WHY do the European's seem to get it? but not US

[Ford Jellymoulds]

We would all be driving big V8s if we had the choice, but we have had our wings clipped by high fuel taxes. Our fuel prices would be cheaper than yours if our government removed the two Fuel Duty Tax & Value Added Taxes we have to pay them on every litre of fuel.

 

 

That why we have always loved our little 1700cc 4 pot in-line high performance Ford cars in Europe that can pack a 560 BHP 186 mph punch.

http://www.geocities.com/zakcapriturbo/tech.html

 

Cold beer makes my teeth go on edge just thinking about it.

[Deanh]

We would all be driving big V8s if we had the choice, but we have had our wings clipped by high fuel taxes. Our fuel prices would be cheaper than yours if our government removed the two Fuel Duty Tax & Value Added Taxes we have to pay them on every litre of fuel.

 

 

That why we have always loved our little 1700cc 4 pot in-line high performance Ford cars in Europe that can pack a 560 BHP 186 mph punch.

http://www.geocities.com/zakcapriturbo/tech.html

 

Cold beer makes my teeth go on edge just thinking about it.

those are "teeth"..........

[twmalonehunter]

Sup,

 

"European cars are no better or worse. Cars are cars, the driver and the maintenance make the difference. I drove a 2003 BMW 540i for the past 6 years. I have a total of 101,000 kms. After adding my service bills together, I have put $17,683.91 into repairs that were not warranty covered. I got a lemon and it happens. "

 

 

No I don't think you got a lemon. BMW does not make a very reliable car, at least they didn't in the 1990's and early 2000's. My 99 540i was wrought with problems, repair costs and subpar workmanship, especially the interior. But it did run like a bat out of hell and handled superbly. I do work for the local BMW dealer, and trust me, those cars break a lot, same as Mercedes Benz. It's just that most of the people that buy them don't care, it's a status thing. Me, I bought a low mileage example in the 540i because I wanted a true sports sedan, and I got burned! Lesson learned.

Edited February 27, 2009 by twmalonehunter

[Critic]

OK I now put it to you.. hehehehhe.... How do you think Ford's lineup would look with BOTH the Mustang and that little scooter trashing all the wannabe imports for the ricer-racer crowd? Some new Kid rolls up to a light in that and watch the chins drop.

 

That's where your market is.. the young males will eat that RS up and it's serious competition to the imports. You capture them with that RS and then they move INTO the mustang and when they have grey hair their driving a LINCOLN..

 

Send me my commission check monthly.

[Critic]

Hey Jelly, taxes are trying to rise here also.. A Republican in the current administration floated the idea of Taxing us on how many miles we drive.

 

Certain cites play the games too, New york City has some deals going, I understand those, all building's and roads if you can't keep the cars out you'd never get home from work. London has the same sort of taxes too I believe.

 

Still. the long term trend will be towards small cars.. It happened in the 80's and man did people complain, once oil went down they were right back into the big ones again.

 

That RS is a killer. I as a single man, and with a small income would jump into it. NOT in that colour BTW.

[Extreme4x4]

My answer to all of this is................... ok, whatever.

 

Europeans allowed their governments to bestow those ridiculous taxes upon them.................. and justified it with the misguided notion that "hey, they must know what is right, they are the government."

 

Here in the land of the "semi-free," politicians know that if they were to try to raise gasoline taxes by $2.00-3.00 a gallon, that they would never hold public office again in their lifetime.

 

That said, even when gas is over $4.00 a gallon, once again.................. I will continue to drive my 10mpg V10 F250 Crewcab 4x4................. well, until we get it paid off, and we can buy our new 365hp SHO. :D (hubby is already picking out personalized plates for it. LOL)

[Deanh]

My answer to all of this is................... ok, whatever.

 

Europeans allowed their governments to bestow those ridiculous taxes upon them.................. and justified it with the misguided notion that "hey, they must know what is right, they are the government."

 

Here in the land of the "semi-free," politicians know that if they were to try to raise gasoline taxes by $2.00-3.00 a gallon, that they would never hold public office again in their lifetime.

 

That said, even when gas is over $4.00 a gallon, once again.................. I will continue to drive my 10mpg V10 F250 Crewcab 4x4................. well, until we get it paid off, and we can buy our new 365hp SHO. :D (hubby is already picking out personalized plates for it. LOL)

LOL!...speaking of which i ordered plates for the Motorcycle...origionally it was PSTA NE1 ( pasta anyone...Italian bike ) except the plate arrived sans space between the A and N, became PSTANE1 ( Pee stain 1 ) so that was the end of that...now in reference to my Kiwi up bringing I have ONLYEWE coming....and a surround that says So many sheep, So little time.....ALWAYS worth a chuckle in the rear veiw mirror.....

[jpd80]

That said, even when gas is over $4.00 a gallon, once again.................. I will continue to drive my 10mpg V10 F250 Crewcab 4x4................. well, until we get it paid off, and we can buy our new 365hp SHO. :D (hubby is already picking out personalized plates for it. LOL)

Good luck with that, the SHO sounds like a fine car, what color are you thinking?

