Obama tax cut 'refunds' those who don't pay

[RangerM]

Finally someone addresses this:

 

Barack Obama says he will give 95 percent of all American workers a tax cut but does not mention that his plan would send checks to tens of millions of tax filers who pay no personal income taxes - payments that critics say look "suspiciously like welfare."

Edited October 13, 2008 by RangerM

[napfirst]

Finally someone addresses this:

I really don't think that the general public understand just how much of a socialist that he is......they better wakeup.

[RangerM]

I really don't think that the general public understand just how much of a socialist that he is......they better wakeup.

 

Quote Obama: "when you spread the wealth around, it's good for America"

 

Really?

 

So, would anyone like to explain whether or not a person's "wealth" belongs to the person that earned it or not?

Edited October 13, 2008 by RangerM

[Edstock]

Didn't the phrase "dumpster diving" get coined in America? If the economy tanks, it'll become the most popular sport in America — maybe they'll get it into the next Olympics.

 

Meanwhile, CEO's get 400 times the average wage: works for me, works for you. It'll all trickle down, right?

 

The good news is that, if dumpster-diving becomes an Olympic sport, the US will have no problem sweeping the podium.

[napfirst]

Didn't the phrase "dumpster diving" get coined in America? If the economy tanks, it'll become the most popular sport in America — maybe they'll get it into the next Olympics.

 

Meanwhile, CEO's get 400 times the average wage: works for me, works for you. It'll all trickle down, right?

 

The good news is that, if dumpster-diving becomes an Olympic sport, the US will have no problem sweeping the podium.

So you're ok with re-distribution?....if so why not start having more federal tax taken from your income....I say to those you want to pay more...be my guest...

[RangerM]

Meanwhile, CEO's get 400 times the average wage: works for me, works for you. It'll all trickle down, right?

 

What is Mullaly worth?

 

What is Mullaly worth to the Ford's Employees, Ford's shareholders, Dealers' employees, and America (as a whole) if Ford is turned around into a successful, profit-making machine in THIS country?

 

What say you Ford Employees on this board? What is Mullaly worth to you, if it means you kept your job?

Edited October 13, 2008 by RangerM

[napfirst]

What is Mullaly worth?

 

What is Mullaly worth to the Ford's Employees, Ford's shareholders, Dealers' employees, and America (as a whole) if Ford is turned around into a successful, profit-making machine in THIS country?

 

What say you Ford Employees on this board? What is Mullaly worth to you, if it means you kept your job?

Good question.....I think much like any other circumstance, a few crooks give a bad name to the rest....liberals are famous for their wealth envy.....but people like Mullaly have worked very hard to get to where they are now.....he has a track record of success at Boeing......how much was Lee Iacocca worth to the employes of Chrysler?....these same people who will bitch and moan about CEO pay, have no problem going to a sports event where all of the players are millionaires, even the ones that don't play...

Edited October 13, 2008 by napfirst

[JLaudioF150]

Good question.....I think much like any other circumstance, a few crooks give a bad name to the rest....liberals are famous for their wealth envy.....but people like Mullaly have worked very hard to get to where they are now.....he has a track record of success at Boeing......how much was Lee Iacocca worth to the employes of Chrysler?....these same people who will bitch and moan about CEO pay, have no problem going to a sports event where all of the players are millionaires, even the ones that don't play...

 

I for one think both CEOs and athletes are both grossly overpaid. I think 5-10 times the pay your highest paid employee is more than enough. Period.

[NickF1011]

I for one think both CEOs and athletes are both grossly overpaid. I think 5-10 times the pay your highest paid employee is more than enough. Period.

 

"Enough" should be defined by whomever is willing to pay it. :shrug: Just one man's opinion...

[akirby]

"Enough" should be defined by whomever is willing to pay it. :shrug: Just one man's opinion...

 

Make that two. I think a lot of things are overpriced and a lot of people overpaid but if people are willing to pay that much for something who am I to argue?

[Edstock]

So you're ok with re-distribution?....if so why not start having more federal tax taken from your income....I say to those you want to pay more...be my guest...

"I like paying taxes. With them I get civilization." — Oliver Wendell Holmes. Ollie was no fool.

