sub fund and 3% bonus modification

[Hotlanta]

Well, my father in law, a retiree, got a letter yesterday. I'm picking it up this afternoon to scan it. It's about his VEBA. Apparently some dire warnings. Now, my father in law is a retiree as is my own father (since this December). I, personally, am willing to bite the bullet and give up part of my sub, take a wage cut, lose COLA, never see overtime again, etc. BUT THAT ALL GOES OUT THE DOOR IF EVEN ONE SINGLE RETIREE LOSES ONE GODDAMN DOLLAR IN THEIR PENSION OR MEDICAL BENEFITS! That is my position and it will remain unchanged. I know that this will not apply to everyone but, hey, the way I see it, for as hard as the retirees fought for our benefits and wages, the least I can do is make a stand, even a nominal one, to protect what they fought for! Those dickheads in the IUAW and the company managed to totally screw everything up and now those who went before, are here now and will come after will bear the brunt of it while these assholes go off into the sunset scott free! Unfreakinbelievable!

 

I got the same letter. It states all the things that have happened that "may" impact the VEBA. The companies were required to keep the "internal" veba's in place, which meant that instead of being able to move that money around, all those investments (things like 401 k's, university endowments, pension plans, etc.) all lost value and now have a much lower value than originally projected.

 

The letter also states that "The UAW and Class Counsel expect the companies will want to amend their obligations to fund the VEBA Trust as part of these restructuring negotations".

 

Gee, ya think?

 

It doesn't look any better (in fact, it looks much worse) for the retirees than it does for current workers.

 

Either way, I'm trying my best to sock as much money away now that I can. Which isn't easy in THIS economy.

[fordworker]

Well, my father in law, a retiree, got a letter yesterday. I'm picking it up this afternoon to scan it. It's about his VEBA. Apparently some dire warnings. Now, my father in law is a retiree as is my own father (since this December). I, personally, am willing to bite the bullet and give up part of my sub, take a wage cut, lose COLA, never see overtime again, etc. BUT THAT ALL GOES OUT THE DOOR IF EVEN ONE SINGLE RETIREE LOSES ONE GODDAMN DOLLAR IN THEIR PENSION OR MEDICAL BENEFITS! That is my position and it will remain unchanged. I know that this will not apply to everyone but, hey, the way I see it, for as hard as the retirees fought for our benefits and wages, the least I can do is make a stand, even a nominal one, to protect what they fought for! Those dickheads in the IUAW and the company managed to totally screw everything up and now those who went before, are here now and will come after will bear the brunt of it while these assholes go off into the sunset scott free! Unfreakinbelievable!

I respectfully disagree with you.

you have about 20 yrs in right? AND as an example lets say this....If I had a 2 ford income Id say yes cut our pay by 25% and in the end Id still have over a 100K income.

Im not giving up shit. The UAW agreed to those terms to get the Bush loan now abide by them ot the bond holders are not going to take 1 dime less and GM/Ford will go to chapter 11 and then everyone looses especially the retirees.

Edited February 18, 2009 by fordworker

[Spring]

I respectfully disagree with you.

you have about 20 yrs in right? AND as an example lets say this....If I had a 2 ford income Id say yes cut our pay by 25% and in the end Id still have over a 100K income.

Im not giving up shit. The UAW agreed to those terms to get the Bush loan now abide by them ot the bond holders are not going to take 1 dime less and GM/Ford will go to chapter 11 and then everyone looses especially the retirees.

 

 

That's why I clarified that this was only MY position. I totally understand where you're coming from. Right now, none of us have any real concrete information in front of us and can only speculate without being able to read ALL of the language so I suppose the best any of us can do is state our opinions. Hey, if the retirees get screwed, I can see myself with my parents in one part of the house, my in-laws in the other part and my poor husband hiding in the garage! lol Fun, fun, fun! I guess I'd better go see if the tent is still in one piece....