 

If the F Trucks get really efficient engines, would that interest you or any of your friends?

[Edstock]

That RS is a killer. I as a single man, and with a small income would jump into it. NOT in that colour BTW.

 

You'll have to spend a lot more money to get something that will do the twisties faster. Apparently, the RS will be on Nurburgring as soon as the snow disappears. I wonder what the lap times will be.

[Deanh]

interesting, cars are adapting to the times and we are adapting to the cars....downsizing is here i think...so is the focus on efficiency...overindulgence will soon only be for those that deem it necessary to draw attention to themselves....

[AGR]

Although I do love this country, america ranks 16th freest country on this list according to the Democracy Index of the Economist’s Intelligence Unit. Most americans don't want to drive a Focus, but then again they listen to rush Limbaugh in vast numbers, watch NASCAR more than Formula one, drink coors light and watch american Idol sooooo.

I drive a Focus, love F1, and love to listen to Rush. So put away the broad brush...

[SkapeGote]

Sup..... Again,

 

I find a lot of people think Euromobiles are better handlers, and out of the box most are. Alternatively I have read that the 2010 Mustang is hitting as high as 0.95g on the skidpad, I personally consider that a pretty good handling car. Mind you, that is with the optional "Track Pack". For reference though, I currently own a 1993 Mustang with a straight axle outback and when Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords did an article on it, eeked out a solid 1.05 on the pad.

 

Now I modified it myself, but I paid 1800 for the car, 5000 for the engine and 1300 for the rear end. She out runs and out handles most cars on the road and all for less than 9 grand. Again performance an ability is as much driver as car.

 

On a personal note I prefer a V8 to a turbo 4 or 5 or 6 cylinder engine, but there is nothing wrong with a good turbo or supercharger setup. I try not to limit myself by brand. The RS is a very exciting looking sport compact, I just have problem spending that kind of money on a car that weighs less and is almost a whole second slower to 60 mph with about the same power. The real test will be when, and if, it comes stateside. American modders are different, and the results could be phenomenal.

 

 

Skape

[jpd80]

interesting, cars are adapting to the times and we are adapting to the cars....downsizing is here i think...so is the focus on efficiency...overindulgence will soon only be for those that deem it necessary to draw attention to themselves....

Dean the concept of internal space Vs external size, car makers are stretching smaller cars

to make them almost the next size up the range, do buyers accept or miss that concept?

[Deanh]

Sup..... Again,

 

I find a lot of people think Euromobiles are better handlers, and out of the box most are. Alternatively I have read that the 2010 Mustang is hitting as high as 0.95g on the skidpad, I personally consider that a pretty good handling car. Mind you, that is with the optional "Track Pack". For reference though, I currently own a 1993 Mustang with a straight axle outback and when Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords did an article on it, eeked out a solid 1.05 on the pad.

 

Now I modified it myself, but I paid 1800 for the car, 5000 for the engine and 1300 for the rear end. She out runs and out handles most cars on the road and all for less than 9 grand. Again performance an ability is as much driver as car.

 

On a personal note I prefer a V8 to a turbo 4 or 5 or 6 cylinder engine, but there is nothing wrong with a good turbo or supercharger setup. I try not to limit myself by brand. The RS is a very exciting looking sport compact, I just have problem spending that kind of money on a car that weighs less and is almost a whole second slower to 60 mph with about the same power. The real test will be when, and if, it comes stateside. American modders are different, and the results could be phenomenal.

 

 

Skape

welcome to the 20th century scape....look how far we have come???????? since 93........sigh, I shed a tear for my 88 5.0 notchback...lightweight V8 fun, gas was cheap and the WINDOW sticker was 13 grand loaded.........

[Deanh]

Dean the concept of internal space Vs external size, car makers are stretching smaller cars

to make them almost the next size up the range, do buyers accept or miss that concept?

sincerely, at least here I think people relate EXTERIOR size to interior size and "upmarket"....( should I mention all the Panther loyalists that tout the same points? )

[jpd80]

How much elsewhere? Toyota = number 1 brand in Australia

I'll tell you why, all the local Fords do OK but the imported Fords sell very badly.

[Critic]

sincerely, at least here I think people relate EXTERIOR size to interior size and "upmarket"....( should I mention all the Panther loyalists that tout the same points? )

I don't know what or why, but my MKX seems huge on the inside.. they really crowded that 3.5L in sideways and made a lot of room for feet in the front. The backseat has a lot too, Now I don't have a lot of people to haul, but if it was smaller on the inside, maybe I wouldn't like it as much. Looking at it from the outside it doesn't seem as big. Guess it's just me.

[Deanh]

I don't know what or why, but my MKX seems huge on the inside.. they really crowded that 3.5L in sideways and made a lot of room for feet in the front. The backseat has a lot too, Now I don't have a lot of people to haul, but if it was smaller on the inside, maybe I wouldn't like it as much. Looking at it from the outside it doesn't seem as big. Guess it's just me.

