UAW needs to grant concessions

[lquidspine]

I agree with you but the reality is that without vehicle sales our jobs are in jeapordy and without political support from elected Government Officials from around the entire USA along with the President the 'Bailout' does not happen.We will know a lot more after Ron Gettlefinger and the CEO`s of the Big Three talk directly and publically to Washington D.C. I would get everyone together and say,"use the term LOAN-not Bailout-emphasizing that every penny of taxpayer dollar will be paid back with interest".I am getting sick,literally,of all these 'crisis' and I cannot help wondering if they are not an orchestrated clever,ruse,designed to manipulate the public.

We can finally agree on something bro, your last sentence rings true how many times has the big 3 tried to meet with Bush before the financial meltdown? for almost a year or so .

 

While I will agree something needs to be done with regards to loans to ensure the companies are able to operate, and that may even come with some rules set forth by the government as far as terms go.

 

But to get back on topic offering more concessions right off the top is not the answer, that may end up being a stipulation of the loans but lets cross that bridge when we get their. My beef with you has been since post 1 on this thread that you started , that you feel we have not done enough to help out the company. As Len_A has pointed out if history repeats itself their more than likely will be some kind of stipulations attached to the loans. But you as a union worker ( I am assuming you are) should not be so willing to make that move before it is warranted.

 

When the CEO's along with Ron Gettlfinger go to Washington let them all do their thing. Let Mullaly, and Wagnor explain why even on year's they where losing money why they paid out bonus's to salaried and hourly alike. Let those same CEO's explain that in those same years why they paid some of those bonuses even though they where not contractually obligated to, again while losing money.

Let those in charge at Chrysler explain why they are seeking to pay out millions in executive bonuses while they are ridding on the "we need loans" roller coaster.

 

Then let Mr. Gettlfinger stand up before the president and Congress and explain what we(" the spoiled overpaid autoworkers") have done to help the companies. I will repeat , taking responsibility over for retiree health care in 2010, more out of pocket co pays for current workers prescriptions, Entry Level wage tiering, outsourcing of some none core jobs ( exp. cleaners) and the one the average American hates us for new GEN/JSP language that includes time and offer limits on placement rejections.

 

But don't be so willing to offer up things that people literally gave blood to ensure we had. You are correct the reality may very well be we are forced to give more than we already have. I am just saying you have jumped the gun and seem to eager to throw in the cards before the dealer is finished dealing all the cards is all.

[Fatso]

Once again,as a UAW member it is my goal is too help the Ford motor Company sell vehicles and improve the image of the UAW.A scenario similiar to this current 'crisis' occured back in the late 1970`s with Chrysler and profit sharing was born..That is my opinion.I would be happy with a job at a successful company for a dollar an hour less.What`s that $40 a week?Once again,the Ford Motor Company hired me.We will see how it all plays out.I am not a negotiator employed by the UAW.Just a guy worried about his life.Ron is doing it right.Say no,then compromise if need be.What good would a strike do?

Edited November 16, 2008 by Fatso

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

I would be happy with a job at a successful company for a dollar an hour less. What`s that $40 a week?

 

What about $5? Or $10? I ask this because if there's going to be pay concessions, you can bet it will be more than $1 an hour.

[lowsenority]

What about $5? Or $10? I ask this because if there's going to be pay concessions, you can bet it will be more than $1 an hour.

 

Just say $5 an hour was asked from us. Is $25-$26 really bad money for the work we do? I'd rather make that than be without a job or working somewhere for $10 an hour.

 

Why do people bitch about $10 or $25 co-pays for? We make $30 an hour! How many times a week or month do some of these people see a doctor? I have a 3 year old, a 1 year old, and with my wife we don't see a doctor more than once every 3-4 months. Is that really breaking people? Really? I understand UAW fought for those things and then gave them up, but shit, its less that we make in one hour.

 

I was laid off in 05' and ever since I have felt my job has been up in the air. Now it seems even worse, but I've grown to the point that I'm tired of it bothering me and I'm just gonna ride it out to the point it gets better or ends. The UAW has helped me this far so I have trust in them to make the right decisions for me future. I just hope theres one left.