[Len_A]

Well, my father in law, a retiree, got a letter yesterday. I'm picking it up this afternoon to scan it. It's about his VEBA. Apparently some dire warnings. Now, my father in law is a retiree as is my own father (since this December). I, personally, am willing to bite the bullet and give up part of my sub, take a wage cut, lose COLA, never see overtime again, etc. BUT THAT ALL GOES OUT THE DOOR IF EVEN ONE SINGLE RETIREE LOSES ONE GODDAMN DOLLAR IN THEIR PENSION OR MEDICAL BENEFITS! That is my position and it will remain unchanged. I know that this will not apply to everyone but, hey, the way I see it, for as hard as the retirees fought for our benefits and wages, the least I can do is make a stand, even a nominal one, to protect what they fought for! Those dickheads in the IUAW and the company managed to totally screw everything up and now those who went before, are here now and will come after will bear the brunt of it while these assholes go off into the sunset scott free! Unfreakinbelievable!

I hear you, and I agree with you, up to a point. My father is a retiree, and also got the same letter, and man was he freaked out by it. Here's the problem - if this doesn't pass, there's no guarantee that Obama's "automotive council" will be any better toward the Detroit auto makers than the Bush administration or the majority of both parties in Congress. If GM or Chrysler if forced into bankruptcy court, Ford won't be far behind, and bankruptcy court changes everything. I've been reading posts on other websites and blogs, and the amount of anti Big Three and especially anti UAW member sentiment is disturbing. I would say that most of them are nothing but keyboard jockeys, but with email and faxes, keyboard jockeys are all you need to swamp both the White House and Congress with anti-Big Three and anti-UAW emails and faxes. I'll remind you what a lot of Democrats, including Pelosi and Dodd said last November when all of this was coming to a head - all the stakeholders will have to "take a haircut". To their standards, not ours.

 

If any of the Detroit car companies end up in bankruptcy court, the damage will fuck up the suppliers, and fuck up the remaining companies. Game fucking over. And the way the housing market has been so fucking devestated and there no equity for most people to tap into, there's no way in the next eighteen months to two years that cars sales are going to make a comeback. We're looking at trying to make these companies do better than break even in a ten million car sales per year market with the Detroit car companies having less than half that market, but supporting two to three generations of retirees. With the majority of Americans not having real pensions or retiree health care, and half of them already don't buy our cars. And the majority of the half that does buy our cars, the majority of them don't like any of us, and the loan requests (and the amount growing in the last eleven weeks) have alienated most of them.

[theman1966]

No, No, No....

 

SOLIDARITY

if we all vote no it will pass anyway that is just the way the UAW DOES IT NOW IT PASSED BY 2% 49 to 51

[lquidspine]

if we all vote no it will pass anyway that is just the way the UAW DOES IT NOW IT PASSED BY 2% 49 to 51

Last I knew dues paying members where still what made up the UAW not the top elected rep's, maybe its time for us to actually band together and make our feelings known.

This union was made by people taking action not just sitting around the break rooms bitching about how leadership did something we all know was wrong. Keep an eye out for action that can be taken its time our rep's started working for us again and not the other way around.

[Spring]

Will this start your SUB weeks over or will all the sub we have drawn here recently count towards our weeks?

 

 

That, my friend, is the question of the hour!

[jt150]

Last I knew dues paying members where still what made up the UAW not the top elected rep's, maybe its time for us to actually band together and make our feelings known.

This union was made by people taking action not just sitting around the break rooms bitching about how leadership did something we all know was wrong. Keep an eye out for action that can be taken its time our rep's started working for us again and not the other way around.

 

 

 

yeah good luck with that one!!!!!!

[Fatso]

The answer to your relatives health care issues is Nationalized Health Care.Vote NO on concessions It is not our fault that the bankers and corrupt politicians destroyed the USA financial system

[twodogfam]

Will this start your SUB weeks over or will all the sub we have drawn here recently count towards our weeks?

Do you really think they will start over? 48 weeks for the life of the contract, 2 more years! Just because the are opening it doesn't mean they will start that time over. CAP has at least 24 weeks so far.