 

Don't wanna re-distribute wealth? Then don't. It's not like I care, or anything.

 

It's just that history tends to show that when very few have nearly everything, eventually it gets taken away from them.

 

Sorta like the line from the Talking Heads' song, "Same as it ever was".

 

The good news is that employment in security and policing will be very good.

[napfirst]

"I like paying taxes. With them I get civilization." — Oliver Wendell Holmes. Ollie was no fool.

 

Don't wanna re-distribute wealth? Then don't. It's not like I care, or anything.

 

It's just that history tends to show that when very few have nearly everything, eventually it gets taken away from them.

 

Sorta like the line from the Talking Heads' song, "Same as it ever was".

 

The good news is that employment in security and policing will be very good.

You like paying taxes.....go for it..

[Ralph Greene]

We already do that. Both Republicans and Democrats signed off on it. It's called "Earned Income Tax Credit." And it is charity. No other word for it.

 

If you are a very low income worker, and file, you get all your Fed tax returned to you, plus some more. So your refund is greater than what you pay in. Unfortunately, it's embedded in our tax code already. It's not an Obama idea. Can't blame him. Before Obama came along, our Congress had decided it's OK to allow some, those who contribute the least, to dip into the public till.

 

The key is....you have to file. So those who don't file would get nothing. That requirement will eliminate some of the deadbeats at least.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Ralph Greene

[NickF1011]

You like paying taxes.....go for it..

 

I don't like paying taxes, but I see it as necessary-- as long as I'm paying my fair share. Of course, everyone's definition of fair is different.

[Len_A]

We already do that. Both Republicans and Democrats signed off on it. It's called "Earned Income Tax Credit." And it is charity. No other word for it.

 

If you are a very low income worker, and file, you get all your Fed tax returned to you, plus some more. So your refund is greater than what you pay in. Unfortunately, it's embedded in our tax code already. It's not an Obama idea.

 

The key is....you have to file. So those who don't file would get nothing. That requirement will eliminate some of the deadbeats at least.

"We already do that. Both Republicans and Democrats signed off on it. It's called

"Earned Income Tax Credit."

...it's embedded in our tax code already. "

Exactly! Thank you for posting an absolute fact.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Len_A

[suv_guy_19]

"I like paying taxes. With them I get civilization." — Oliver Wendell Holmes. Ollie was no fool.

 

 

Thank you, I couldn't remember who said that.

[Imawhosure]

I don't like paying taxes, but I see it as necessary-- as long as I'm paying my fair share. Of course, everyone's definition of fair is different.

 

Well then, let's discuss what is fair for government to do with YOUR money!!!!! Is discrimination fair? If it is not, then why does a SMALL certain segment of the population, pay way MORE of what it costs to run the country? What if I said-------->African Americans have to foot that bill? How about Hispanics?

 

What if I said----------->"We should take MINORITYS work money, and give it to everyone else?"

 

Nobody ever said that they were not willing to pay MORE for infrastructure than someone who is less able. But to say it is FAIR to deduct money from one persons pocket, with the intent of directly transferring to another, is PURE SOCIALISM. That would NOT be my definition, it is clearly pointed out in every Marxist book in print.

 

And as always, I do have a reasonable question-------------->Why in the world did we ever spend billions, on top of billions, to defeat the Union of Soviet SOCIALISTS Republic, when all our younger people and liberal minded people want to almost morph into the same system? We shoulda just joined them instead, and saved ourselves that money!!!!!

 

Trueman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and Reagan would kick all your asses if they were alive today. And gentlemen/ladies, I will take their outlook on our great country, long before I accept the vision of some junior senator named Barry, Hussein, Obama.

[Ralph Greene]

senator named Barry, Hussein, Obama.

 

Creeping Socialism is a danger of course....but what about bigotry?

Edited October 14, 2008 by Ralph Greene

[napfirst]

Creeping Socialism is a danger of course....but what about bigotry?

Where's the bigotry?

[Len_A]

Trueman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and Reagan would kick all your asses if they were alive today. And gentlemen/ladies, I will take their outlook on our great country, long before I accept the vision of some junior senator named Barry, Hussein, Obama.

