Ford to idle Wayne plant

[RichardJensen]

I suppose, alternatively, Magna may end up supplying the engine/transmission as a powerpack.

[theoldwizard]

Magna has said that they have the "capability" to build a "complete car". I'm not saying that this is going to happen, just that Magna claims they can do it.

[rkisler]

I suppose, alternatively, Magna may end up supplying the engine/transmission as a powerpack.

 

I think supplying modules would make sense. Engine/Transmission/control unit/batteries. And of course, they will all hit the same hardpoints as the conventional powertrain.

 

Personally, I would like to see this model integrated on the main line, so the BEV just becomes a powertrain choice and volume can be turned up if it sells well.

[rkisler]

Magna has said that they have the "capability" to build a "complete car". I'm not saying that this is going to happen, just that Magna claims they can do it.

 

The do in Austria. Magna has lusted to get into the auto assembly business in NA also, and has tried on numerous occasions to pull together a bunch of projects to get enough critical mass to get something going. So far, no joy.

 

Final assembly in NA (for the D3) is a very sensitive UAW issue.

 

I'm thinking they made a pitch to build the Focus BEV, but I don't have any inside knowledge.

[RichardJensen]

I'm thinking they made a pitch to build the Focus BEV, but I don't have any inside knowledge.

I don't think that would fly.

 

Because of different stuff under the hood, Ford should be paying them to assemble the whole car? Not likely.

[MTPwife]

I was laid off from Michigan Truck January 20th indefinitely. On February 23 I was picked up by Wayne Isa. Does this mean I will have home plant return to work rights? Their is still fellow trades working at MTP.

 

What the hubby was told at the meeting before the vote for the concessions is that MTP is no more & it is now MAP thus no return to home plant rights. You & my Hubby are now ISA. Does'nt seem fair & it will certainly get interesting when the move of Focus production goes to MAP. Low seniority for local 900 are going to have some stressful times when the move to MAP comes.

[2b2]

Magna has said that they have the "capability" to build a "complete car". I'm not saying that this is going to happen, just that Magna claims they can do it.

The do in Austria. Magna has lusted to get into the auto assembly business in NA also, and has tried on numerous occasions to pull together a bunch of projects to get enough critical mass to get something going. So far, no joy.

 

Final assembly in NA (for the D3) is a very sensitive UAW issue.

 

I'm thinking they made a pitch to build the Focus BEV, but I don't have any inside knowledge.

 

if you don't mind reading elsewhere (FmcNews)

I got a number of article quotes & their links in one thread about Magna & a BEV Focus they built

[jpd80]

A plug in electric will be much cheaper to buy than a hybrid:

The Magna-built Ford Focus BEV concept is based on the current North American version of the Focus

 

Ford confirmed at last month’s Detroit Auto Show that it would launch an all-electric compact car in 2011, co-developed with automotive parts supplier and independent vehicle manufacturer Magna International. Today new details on Ford's efforts to but electric wheels on the ground have emerged, revealing the car will be based around the new global Focus platform, and will have a range of 100mi (160km) per charge.

 

The onboard battery charger will be capable of plugging into a 110 or 220-volt outlets, and charge times will vary from about 6 to 12 hours depending on the outlet type used. The decision to stray from the plug-in hybrid technology already being developed at Ford (for use on an Escape platform) and favored by rival General Motors, was based in limiting cost and complexity. The plan is to have the car on the market by 2011...

[rkisler]

I don't think that would fly.

 

Because of different stuff under the hood, Ford should be paying them to assemble the whole car? Not likely.

 

I understand, but...

 

Although the Ford situation is different, for some years the Mercedes AWD products were produced solely at the Magna-Steyr plant in Austria. And I don't mean the bodies were produced elsewhere and shipped, I mean from the ground up. So even though the RWD and AWD products looked identical in the showroom and have very few changes for AWD, they came from 2 different sources.

 

Magna has been trying for years to break the assembly barrier in NA. So while it might not be a good financial decision by itself, I only speculated that Magna would be aggressive and make a pitch to build it because I've been the recipient of previous pitches in the past. But that also was in a world where Ford's assembly plants were less flexible, and a program like this would have been impossible in a plant like Wayne.

 

Magna brought the idea to Ford, so they're going to want something. And that something is more than just being paid for the engineering. So the minimum they'll probably get (as you mentioned) is the build of the unique subassemblies. Probably in Canada, but there is plenty of space in Michigan if they want to move closer.

