REPORT: Escape puts Ford back atop Cash For Clunkers sales pileup

[TomServo92]

Link

[RangerM]

Link

This is getting G-D confusing. Why can't they just say if it's got the word "Focus" on it, it counts as a Ford Focus, and "Escape" counts as a Ford Escape.

 

They count AWD, FWD, and Hybrid Escapes separately? Stupid.

[ford-boy]

The Edmunds list is COMPLETELY different than the list I saw on Fox News. Fox had Corrola first, Focus, Camry, Prius and Honda. What is the purpose of counting seperate models and not lumping all Escapes together. Unbievable!!

[FordBuyer]

Btw, the 2010 Escape is shipping. I checked out one at the Ford Dealer today and the V6 is now Flex Fuel as the Fusion V6 is. Flex Fuel badge on rear tailgate and on capless filler area. One downside is that the V6 Escape for 2010 dropped ONE mpg highway. The 4WD V6 only gets 23mpg highway instead of 24 as in 2009. Not sure why. Don't like that. Ford needs to keep improving fuel mileage every year. Hard to believe a heavy, bigger FWD Flex gets better fuel mileage than 4WD Escape that is much lighter.

[TomServo92]

Btw, the 2010 Escape is shipping. I checked out one at the Ford Dealer today and the V6 is now Flex Fuel as the Fusion V6 is. Flex Fuel badge on rear tailgate and on capless filler area. One downside is that the V6 Escape for 2010 dropped ONE mpg highway. The 4WD V6 only gets 23mpg highway instead of 24 as in 2009. Not sure why. Don't like that. Ford needs to keep improving fuel mileage every year. Hard to believe a heavy, bigger FWD Flex gets better fuel mileage than 4WD Escape that is much lighter.

 

But it gets 1MPG better in the city so the combined is still 20MPG.

[BORG]

Btw, the 2010 Escape is shipping. I checked out one at the Ford Dealer today and the V6 is now Flex Fuel as the Fusion V6 is. Flex Fuel badge on rear tailgate and on capless filler area. One downside is that the V6 Escape for 2010 dropped ONE mpg highway. The 4WD V6 only gets 23mpg highway instead of 24 as in 2009. Not sure why. Don't like that. Ford needs to keep improving fuel mileage every year. Hard to believe a heavy, bigger FWD Flex gets better fuel mileage than 4WD Escape that is much lighter.

 

I'm also told that the 2010 Escape has a backup camera.

[jasonj80]

This is getting G-D confusing. Why can't they just say if it's got the word "Focus" on it, it counts as a Ford Focus, and "Escape" counts as a Ford Escape.

 

They count AWD, FWD, and Hybrid Escapes separately? Stupid.

 

Not really, The program is working at getting sales started and helping dealers, but the dems wouldn't be able to say it's working when the number one vehicle is a SUV and number three and seven are full size pickup trucks. The Republicans would have had a field day with it and there would have been even more backlash with the program which already isn't popular with voters.

 

The dealers, unions and the industry in general needed the additional funding, as it is cheaper than bankruptcies and helps the economy as it gets factories running and helps the manufacturing numbers which helps consumer confidence numbers which helps the whole economy, cash for clunkers will have done more for the economy for a considerable less cost than any other government bailout program. But if it got out that Americans were just buying SUVs and Pickups the program would have been dead.

Edited August 8, 2009 by jasonj80

[94bronco]

The Edmunds list is the real list, The Government list is just a lie to fit their political agenda. They were seperating vehicles by engines and transmissions as different and hell probably even did it by color. It is good to see the Escape as number 1 as it must be a fairly profitable vehicle for Ford ( atleast compared to the Focus).

[RichardJensen]

I don't know if the program, in general, is unpopular with voters.

 

As to why each model is accounted for separately, that's simple.

 

C4C money is factored by mileage improvement, right?

 

Well, all 6 variants of the Escape get different mileage--in fact there may be 7 variants of the Escape (4x2 manual 4, 4x2 automatic 4, 4x4 automatic 4, 4x2 6, 4x4 6, 4x2 Hybrid, 4x4 Hybrid).