Got news for you, Buckwheat. The Earned Income Tax Credit was started by the Ford administration in 1975, and was expanded heavily Reagan, who proposed something similar in 1972 in California as Governor, in the 1980's, and again in 1990 by Bush 41. President Clinton worked with a Republican Congress to increase the program even further. Moreover, several conservative economists have spoken highly of the program.

 

And like Ralph Green pointed out, what Obama's proposing sounds an awful lot like the Earned Income Tax Credit.

[RangerM]

From the IRS website:

If you’re like millions of Americans, you work hard but you don’t earn a high income, and want to keep more of what you earn. The Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) is a credit for people who earn low-to-moderate incomes. EITC can reduce your taxes, and can mean a refund. In simple terms, working families and individuals may keep more of what they work for.

I'd like to keep more of what I work for. Wouldn't everyone?

 

How does a person work to get a refund for taxes they didn't pay in the first place?

[Len_A]

From the IRS website:

If you’re like millions of Americans, you work hard but you don’t earn a high income, and want to keep more of what you earn. The Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) is a credit for people who earn low-to-moderate incomes. EITC can reduce your taxes, and can mean a refund. In simple terms, working families and individuals may keep more of what they work for.

I'd like to keep more of what I work for. Wouldn't everyone?

 

How does a person work to get a refund for taxes they didn't pay in the first place?

Good question. Let's resurrect Jerry Ford and Ronald Reagan, and ask them. Then we can ask Bush 41 and Bill Clinton. EITC got expanded by two Republican president's, one of whom is the hero of all the conservatives.

 

Any frickin' way you want to slice-and-dice it, this little bit of social engineering started with the GOP.

[retro-man]

Didn't the phrase "dumpster diving" get coined in America? If the economy tanks, it'll become the most popular sport in America — maybe they'll get it into the next Olympics.

 

Meanwhile, CEO's get 400 times the average wage: works for me, works for you. It'll all trickle down, right?

 

The good news is that, if dumpster-diving becomes an Olympic sport, the US will have no problem sweeping the podium.

I believe it's actually something more like 550 times. And in the early 60s it was about 55 times. I am old enough to remember those times and I can tell you they were much better times. (Incidentally, the marginal tax rates on individuals and corporations were higher in those days than they are now as well.) To RangerM and Napfirst, yes, a person is worth whatever someone is willing to pay them. I don't dispute that. In pure, rationalistic, legalistic, market terms, that is true. What I have a problem with is that, since the 80s (the days of "Dynasty", Michael Milken, and Reaganomics - what Bush I called "voodoo economics") we have lost all sense of DECENCY. In case you didn't notice it, let me emphasize I said DECENCY. We have accepted a false morality that says as long as something is legal, it is ipso facto ethical. That is a patent falsehood. It assumes that you can come up with a law to deal with every form of human vice (like greed, avarice, cupidity, rapacity, callousness, cruelty), which is not true. It removes the control of social mores that traditional societies imposed. It removes any sense of when too much is too much. It removes all shame in greed and gluttony. It takes the burden off of people to police themselves and control their base desires, and puts it on the law. "I'm not to blame. I did nothing illegal." It reduces people to an abject legalism that is the most blatant subversion of traditional values, yet ironically so-called conservatives have absolutely nothing to say about it. You only mount apologies for these guys and their indecent levels of greed and callousness. You tell us it will trickle down, when you certainly know better by now. Three decades of Reaganomics accompanied by an ever-widening wealth gap have thoroughly proved that trickle-down has failed to live up to the promises on which it was sold to the American people.

Edited October 14, 2008 by retro-man

[Imawhosure]

Creeping Socialism is a danger of course....but what about bigotry?

 

Bigotry? Am I bigot for calling the man by the name his mother gave him? Well, I am not sure she made his middle name Hussein, but I do know she put on his birth certificate BARRY. The only question remains is where he was actually born I think!

[fmccap]

I really don't think that the general public understand just how much of a socialist that he is......they better wakeup.

I don't think that the public understands just how Socialist things are becoming in the USA this last month. Funny thing is look at what party is in charge.