diecaster Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 These scare tactics being used by the company are bad, but the union is doing the same thing and it is sad. Vote no and let them know your true feelings about being fucked!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 These scare tactics being used by the company are bad, but the union is doing the same thing and it is sad. Vote no and let them know your true feelings about being fucked!!!!!! YES, VOTE NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleu Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I don't see any other choice. Vote NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGAL68 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 These scare tactics being used by the company are bad, but the union is doing the same thing and it is sad. Vote no and let them know your true feelings about being fucked!!!!!! also dont let the dangling carrot change your vote either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteford Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 These scare tactics being used by the company are bad, but the union is doing the same thing and it is sad. Vote no and let them know your true feelings about being fucked!!!!!! It is sad when the union treats us like little kid and try's to tell us what to do. The scare tactics are BS. Vote on the information at hand. Do what you think it best for all members not just you and your home plant. Try and remember that the lower seniority workers will be hurt on this agrement the most. 5 to 10 years from now these people may be voting on concession for some of you the retiree. Me it will be NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 It is easier for the Corporation and the Government to scare us into submission than actually do anything positive and beneficial for the 'working class'.We all get one vote.It is a personal decision.I vote NO.The USA is leaning towards Socialism for the masses and an elite ruling class of people who 'live in a different world' than the rest of us.The manufacturing base of this nation will not be allowed to disappear.Besides go ahead and vote YES I am telling ya from my own experience that Ford does not appreciate it.GM and Chrysler restructure and the employees give up even more than us,,,Ford and the UAW will be on our backs all over again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatrockbacktovandyke Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 It is easier for the Corporation and the Government to scare us into submission than actually do anything positive and beneficial for the 'working class'.We all get one vote.It is a personal decision.I vote NO.The USA is leaning towards Socialism for the masses and an elite ruling class of people who 'live in a different world' than the rest of us.The manufacturing base of this nation will not be allowed to disappear.Besides go ahead and vote YES I am telling ya from my own experience that Ford does not appreciate it.GM and Chrysler restructure and the employees give up even more than us,,,Ford and the UAW will be on our backs all over again! Fatso, You said it best brother. No matter the turn out in two months time they will want more cause big brother and lil brother got more... It will never be enough. Think of all the yrs that went into getting these things we hold so dear. They are being thrown away in a blink of an eye. And to any retiree... Think back to when you were low in the 70's and eighties. now think of when your gone and can't vote on things like this.. those low seniority people that survive this will not forget your actions on this vote either way you cast your vote.. Its a bad deal all around.. Those that are retired and those that are just trying to get a chance at retirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vito Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yes VOTE NO and what is the alternative to that?????Use your damn heads, this is not the first time the UAW has had concessions, oh and BTW we bounced back fine after those concessions. Lets vote no and leave it the hands of someone else, that makes a lot of sense. This agreement should protect all until 2011 when the recession is expected to end, as someone said, vote based on everyone, not just you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasyfrank Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Vote NO!!! It will pass anyway...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Fatso, You said it best brother. No matter the turn out in two months time they will want more cause big brother and lil brother got more... It will never be enough. Think of all the yrs that went into getting these things we hold so dear. They are being thrown away in a blink of an eye. And to any retiree... Think back to when you were low in the 70's and eighties. now think of when your gone and can't vote on things like this.. those low seniority people that survive this will not forget your actions on this vote either way you cast your vote.. Its a bad deal all around.. Those that are retired and those that are just trying to get a chance at retirement You obviously didn't get a highlight package fatrok , retirees were no touched!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condor Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yeah vote no and a bankruptsy judge can decide what your pay and benefits will be. Don't be fucking stupid. You don't take the company to the mat when its allready on its back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diecaster Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yeah vote no and a bankruptsy judge can decide what your pay and benefits will be. Don't be fucking stupid. You don't take the company to the mat when its allready on its back. Too bad we have another scared employee. They have accomplished their mission on you. Don't be a pussy take a stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixom22 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yes VOTE NO and what is the alternative to that?????Use your damn heads, this is not the first time the UAW has had concessions, oh and BTW we bounced back fine after those concessions. Lets vote no and leave it the hands of someone else, that makes a lot of sense. This agreement should protect all until 2011 when the recession is expected to end, as someone said, vote based on everyone, not just you. Protect all until 2011, are you kidding the following Monday after you Vote yes to protect me. Myself and 350 other tradesmen are on ILO with not much chance of ever being called back. Vote the way you want but don't lie to your self thinking you are protecting me or the hundreds of other tradesmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) You obviously didn't get a highlight package fatrok , retirees were no touched!! Not true, the long term effect of an underfunded VEBA is a reduction in medical coverage levels, and the implementation of higher co-pays. So essentially yes the retirees are/will be effected by this agreement in the future. Edited February 28, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTP'er Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Isn't it illegal to fund a pension or even a VEBA with company stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Not true, the long term effect of an underfunded VEBA is a reduction in medical coverage levels, and the implementation of higher co-pays. So essentially yes the retirees are/will be effected by this agreement in the future. Hey furious the amount that is getting out in is the same as it was in 2007!! Are you saying it was underfunded in 2007?? There is also a stop gap of 75 million in the first 3 years if the VEBA is less that expected. Also they will be able to sell the stock immediately so that they can diversify if they need to. There is a pre set amount for the stock amount also, so if it is higher (good possibility) then we still get it at the lower price!