rkisler Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Reasonably good article on Ford's electric car effort in a Focus platform which will be shown at the Detroit Auto Show. Also includes a video with Nancy Gioia and Barb Samardzich.... Article can be found at: NYT Article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) All inside 12 months development - it makes a mockery of 2 to 4 year timetables...... Ford estimates that its car will need at least a six-hour charge to travel 100 miles. Given most commutes are less than 35 miles, I'd say Ford is right on the mark and even though it doesn't have a range extending gas engine, it won't carry Volt's $40,000 price tag either. Maybe a fuel cell option could be added if people wanted the ultimate tourer..... Edited January 11, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 All inside 12 months development - it makes a mockery of 2 to 4 year timetables...... I agree. They built this prototype in about six months, and it takes North America almost three YEARS to get the Fiesta AFTER they are on sale in Europe and it's basically the same car!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I agree. They built this prototype in about six months, and it takes North America almost three YEARS to get the Fiesta AFTER they are on sale in Europe and it's basically the same car!!!! Now we see through their tired BS - Ford Motor only do things if they feel threatened and on the edge. It takes three years because Ford NA went off the corporate plan - with C and D cars that is. Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo/Fusion, Mustang and Taurus/Falcon - sounds a pretty consistent showroom to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Ford Motor only do things if they feel threatened and on the edge. That can be said of most of large corporations. They tend to be conservative and risk-adverse. There are exceptions of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 OK. Ford gives them a complete Ford Focus. They remove the engine. Add a battery and some electric motors. May be cut up the body and weld on a few changes. They do this within a year and give Ford a bill for a million dollars. Ford gets no warranty, they only expect it to run for a few weeks at an autoshow. And you are impressed? The 4 years required to design a car is because you 1. want to build the car as cheap as posible, 2. Want the car to be reliable for 5 to 10 years, and 3. not have any little unknown safety issue that could lead to a law suit or a recall. The delay for the US Fiesta is more an issue of figuring out how to cheaply build a European car in a factory designed to make American cars. The Fiesta must be assembled in a given order and the US plant likely has to be completely redesigned to manufacture it. Once Ford has all it's cars and all it's plants on the same system around the world, then they will be able to do a lot more faster and cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 And you are impressed? Yes. Yes I am. The 4 years required to design a car is because you 1. want to build the car as cheap as possible, 2. Want the car to be reliable for 5 to 10 years, and 3. not have any little unknown safety issue that could lead to a law suit or a recall. Two out of three are already taken care of because you are using a production vehicle as the base. The only thing you need to worry about is the reliability of the electric powertrain, and with the experience with the Fusion and Escape Hybrid, you should already know what to do. The delay for the US Fiesta is more an issue of figuring out how to cheaply build a European car in a factory designed to make American cars. The Fiesta must be assembled in a given order and the US plant likely has to be completely redesigned to manufacture it. The Fiesta is being built in a Mexican facility that will be/has been completely gutted. There is no figuring involved, as Ford has done this before and is starting with no production constraints. When the machines were made for Europe, they could have ordered two and been done with it except for install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The Fiesta is being built in a Mexican facility that will be/has been completely gutted. There is no figuring involved, as Ford has done this before and is starting with no production constraints. When the machines were made for Europe, they could have ordered two and been done with it except for install. Ever think that Ford couldn't afford to retool the plant at the same time? Or it needed a source of F-150 for the South American market? I'm not sure if they where still building the previous gen F-150s there or not before it was retooled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Now we see through their tired BS - Ford Motor only do things if they feel threatened and on the edge.It takes three years because Ford NA went off the corporate plan - with C and D cars that is. Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo/Fusion, Mustang and Taurus/Falcon - sounds a pretty consistent showroom to me. First, JPD, you are right that Ford has always seemed to operate best when under extreme stress. Of course, the fast timing was just to build a mule. But I will have to say, judging from the video, it appears they did a very nice job. We shouldn't forget that Ford has quite a long history with electric car development. In addition to the "fling" with Think, Ford had several internal and external projects including pure electric, fuel cell, and plug-in hybrids. So the motors, control systems, electrically-driven accessories, etc., are all well understood. The key has been the batteries. Despite some of the drawbacks (cost, cold weather performance), lithium batteries seem like they will offer those who want a pure electric enough range to make BEV's acceptable. What I find interesting is the comment that the actual limited production vehicle will have a more unique appearance. Which brings up some interesting questions on which platform as the basis for that vehicle as the Focus will be "on the move" in a couple of years. You really want to be on the new platform if at all possible if the actual vehicle is going to be Focus-based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 What I