[chris532]

In the highlights of the new contract it mentions something about "Sourcing" of alternative energy vehicles at MAP. Don't know if that means in or out sourcing.

[rkisler]

In the highlights of the new contract it mentions something about "Sourcing" of alternative energy vehicles at MAP. Don't know if that means in or out sourcing.

 

That's what this conversation is about. The wording I got was:

 

"In-house production of advanced technology vehicle for Michigan Assembly Plant. More details on this action will come in the months ahead."

[battyr]

A plug in electric will be much cheaper to buy than a hybrid:

 

Most of the comes from the battery. A BEV needs a much bigger battery, depending on the range.

 

It all depends on how much the engine and transmission costs in a regular Focus and how much the battery will drop by.

[ds91776]

This is a really interesting discussion, especially hearing from you guys inside the offices and ( even better) inside the plants themselves. Every one of you guys deserves a huge pat on the back and kudos from me.

 

Anyway, people have mentioned what kind of C2 vehicles could be built in the US, so I thought I would try my hand at some guesses.

 

FORD:

 

-Focus 4 door

-Focus 5 door

-Focus 3 door (very likely)

-Focus wagon (very unlikely)

-Focus based coupe/sport hatchback (unlikely but possible)

-Focus CC (unlikely, but who knows?)

-Focus C-MAX (or other name)

-Transit Connect

-Escape (merge program for 3rd gen Escape and 2nd gen Kuga)

 

Mercury:

 

-Small Sedan (definate...possibly called Mystique or Messenger?)

-Mariner

-Mercury C-MAX (Mercury could get this Mini-minivan instead of Ford)

-Cougar (Ford of Europes's upcomming small coupe/notchback could be a Mercury I am thinking) or it could be a version of the Focus CC.

 

Lincoln:

 

-MKC hatchback (almost certain for production)

-MKG (3rd gen Escape/Mariner/Kuga small luxury CUV

 

AND....it is possible that Ford could build vehicles for Mazda in their plants...why not? Mazda 3 global production is already very tight, so why not shift North American production to North America, or at least the sedan version or something. That could easily add 70,000 units or more to the total C1 total, plus the upcoming CX-4, C1 based small CUV that will replace the Tribute in a few years time could be built alongside the Escape/Mariner/MKG, adding tens of thousands of units to that plant as well.

 

Am I forgetting any other likely C2 variants?

Edited March 13, 2009 by ds91776

[Cougarpower]

But Guys I think Ford will go the same way they do the Hybrid fusion and Escape and if Im correct the hermosillo plant has the suppliers working inside the plant

[RichardJensen]

Most of the comes from the battery. A BEV needs a much bigger battery, depending on the range.

 

It all depends on how much the engine and transmission costs in a regular Focus and how much the battery will drop by.

More moving parts, more software for a hybrid. A full electric has just the electric motor and battery pack, as well as the cables connecting them.

 

Does anyone know if a torque-multiplying transmission type thingy will be in the BEV?

[Gnostic]

More moving parts, more software for a hybrid. A full electric has just the electric motor and battery pack, as well as the cables connecting them.

 

Does anyone know if a torque-multiplying transmission type thingy will be in the BEV?

 

 

I seem to recall they use a one speed transmission.

[Pioneer]

But Guys I think Ford will go the same way they do the Hybrid fusion and Escape and if Im correct the hermosillo plant has the suppliers working inside the plant

 

The Escape is not built in Mexico.

[jpd80]

The Escape is not built in Mexico.

I'm sure Cougarpower didn't mean it like that.

I think he was giving two separate examples of regular/hybrid vehicles being built in the one complex

and suggesting that a supplier could work inside the plants like at Hermosillo.

 

Does that make better sense?

Edited March 13, 2009 by jpd80

[Pioneer]

I'm sure Cougarpower didn't mean it like that.

I think he was giving two separate examples of regular/hybrid vehicles being built in the one complex

and suggesting that a supplier could work inside the plants like at Hermosillo.

 

Does that make better sense?

 

His post suggests he doesn't know very much about what products are made where, and how they are produced.

 

Kind of like a lot of people on this site, actually.

[jpd80]

How Ford will set up the electric Focus, will they bring in a supplier or do the work in house?

I hope they do it themselves with Ford workers and keep the supplier down the road.