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Isn't it illegal to fund a pension or even a VEBA with company stock? The VEBA was mandated by the Gov. to be 50% stock or equity!! Haven't you been watching TV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary112 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yeah vote no and a bankruptsy judge can decide what your pay and benefits will be. Don't be fucking stupid. You don't take the company to the mat when its allready on its back. Whether you vote yes or no, if they are gonna go bancrupt they will anyway. Voting yes will only open the door for more concessions. Vote NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Whether you vote yes or no, if they are gonna go bancrupt they will anyway. Voting yes will only open the door for more concessions. Vote NO! It is not Ford itself that is the problem....it is GM or Chrysler.....their bankruptcy will drive us into bankruptcy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standup Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yes VOTE NO and what is the alternative to that?????Use your damn heads, this is not the first time the UAW has had concessions, oh and BTW we bounced back fine after those concessions. Lets vote no and leave it the hands of someone else, that makes a lot of sense. This agreement should protect all until 2011 when the recession is expected to end, as someone said, vote based on everyone, not just you. You really need to do your homework. I suggest you look up on Ford's company website and look at their annual reports. As of Dec 2008, they have $24 Billion, and they are going through alot of cash, but they are not going bankrupt anytime soon, at least not the next year, as which is not the case for the other 2 companies. We have lost close to 50,000 Ford-UAW workers since Dec 2005. We need to stand up and say no, not to say that maybe next year, if things don't impove that we will need to take concessions, but let's not give before we have to. Don't believe what you hear, until you do your homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 You really need to do your homework. I suggest you look up on Ford's company website and look at their annual reports. As of Dec 2008, they have $24 Billion, and they are going through alot of cash, but they are not going bankrupt anytime soon, at least not the next year, as which is not the case for the other 2 companies. We have lost close to 50,000 Ford-UAW workers since Dec 2005. We need to stand up and say no, not to say that maybe next year, if things don't impove that we will need to take concessions, but let's not give before we have to. Don't believe what you hear, until you do your homework. It is nice to know someone else has our back and can look at Ford's financials. Nice to see you are on top of it Standup! Way to take a stance on all the info Ford has given you!! Did you sit with their financial advisors or with Bill himself to get your info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vito Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) You really need to do your homework. I suggest you look up on Ford's company website and look at their annual reports. As of Dec 2008, they have $24 Billion, and they are going through alot of cash, but they are not going bankrupt anytime soon, at least not the next year, as which is not the case for the other 2 companies. We have lost close to 50,000 Ford-UAW workers since Dec 2005. We need to stand up and say no, not to say that maybe next year, if things don't impove that we will need to take concessions, but let's not give before we have to. Don't believe what you hear, until you do your homework. I understand that and have done my homework. I know Ford status. Unfortunately it is pattern bargaining. Think about how bad we would have taken concessions if they went to GM or Chrysler first. As far as Ford they are trying to protect their image, believe me they are in bad shape. It is a sales tool, if people think you are ok they are more likely to buy your product. They are portraying this image, believe me 24 Billion aint shit for a car company, especially when you are losing money every month. Edited February 28, 2009 by Vito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEagle Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I understand that and have done my homework. I know Ford status. Unfortunately it is pattern bargaining. Think about how bad we would have taken concessions if they went to GM or Chrysler first. As far as Ford they are trying to protect their image, believe me they are in bad shape. It is a sales tool, if people think you are ok they are more likely to buy your product. They are portraying this image, believe me 24 Billion aint shit for a car company, especially when you are losing money every month. I completly agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Hey furious the amount that is getting out in is the same as it was in 2007!! Are you saying it was underfunded in 2007?? There is also a stop gap of 75 million in the first 3 years if the VEBA is less that expected. Also they will be able to sell the stock immediately so that they can diversify if they need to. There is a pre set amount for the stock amount also, so if it is higher (good possibility) then we still get it at the lower price!! I have my personal opinions as to whether or not it was funded properly with the initial commitments in the 2007 agreement. Only time will tell, but yes it is disturbing that the government mandated 50% of the funding in stock. However at the rate the stock is currently selling for, there is nothing but upwards potential! Good luck to all the retirees. If there is a shortfall it will end exactly as I have stated! If Ford's stock recovers it will be a non issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imdevo Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I understand that and have done my homework. I know Ford status. Unfortunately it is pattern bargaining. Think about how bad we would have taken concessions if they went to GM or Chrysler first. As far as Ford they are trying to protect their image, believe me they are in bad shape. It is a sales tool, if people think you are ok they are more likely to buy your product. They are portraying this image, believe me 24 Billion aint shit for a car company, especially when you are losing money every month. If 24 Billion ain't shit for a car company, then how is us giving them about $600 MILLION in savings going to help the bottom line? The cuts and give-backs that are being asked of us seem more like "sticking it to us" rather than saving the company from bankruptcy. We haven't had an hourly raise in roughly 6 years, back when we mistakenly agreed to a lump-sum bonus rather that an hourly percentage raise. Now we won't even get the "bonus"/raise. This whole situation sucks. I've seen what bankruptcy does to workers; when Northwest Airlines went through it here in MN the hourly got screwed. There are no easy answers. Either we say screw them and hope to call their bluff, or we hope to live and fight for another day. Just seems like the IUAW could have done a better job negotiating. These concessions affect us more adversly than they do to help the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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