. because ive made money with them in the past, im really not down too much but the profit i made is gone (at the moment, but im not selling yet anyway). All the automakers took a big steaming poo this morning. TM is down as well about 8% as of this writing, and GM even looks like a good buy right now in the $8.70 range. Its a bloodbath, heres hoping for a rally later today. Yes, ive not been this worried about the future of Ford and GM before either. The ONE SILVER LINING is the plunging oil prices. IMO, the record high prices put us into this mess and plunging prices will take us out. Another plus is that next time we will be better prepared for high oil prices if we keep at it with sensible energy policy and new CAFE rules. The trick will be to survive this storm as calmer seas lie ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Car sales down by 21% in the UK for last month! The US effects are now being well and truly felt in Europe. The knock on effect is bound to hit Asia next. Russia just suspended it's stock exchange again on fears of falling oil prices. So they may start buying less too. This is deeply serious. If Ford and GM's shares fall much further then I think it's chapter 11 all the way. I don't think they will be the only companies either. But the knock on effect of these two failing could make a bad situation much, much worse for the banks. How much do this pair owe in loans alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) Jim Cramer said SELL SELL SELL your shares and stay out the Stock Market for 5 years? Markets sill sinking fast despite US Government bail outs. DOW - 5.57% http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/mo..._index_dow.html S&P -7.7% (Ford $3.45 at the moment) http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/mo..._index_spx.html FTSE -7.85 http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/mo..._index_ukx.html Edited October 6, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydez Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Jim Cramer said SELL SELL SELL your shares and stay out the Stock Market for 5 years? That only proves the guy is an idiot. There is a reason why he had a small cameo in Iron Man. His advice would be to sit tight for the next few years but not sell and abandon the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingBender Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 So for about the price of a gallon of gas, you can get one share of Ford stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) That only proves the guy is an idiot. There is a reason why he had a small cameo in Iron Man. His advice would be to sit tight for the next few years but not sell and abandon the market. LOL, the guy is probably sitting on the side-line with a pile of cash ready to invest sometime in the next few weeks. Oooops Ford is $3.40 Edited October 6, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 grrrr, almost want to buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 LOL, the guy is probably sitting on the side-line with a pile of cash ready to invest sometime in the next few weeks. Oooops Ford is $3.40 Fitch just downgraded Ford from B- to C as credit market worsens. This is why Ford is dropping more than most. Fitch stated that Ford will burn through $11 billion this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Fitch just downgraded Ford from B- to C as credit market worsens. This is why Ford is dropping more than most. Fitch stated that Ford will burn through $11 billion this year. What was Fitch's estimate for Ford's cash burn for 2006 and 2007? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F150 Man Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) What was Fitch's estimate for Ford's cash burn for 2006 and 2007? Just curious. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081006/ford_ratings.html?.v=2 If we assume $26.6B this past July - Fitch estimates we could be between $10-15B next July (minimum required to keep the lights on and make payroll etc). Burn rate: (26.6-11) = $15.6B Can you say broke! Edited October 6, 2008 by F150 Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081006/ford_ratings.html?.v=2 If we assume $26.6B this past July - Fitch estimates we could be between $10-15B next July (minimum required to keep the lights on and make payroll etc). Burn rate: (26.6-11) = $15.6B Can you say broke! This is the point I'm getting at: Many of these analysts predicted Ford would also "burn" through billions of dollars in 2007, and then lo-and-behold, Ford was actually cashflow POSITIVE for the year... I'm not saying that will also be the case for 2008, but it's just a note to take these sorts of "estimates" with a grain of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) What was Fitch's estimate for Ford's cash burn for 2006 and 2007? Just curious. As at Q2 2008 (June) ford still had $26.6 billion cash at hand. Now, they borrowed $24 billion but $11.5 Billion of that is a revolving line of credit still unused. So by my estimates, Ford had about $13 billion in loans and $26 billion in cash and it will be interesting to see figures out for Q3 later this month how they're really doing with the dreaded cash burn. You would think the government loans are a perfect time to retire as much debt as possible and take government finance in its place. Regarding cash burn, I think Ford is channelling income away from stock divident straight into cash burn in order to mitigate damage but most stock experts seem to be missing this point completely. Is Ford doing the injured bird play in order to manipulate stock prices to their advantage? Edited October 6, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I don't for a moment think this is as straight forward as calculating Ford's probable cash burn. Market confidence is failing, there comes a point where people start dumping stocks because they are terrified of what will happen next. Part of the problem in the US (and I think soon Europe) is that when Paulson "nationalised" banks he destroyed shareholder value. So if you own shares in a major US company like Ford you may well wonder if shareholder value will be destroyed by somekind of state ownership, or financial penalty for state aid. People are dumping shares in some case for no good reason, other than the markets dropping and they want to get out. Now I don't know what level Ford shares have to hit before the company goes bust (because banks get nervous and pull the credit) but if I was a Ford investor right now then frankly I'd sell. And that is no reflection on what I think of Ford's managment, or ability to get out of the mess they are in. But it's because I would fear for the way the market is going. As a side note I see Iceland's govenrment has said the country is bankrupt. When country's like Iceland start going under it's time to worry. Iceland's problem is that it lent vast sums of money to people in places such as the USA. Now these people are defaulting they are in huge trouble. There is even talk that they may now apply to join the EU...... an organisation they kind of left.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Oooops Ford is $3.40 Time for some people to put their money where their big mouth is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Time for some people to put their money where their big mouth is. I already own Ford stock. Whats the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 2.17 Billion outstanding shares. Ford closes at $3.69. It would cost approx $8 Billion to take over the majority of Ford's shares. It would even be enough to outvote the 40% the Family holds. Kirk should jump on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 2.17 Billion outstanding shares. Ford closes at $3.69. It would cost approx $8 Billion to take over the majority of Ford's shares. It would even be enough to outvote the 40% the Family holds. Kirk should jump on this. Lets do it! -First step, get $8 Billion dollars umm... lil help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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