[lquidspine]

Why do people bitch about $10 or $25 co-pays for? We make $30 an hour! How many times a week or month do some of these people see a doctor? I have a 3 year old, a 1 year old, and with my wife we don't see a doctor more than once every 3-4 months. Is that really breaking people? Really? I understand UAW fought for those things and then gave them up, but shit, its less that we make in one hour.

Good to hear Low, but some as I do have multiple people in our household that require medication. The co pays are not that big of a deal to me but don't take that for granted for one minute, people fought hard to get the benefits we have today. My middle daughter is about to begin the first of several major surgeries due to clef lip palette issues from birth, think that the co pays wont be an issue soon for me she is only 8 years old.

 

While you where laid off back in 05 did you receive unemployment and sub ? if so what about the majority that weren't, maybe they might feel that since they have good seniority that sub and JSP might be something worthy of giving up. I'm not suggesting that we do I am simply trying to put things in perspective , some contractual thing some people rarely use and see not use for others may be dependant on.

 

In short; be careful what what you wish for , you may get it just not the way that best suits you.

[lowsenority]

I understand that there are situations where people visit the doctor more often than others, but some of the people I hear complaining seems to be complaining to do so. Like I said, I understand that it was fought for, but these people need to sit back and listen to themselves complaining to someone that has a $100 co-pay. I'm sure they sound like ungrateful assholes to most.

 

I was one of the higher seniority people in the GEN pool so I was actually one of the last to be laid off. My health benefits and unemployment never ran out before I was called back. There were people that had thier health benefits run out and that is the main reason why were called back to work. We were in the GEN pool for 6 to 8 weeks.

 

I appreciate what the UAW has done for me, but what makes me appreciate it even more is hearing how much others pay for co-pays. We never paid a single dime while my wife was pregnant with either of my boys. My sister in law on the other hand had to pay $150 a month while she was pregnant during her check ups. Her last month of pregnancy she had to go in every week til her due date and it cost her $150 every time she made the visit. Hearing that is what makes me appreciate what I have.

 

Just sayin...

 

BTW...I wish your daughter luck on her surgeries and I hope everything works out for her. Good Luck!

[DTPmustangdriver]

Do not make any overtures to give back anything. You have the UAW to do the negotiating IF there is to be any negotiating. The company you work for will have you working for nothing if they could. Just look at what they have done to their salaried employees because THEY COULD. All medicare eligible employees have lost ALL medical coverage and were given a $1800 stipend to go out and purchase Medical, dental, prescription coverage. Vision was done away with long ago. They used to supplement medicare coverage to the tune of $68 a month but that went away with the $1800 so they gave you About $1000 to buy coverage. Good luck. They also cut down life insurance which was part of your retirement package with them from 1.5 times your salary to $25000. Try going out at 62 and finding coverage to make up for it. They eliminated the dependent scholarship program for dependents entirely for salary people. The only thing I get now is my pension and a bulls*&t blue oval news letter. All this was done without even touching executive pay or bonuses. The company is in dire straights and I for one bled blue for this company and always will but the lopsidedness of the takeaways and the patronizing letters of appreciation for my sacrifices without it being done to executive pay and benefits gives me pause. The uaw negotiated 2 tier wage system and the veba agreement which are enormous givebacks already and before anything else is done lets let the executives in the glass house "give back" as they can afford far more than any of us. Fair is fair and I do not want to see Ford go under but let's be realistic and make the sacrifices across the board percentagewise.

 

I agree with much of what you said, but it is unfortunate that the UAW doesn't have a spokesperson to clearly explain to the public and shareholders what hard fought agreements have been sacrificed by us to continue to make the company viable again and again. . . I've seen films over the years about the UAW that shows the quality of life the UAW has negotiated to give UAW members a good life and made other peoples lives, inside and outside the industry better and of course the company makes money . . . The executives have not felt any of the pain . . .