I have NO issues with drivin a smaller car, feel quite at home, then again i learned in small cars and in NZ thats the norm anyways....but, the Mini behind a suburban kinda looks like the Chevy had a bowel movement. Will be REALLY interesting to see the downsizing effect a few years from now, i am already seeing Expedition owners buying Flex's.......

[RichardJensen]

For months it was nothing in the media, but WHERE THE F ARE THE SMALL CARS DETROIT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUILDING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS!

And yet, true success for Toyota and Honda didn't come until they built 'American' sized cars.

 

You can't even come close to making a living off compacts in the US, but inevitably when the market turns south, people get interested in them, and if you've been phoning it in for years, well there you are with your phone in your hand and egg on your face.

[BORG]

Ford has not be neglecting the small car since the 2000 Ford Focus, when they were neglecting the Focus, they were neglecting everything as well!

[Deanh]

Ford has not be neglecting the small car since the 2000 Ford Focus, when they were neglecting the Focus, they were neglecting everything as well!

blame beancounting stockholders signing off....SOOOO glad that mentality seems to be gone

Edited February 28, 2009 by Deanh

[bifs66]

Over the last 49 years, our family has bought a ton of Ford products. During that time, we bought three Fords that were mostly designed/made outside of America (or mostly outside). One of those was a 91 Escort GT 1.8 DOHC (based on Mazda); while the other two were based on European designs....a 1974 2800cc Capri, and a 2000 SVT Countour (Mondao). The Japanese based Escort GT was a great car and is still going strong (still in the family) with most of its original mechanical parts intact. It was a solid and pleasing car. It seems impossible to wear out any part of it. On the other hand, the two European based cars were great performers (for their time); but were very unsatisfying. Big and little problems seemed to constantly crop up to annoy us. The Capri was the absoutely the worst with stuff going wrong right from the beginning and ending up with extreme rust problems after a few years.

In spite of our experience history, I would not hesitate to buy the Euro Focus RS if it were offered here. That car would do so much for the "spirit" of Ford in this country. It says so much about Ford's technology and ability to lead.

[jon_the_limey]

I can remember back to the 1st. gas crisis then the 2nd. one and now this meltdown. It wasn't until after Reagan said their was plenty of oil for hundreds of years that car size zoomed in my mind.

 

I couldn't see a Focus thread/article so I thought you'd like to see that In Europe, they really appreciate a Ford.

 

New Focus RS stages a coup

 

This meltdown isn't just here in the states, it's actually worldwide and given a few years,, a few Auto Companies won't be around... I think those guys in the glass tower know a thing or 2 their aren't saying to the rest of us.

 

Ford, unfortunately, doesn't have that great a name in Europe. And whilst over the last few years there has been some excellent cars that have been well received by the press, there is still a massive perception lag amongst a very large proportion of the populous.

 

People will always bring up anecdotes that their 3rd cousin once removed had a terrible experience with Ford over 10 years ago. Also with many "car freaks" in Europe perceived quality always get mixed up with "real" quailty. If a car doesn't have the soft touch & painted/chromed plastics and the even panel gaps then it will be automatically rubbished. Because of this german cars always seem to get wanked over in both the press and on the streets.

 

In the UK on some forums there are always a number of accusations that the press has been bought off when a Ford has been praised, even Clarkson is accused of Ford bias in the UK!

 

The key is that they must maintain their existing customer base for Fords in Europe within established markets (UK/Germany/Italy) and any expansion will need to come from elsewhere (Eastern europe and Russia where such perceptions are not ingrained). Any increase in market share for Fords in western europe is especially hard fought.

Edited February 28, 2009 by jon_the_limey

[Biker16]

Gas prices due to taxes. They allowed themselves to be forced into smaller cars by allowing their governments to tax the living daylights out of petrol. I fear we are headed down the same path here. It's a matter of civil liberty at that point.

 

 

I never knew that cheap gas was a right guaraunteed under the bill of rights. We created CAFE, they created higher fuel prices to fund mass transit and encourage people to drive less. Higher gas have had the effect that CAFE has never had. stop people from driving, cause people to to drive less, and force people to drive more efficent cars.

[RichardJensen]

they created higher fuel prices to fund mass transit and encourage people to drive less.

Yikes, Biker. I think you could fit all of Rome and Paris in the Los Angeles basin--and probably have room left over for Milan. The US is not Europe and it'll take a heckuva lot more than fuel taxes to turn the US into Europe.

 

Furthermore, Europe was penalizing power LONG before anyone in the US ever thought of it, and it was to protect home-grown auto industries. The displacement tax was meant to disadvantage American imports over homegrown products with smaller engines.

 

Then you have all the rationing that continued long after WWII.

 

People forget, Europe was a wasteland after WWII. They were rationing sugar in Britain into the 50s (1953 to be precise). This was not a place which was going to be consuming a lot of anything.