Edited March 13, 2009 by jpd80

[Pioneer]

bring in a supplier

 

Not a chance in hell, if the UAW has anything to say about it.

[Biker16]

Logically, one would assume that LAP will be idled when the new Explorer (slated for Chicago) is released. Likely, IMO, early next year.

 

Also retooling is presently underway at Michigan Truck (Ford has even started referring to it as 'Michigan Assembly'). Michigan Truck was, if memory serves, closed in the last quarter or late Q3 last year.

 

The plans, however, should admit for C/CD flexing.

 

 

 

Also, Ford is not going to abandon their small car focus--not under current management at least. That's been the cardinal sin of the Detroit industry--the tendency to concentrate more and more resources on single sectors that are momentarily popular (minivans, pickups, SUVs)

 

If you think it thru. logically the line between C and CD is blurred with the C based Mazda5 having longer wheelbase than some C/D cars.

 

The nice thing about using former truck plant is that they are soo large. making it easier to build everything at one plant.

[Biker16]

Somewhat similar -- two assembly plants that are in very close proximity.

 

One of the keys to Wayne/MTP that comes through in the announcement. When Wayne went to the Mazda-designed "CT20" Escort, the plant went to a "quasi-Japanese" process. So they added an integrated stamping facility. Unfortunately, they were cramped for space, so the stamping and body shop is on the south side of some RR tracks. The metal is stamped and bodies assembled then they go on a conveyor over to the north side for paint, chassis, trim, and final.

 

In the new arrangement, it looks like Ford will keep the stamping and body shop, then conveyor the cars over to MTP for the paint, chassis, trim, and final.

 

Like Louisville, there is certainly a lot of capability at MTP to do pretty much what you want. Since there were large trucks produced there, the e-coat dip tanks and paint shop can handle anything from a car to a larger-cube vehicle with no sweat. And the rest of the operation is probably going to be all-new anyway.

 

When the change to the new C2 happens, a lot of the cost will actually be in the body shop. Biker has mentioned that the present body shop is not so flexible. He is right, and the conveyor causes a lot of undesirable in-process inventory, so I'm going to guess that the body shop (and also stamping?) for the C2 will be moved across the tracks to MTP. That would allow a seamless move from today's Focus to the C2. If the body shop stays where it is (for cost reasons), then there could continue to be flexibility issues.

 

As for what happens to Wayne assembly, my best guess is it remains idle. If Ford were to really establish some traction in small cars, or if other conditions caused volume to go through the roof and exceed MTP and Louisville capacity, Ford could then consider firing up Wayne again. But that would be expensive, and would result in a lot of hiring, so Ford would have to be very sure before taking this kind of action. I don't see it for the near future. One step at a time. First MTP, then Louisville.

 

**Edit -- I reread the Freep article. It looks like the stamping and some subassemblies will take place in the present body shop. (Sub assemblies can include things like doors, front quarters, etc). But the implication is that the actual body shop will be at MTP. Good solution. You avoid the huge expense of finding space and moving those heavy presses, and it should allow for the establishment of a flexible body shop at MTP.

 

**Second edit -- I just got news that Ford would build an advanced technology vehicle at MAP (the new name for MTP/Wayne). So I guess the electric Focus will be build in-house?

 

First The body shop is ALL NEW at MTP and fully flex, on the same side as the trim line. The stamping plant is still across the bridge, but I can imagine them using the stamping plants in a more flexible fashion, and WAP as a staging For MTP/MAP.

[RichardJensen]

His post suggests he doesn't know very much about what products are made where, and how they are produced.

 

Kind of like a lot of people on this site, actually.

That's not what I got out of it. I considered it a poorly punctuated way of saying, "I think suppliers work inside the Hermosillo assembly plant"

[Pioneer]

That's not what I got out of it. I considered it a poorly punctuated way of saying, "I think suppliers work inside the Hermosillo assembly plant"

 

 

Read it again.

 

the same way they do the Hybrid fusion and Escape

 

He is lumping both together. The way it looks to me is, he thinks they are both produced in the same plant, by the same people. Thus he says:

 

and if Im correct the hermosillo plant has the suppliers working inside the plant

 

 

He thinks both the Escape and Fusion are both partially assembled by suppliers.

 

And, if I'm wrong, it's not my fault he doesn't know how to form sentences, and punctuate them properly.