[lquidspine]

I agree with much of what you said, but it is unfortunate that the UAW doesn't have a spokesperson to clearly explain to the public and shareholders what hard fought agreements have been sacrificed by us to continue to make the company viable again and again. . .

I will beg to differ, while in the last 3 years I have been critical of Mr. Gettlfinger. I now see some of the for sight he has had. What better spokesmen to address what UAW have given up in order to help the company be more competitive? What better person to tell congress as well as the president what the workers and without choice the Big 3's retiree's have given up to remain competitive. if things go as I think they will I will have to eat crow in allot of my criticism of Ron Gettlfinger.

[lquidspine]

promising news hope it stands as the speaker suggests it should.

[CSMJ]

I will beg to differ, while in the last 3 years I have been critical of Mr. Gettlfinger. I now see some of the for sight he has had. What better spokesmen to address what UAW have given up in order to help the company be more competitive? What better person to tell congress as well as the president what the workers and without choice the Big 3's retiree's have given up to remain competitive. if things go as I think they will I will have to eat crow in allot of my criticism of Ron Gettlfinger.

U need to see the REAL WORLD my friend

 

The public does not want to hear any excuses they want to see results either we give or were all gonna be out of a job!

as far as our $1 an hour giveback, we did not give it back to ford, ford still pays us that $1 an hour but it goes to the current VEBA for retirees.

 

Again the UAW is not gonna play hardball and push GM into bankruptcy because no GM and Ford would be the end of the UAW!

We wil get a cut and we will get a greater profit sharing %. A win/win

Edited November 16, 2008 by CSMJ

[Twincam Harley]

U need to see the REAL WORLD my friend

 

The public does not want to hear any excuses they want to see results either we give or were all gonna be out of a job!

as far as our $1 an hour giveback, we did not give it back to ford, ford still pays us that $1 an hour but it goes to the current VEBA for retirees.

 

Again the UAW is not gonna play hardball and push GM into bankruptcy because no GM and Ford would be the end of the UAW!

We wil get a cut and we will get a greater profit sharing %. A win/win

 

Sorry, I ain't giving up current wages for a pipedream of bigger profit sharing. That head of yours is full of crazy ideas.

 

No to wage and benefit cuts, period. Ron is right. We gave up a great deal in the last negotiations and this current crisis has nothing to do with our wages and benefits which total only 8-10% of the vehicle price. That is not out of line.

 

Again, we could be working for $5 per hour and it would not help Ford or GM out of this mess because our wages are not the issue. As far as public perception goes, they know what we make and have for a long time. Alot of you ass clowns make it a habit of posting all our info here and all over the web. Then you post your argument for concessions. Hard to believe many of you are even union. You certainly aren't in my book.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Twincam Harley

[half way there]

before i start i will state i am union......i dont pretend to know what will solve our problems uaw ford gm etc......i do know this if cars dont sell we are toast... right now they are not selling... like it or not we have lost the public relations issue period... the public has zero sympathy for our plight......republicans and right wing radio have so posioned the water that our fellow americans actually hate us....it is sad.....all i ask everyone to ponder.... right now on layoff we receive 90% wages. if we make the wong decision what is 90% of nothing..............again i have no idea what the right call is ... god help us all..... no one else seems to care..........

[Twincam Harley]

before i start i will state i am union......i dont pretend to know what will solve our problems uaw ford gm etc......i do know this if cars dont sell we are toast... right now they are not selling... like it or not we have lost the public relations issue period... the public has zero sympathy for our plight......republicans and right wing radio have so posioned the water that our fellow americans actually hate us....it is sad.....all i ask everyone to ponder.... right now on layoff we receive 90% wages. if we make the wong decision what is 90% of nothing..............again i have no idea what the right call is ... god help us all..... no one else seems to care..........

 

Concession aren't even on the table. IT'S EMPLOYEES BRINGING IT UP! WTF IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!

[lquidspine]

U need to see the REAL WORLD my friend

 

 

as far as our $1 an hour giveback, we did not give it back to ford, ford still pays us that $1 an hour but it goes to the current VEBA for retirees.