[228electrician]

if this is all we have to give up to make the government and company happy, so be it, its not bad, as long as they did not cut our healthcare any more and they did not touch the retirees or our pay, this is nothing that we can't get back when good times start again, which seem to be right around the corner. my vote is yes if that is all that is affecting us.

[fordguy61mi]

if this is all we have to give up to make the government and company happy, so be it, its not bad, as long as they did not cut our healthcare any more and they did not touch the retirees or our pay, this is nothing that we can't get back when good times start again, which seem to be right around the corner. my vote is yes if that is all that is affecting us.

 

Of course we're going to get a cut in pay! Have you noticed over the years how the cost-of-living allowance would get up over a dollar on our checks and then at contract they'd roll it into our hourly base wages? They want to take that from us. This is a HUGE concession and will effect us for years to come, maybe not right now, but when the economy improves we'll eventually get left in the dust pay-wise as the cost of living increases. Article below.

 

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090218/autos_uaw.html?.v=3

[willie715]

The union gave up two of the four lump-sum bonuses due workers during the four-year contract, the source said.

 

Supplemental unemployment benefits also have been limited. Idled workers with more than 20 years of service can collect SUB pay for 52 weeks at the traditional 72 percent of take-home pay and another 52 weeks at half pay, the source said. Workers with less than 20 years get 72 percent SUB pay for 39 weeks and half pay for an additional 39 weeks, the source said.

 

Those SUB provisions are all that UAW members can get now that the Jobs Bank has been eliminated. The Jobs Bank was a program that guaranteed idled workers 95 percent of pay and full benefits indefinitely if no other job could be found for them

 

 

I'm voting no!

This guy has no credibility. Jobs Bank, which is J.S.P. you get 100% of your pay, or if you stay home you receive 85%, not 95%. His sub pay benefit numbers are wrong too. Just disregaurd everything he is saying.

[Firefly]

VEBA. Maybe someone else has previously stated this, but don't forget Ford workers that ONE DOLLAR of a previous raise is diverted into VEBA. I've been told that this is still the case. GM and Chrysler took their Dollar raise while we voted to fund our retirees. Can someone tell me if every hour I work my dollar is reaching this fund? Can we ALL be shown? We don't need equal pattern bargaining if WE are funding part of this fund. This was supposed to bring job security like ALL the concessions we've previously encountered.

[Firefly]

I've heard part of the same thing about the lump sum bonuses and sub; plus no more "pay in lieu" for vacation, no Christmas bonus, lose one week of vacation, and higher co-pays or deductibles.

[motiontf]

I've heard part of the same thing about the lump sum bonuses and sub; plus no more "pay in lieu" for vacation, no Christmas bonus, lose one week of vacation, and higher co-pays or deductibles.

 

 

 

sounds like BS to me!

[Raws41900]

I've heard part of the same thing about the lump sum bonuses and sub; plus no more "pay in lieu" for vacation, no Christmas bonus, lose one week of vacation, and higher co-pays or deductibles.

 

no more pay in lieu for vacation? how the hell does that help? they would rather force you to take your time and pay someone overtime to cover you?

 

that all sounds like bullshit to me.

[dwford]

I'm so glad that you're fortunate enough not to have to worry about this. However, many of us are not in that position. Given the number of down weeks many of our facilities are experiencing (and it's expected to only get worse), we'll reach a critical point sooner rather than later. You may be able to afford losing part of your sub but to some of us, that amounts to $150.00 to $200.00 per week in S.U.B. that will be lost. It will be considerable for some families. Again, I'm glad that this won't adversely impact you - based on what you've said.

 

 

I don't work for Ford. I live out here in the real world where when you lose your job, you get unemployment and THAT'S IT. You cut off the cable, sell the boat, eat generic brands etc.. until you find a new job.