find interesting is the comment that the actual limited production vehicle will have a more unique appearance. It is planning a more distinctive design for the finished product when it goes on the market in two years. I took that quote to just mean that it'll be in the new Focus' body when it comes out, rather than the current one, but it could be more distinctive than that, as you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Ever think that Ford couldn't afford to retool the plant at the same time? Or it needed a source of F-150 for the South American market? I'm not sure if they where still building the previous gen F-150s there or not before it was retooled. :cheerleader: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 I agree. They built this prototype in about six months, and it takes North America almost three YEARS to get the Fiesta AFTER they are on sale in Europe and it's basically the same car!!!! Hmmmm. I thought we had thrashed through this one before. Ford's timetable for development of new products is virtually identical to the best in the world, but the Fiesta had several issues. Ford did not include the US in the original product plan. That means US safety and emissions requirements were not taken into consideration which has necessitated some product changes. And, Ford wavered on the assembly location. Sourcing from Europe was obviously not affordable, nor was US. So Brazil, China, then Mexico. But even if there are lots of reasons for the delay, it is really frustrating. We need that car now. Especially in places like California where Ford needs to virtually start over to build market share. Even if the products are totally identical, the normal timing for follow-source production is around 3-6 months. This allows the lead activity to send personnel to the second launch to pass on "lessons learned" and also allows incorporation of last-minute engineering changes to ensure a high-quality product. This timing is more what I would expect to see in the future when Ford lines up products from the beginning of the development process. Back on electrics....it will be interesting to see how Ford involves Magna in the production of car BEV's or if they just assisted in the prototype. Magna has always wanted to get into complete vehicle assembly in North America (they assemble in Europe through a joint venture). I don't see this product being made "on line" in Wayne/MTP for now, although I suppose there is enough room between the two facilities to set up an off-line operation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUCKRACER Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) Reasonably good article on Ford's electric car effort in a Focus platform which will be shown at the Detroit Auto Show. Also includes a video with Nancy Gioia and Barb Samardzich.... Article can be found at: NYT Article "The days of gas engines are numbered" What an IDIOT! Becker is a typical Eco-Nazi. Until we go all Nuclear, a HUGE percent of our electricity will be (in reality) be generated by fossil fuels of some form for many decades to come. Edited January 11, 2009 by DUCKRACER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDuff Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hmmmm. I thought we had thrashed through this one before. Ford's timetable for development of new products is virtually identical to the best in the world, but the Fiesta had several issues. Ford did not include the US in the original product plan. That means US safety and emissions requirements were not taken into consideration which has necessitated some product changes. And, Ford wavered on the assembly location. Sourcing from Europe was obviously not affordable, nor was US. So Brazil, China, then Mexico. Sorry, but apparantly it needs more. The Fiesta needs more r&d too. American engineers need their hands on this car before its brought to market. F of E cars just aren't ready for the NA market immediately. I don't know if everyone remembers the 2000 Focus problems at launch. I'm sure a lot of people will defend this car, but working in the dealer I remember differently. 22 recalls total and 11 within the first year. I don't think Ford wants this to happen at the Fiesta launch too, or the '11 Focus for that matter. I remember some days that's all it felt like we were doing was Focus recalls. Please Ford, take your time! Sorry for keeping the thread hijacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 22 recalls total and 11 within the first year. The recalls were not because of the vehicle itself, but because of the bean counters nickel and dimeing the components to death. You can only squeeze so much savings out of a component before it becomes weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The recalls were not because of the vehicle itself, but because of the bean counters nickel and dimeing the components to death. You can only squeeze so much savings out of a component before it becomes weak. There were also horrendous problems with assembly quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 [The Fiesta is being built in a Mexican facility that will be/has been completely gutted. There is no figuring involved, as Ford has done this before and is starting with no production constraints. When the machines were made for Europe, they could have ordered two and been done with it except for install. Retooling at the plant couldn't have started much sooner than it did. It was still producing F-series trucks until not very long ago. As for the tooling, it would be ridiculous to assume the tooling could have been ordered at the same time, as when most of those orders were placed, the U.S. wasn't even part of the program yet. We should count our lucky stars that we are even getting involved in this generation of Fiesta instead of the much simpler and likely far cheaper option of just waiting for the next generation entirely. If not for Mulally, that's probably where we would be. Is it tough to wait for the Fiesta? Yes. It annoys me too, and I've posted plenty of times to that affect, but complaining about things that can't really be rushed anymore than they already are doesn't accomplish anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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