 

 

We wil get a cut and we will get a greater profit sharing %. A win/win

I dont see that $1 an hour added to my pay do I CSMJ ? No that went to the retiree health care fund something the company did not properly fund and we are bailing them out of that obligation so yes it's a give back.

 

You may be right we may be forced as part of the government loans but no worker should be just giving that shit up off the top, all that willl do is give the company more reason to take more. They always want more believe that, thats the real world.

 

On the topic of profit sharing I am happy where we are with that, don't count on a higher % either, definatly don't count on seeing any profit sharing anytime soon.

Edited November 16, 2008 by lquidspine

[Pioneer]

We make $30 an hour!

 

 

Production makes $30 an hour? When did this happen?

[half way there]

Concession aren't even on the table. IT'S EMPLOYEES BRINGING IT UP! WTF IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!

concessions are not on the table?????? what news are u watching??????? the republicans (assholes) have clearly stated no concessions or contract reopenings no talky........even our supposed supporters hilary clinton.. said concessions of some sort must be on the table....i dont like it anymore than you .......but we must be open to ideas.....90% of nothing is 000000000000000. god help our uaw leaders

[Twincam Harley]

concessions are not on the table?????? what news are u watching??????? the republicans (assholes) have clearly stated no concessions or contract reopenings no talky........even our supposed supporters hilary clinton.. said concessions of some sort must be on the table....i dont like it anymore than you .......but we must be open to ideas.....90% of nothing is 000000000000000. god help our uaw leaders

'

 

They are not on the table. Where's specifics? If they want concessions from the union, they can take a hike. It ain't our pay and benefits that are the problem. These so called ANALysts speaking out in the papers expressing their opinions don't have any say in this matter.

 

If Ford goes under, I'll move on to something else. How much time do you all have? You must be low seniority to be talking scared like you all are.

 

Remember, Ford has cash to get through 2009 and into 2010. New models are coming out. GM is the problem. I don't give anything for GM as they are not my employer.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Twincam Harley

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

Remember, Ford has cash to get through 2009 and into 2010.

 

Depends on how fast they burn through that cash. Hopefully sales pick up to slows things down.

 

http://www.freep.com/article/20081107/BUSINESS01/81107010

 

If this cash burn rate is sustained, Ford — which has been regarded as the financially strongest of the Detroit Three automakers — only has enough money to last seven more months, or until April 2009.

[Twincam Harley]

Depends on how fast they burn through that cash. Hopefully sales pick up to slows things down.

 

http://www.freep.com/article/20081107/BUSINESS01/81107010

 

True. Let's hope Mullaly is right and the cash burn slows as he has said it will.

[CSMJ]

Why does the alabama senator shelly hate us!!!!???

Again he is a advid "christian" yet he wants the workers to have no rights, no equal pay and no insurance as they do in his state. Thou shll not join a union and if thou does thou shall go to HELL

that is his 1st commandment.

Here is a plan mr shelly how about the foreign car companies that are SUBSIDIZED HEAVILY by these southern states pay a fair wage . How about raising there wages to at least $20 an hour from $14.

You know what take your "bible" and stick it!!!!!!!!

My Bible says love thou neighbor not screw thou northern union foe!!!!

At least he cant be accused of speaking out of both sides of his mouth

Edited November 17, 2008 by CSMJ

[Pioneer]

Why does the alabama senator shelly hate us!!!!???

 

 

Because Alabama has transplant factories.

[lowsenority]

Production makes $30 an hour? When did this happen?

 

 

It's been a couple weeks since I actually got a check stub so I might be off by a dollar or so. I'm almost posotive that with COLA its right at $30

[lquidspine]

BTW...I wish your daughter luck on her surgeries and I hope everything works out for her. Good Luck!

Thank you , just as I wish all of us good luck through these trying times.

[CSMJ]

Because Alabama has transplant factories.

thats not the real reason!

[Hard Driver]

Regarding "bailouts" or whatever you would like to call them...Why didn't the employees and executives working in the financial businesses that were "helped" make concessions instead of getting bonuses and planning huge parties?