 

You guys have given up on Ford. You are fighting for sub pay under the assumption that Ford will continue to fail. Do you not even know all the great stuff Ford has coming in the next 2 years? Don't you read the other threads in this forum about the products? Ford is miles ahead of GM and Chrysler with the restructuring. You guys should be begging the union to take stock to cover the lost money of any concessions. Don't give up the cash for the VEBA, though.

[MTP'er]

if this is all we have to give up to make the government and company happy, so be it, its not bad, as long as they did not cut our healthcare any more and they did not touch the retirees or our pay, this is nothing that we can't get back when good times start again, which seem to be right around the corner. my vote is yes if that is all that is affecting us.

 

 

I take it your skilled trades. This is just the tip of the iceburg, they said on the local news that the trades are going to take the biggest hit.

Give it another week when the details come out, I think you'll change your mind. :shades:

[Hotlanta]

I don't work for Ford. I live out here in the real world where when you lose your job, you get unemployment and THAT'S IT. You cut off the cable, sell the boat, eat generic brands etc.. until you find a new job.

 

You guys have given up on Ford. You are fighting for sub pay under the assumption that Ford will continue to fail. Do you not even know all the great stuff Ford has coming in the next 2 years? Don't you read the other threads in this forum about the products? Ford is miles ahead of GM and Chrysler with the restructuring. You guys should be begging the union to take stock to cover the lost money of any concessions. Don't give up the cash for the VEBA, though.

 

Well, speaking of reading THREADS - if you practiced what you preached, then you should see very CLEARLY at the top of this very page that it states in bright red letters "This Forum is for Ford Employees Only!"

 

'Nuff said.

[Raws41900]

I don't work for Ford. I live out here in the real world where when you lose your job, you get unemployment and THAT'S IT. You cut off the cable, sell the boat, eat generic brands etc.. until you find a new job.

 

You guys have given up on Ford. You are fighting for sub pay under the assumption that Ford will continue to fail. Do you not even know all the great stuff Ford has coming in the next 2 years? Don't you read the other threads in this forum about the products? Ford is miles ahead of GM and Chrysler with the restructuring. You guys should be begging the union to take stock to cover the lost money of any concessions. Don't give up the cash for the VEBA, though.

 

This Forum is for Ford Employees Only!

This forum is for active and retired Ford employees only! Non-Ford employees must use the other forums. Failure to comply will result in account suspension.

[tall1690]

if we all vote no it will pass anyway that is just the way the UAW DOES IT NOW IT PASSED BY 2% 49 to 51

just stop vote no

[theycandothat]

if this is all we have to give up to make the government and company happy, so be it, its not bad, as long as they did not cut our healthcare any more and they did not touch the retirees or our pay, this is nothing that we can't get back when good times start again, which seem to be right around the corner. my vote is yes if that is all that is affecting us.

Do you seriously believe the company will be happy with these concessions. They want more, and wages and health care are next. It is just a matter of time before they get it with our spineless Union Officials. How many of them have taken a hit. I don't see any of them calling Marvin.

[2 seater]

Do you seriously believe the company will be happy with these concessions. They want more, and wages and health care are next. It is just a matter of time before they get it with our spineless Union Officials. How many of them have taken a hit. I don't see any of them calling Marvin.

We were told today by our local union at LAP that these concessions concerning sub do not apply to Ford, GM & Chrysler only. We are losing 1 minute of break time, some holidays, cola will be frozen & whatever they agree to on the VEBA, he said we will not lose any sub pay. True? time will tell but thats what we were told by the local acting chairman. Our local is very good about info normally.

[theycandothat]

We were told today by our local union at LAP that these concessions concerning sub do not apply to Ford, GM & Chrysler only. We are losing 1 minute of break time, some holidays, cola will be frozen & whatever they agree to on the VEBA, he said we will not lose any sub pay. True? time will tell but thats what we were told by the local acting chairman. Our local is very good about info normally.

The problem I have is this. These concessions will not make the company profitable. They are nickle and dimeing us until nothing is left. Every year we will be giving up concessions. Get used to it