 

They aren't added together because that's just not how government works. I don't think there are darker political forces at work. Rather this is bureaucratic inertia.

 

The program coordinators identified x number of qualifying vehicles and dagnabbit, they're going to report the sales for each separate vehicle!

[jpd80]

The only thing is, will Ford dealer showrooms have time to regroup before the next $2 billion C4C hits.

I heard that Ford nearly sold out all inventory in the applicable C4C new car list.

Edited August 8, 2009 by jpd80

[FoMoCobra]

The Edmunds list makes much more sense. And it fits my own initial calculations more closely.

 

It was getting pretty dissapointing as I looked down the top 10 clunker list and found 8 Fords. And then I look over to the top 10 clunker buys and only 2 (maybe 3) Ford models populated the list. I was kind of shocked that all those Explorers got traded in for compact cars. Folks who owned Explorers still need the space which is why the Edmunds list makes a lot more sense.

 

The conspiracy theory is interesting as well... but i think i will go with Richard on this one. Its too obvious of an assessment to make falsely.

[RangerM]

The conspiracy theory is interesting as well... but i think i will go with Richard on this one. Its too obvious of an assessment to make falsely.

I'd be more inclined to go with Richard if the list actually said: "Ford Escape Hybrid" or "Ford Escape 4-Cyl FWD", but that is not how the information is being reported. I've only seen a list that says "Ford Escape".

 

That may not be conspiratorial (as in it has an agenda), but it is deceiving by virtue of omission.

[tzach]

I don't know if the program, in general, is unpopular with voters.

 

As to why each model is accounted for separately, that's simple.

 

C4C money is factored by mileage improvement, right?

 

Well, all 6 variants of the Escape get different mileage--in fact there may be 7 variants of the Escape (4x2 manual 4, 4x2 automatic 4, 4x4 automatic 4, 4x2 6, 4x4 6, 4x2 Hybrid, 4x4 Hybrid).

 

They aren't added together because that's just not how government works. I don't think there are darker political forces at work. Rather this is bureaucratic inertia.

 

The program coordinators identified x number of qualifying vehicles and dagnabbit, they're going to report the sales for each separate vehicle!

 

 

The models are counted seperately for political reasons, there is no doubt in my mind. I work in municipal government and even at that level the political bs is staggering to me, you would not believe what goes on for political reasons. I can only guess what goes on at the federal level. If you think for one second that the gov wants suv's and trucks on the list and not small cars I have a bridge i would like to sell you. On another note the fact that the c4c cars are destroyed is moronic, typical government stupidity. There are good cars being destroyed when there are poor people out there with far far worse cars who can not afford a new car who would benefit from these cars, then you could destroy those older cars with even worse milage and worse emissions. why didn't any of the morons in washington think of that. Simple it's all about selling the people on LOOK AT WHAT WE ARE DOING FOR YOU as long as the public buys that they could care less if it is true or not. And believe me THAT is true.

[FordBuyer]

The Edmunds list is the real list, The Government list is just a lie to fit their political agenda. They were seperating vehicles by engines and transmissions as different and hell probably even did it by color. It is good to see the Escape as number 1 as it must be a fairly profitable vehicle for Ford ( atleast compared to the Focus).

 

I should say so! The 2010 Escape Limited I saw at the Dealer listed for over $33,000! If Ford can't make money selling 4wd Escapes for $30,000+, then all hope is lost for Ford ever making a profit on auto operations consistently. Auto prices are getting out of hand IMO, especially when you consider how much the middle class has lost in their investments and their home prices. Ford needs an affordable Fiesta on the market quickly along with a new Focus that is value priced. IMO, the auto manufacturers that do best in future will be the ones who offer a great value lineup of vehicles that start under $20,000 and under $15,000 and even below that. The middle class is tapped out period.

[FordBuyer]

The models are counted seperately for political reasons, there is no doubt in my mind. I work in municipal government and even at that level the political bs is staggering to me, you would not believe what goes on for political reasons. I can only guess what goes on at the federal level. If you think for one second that the gov wants suv's and trucks on the list and not small cars I have a bridge i would like to sell you. On another note the fact that the c4c cars are destroyed is moronic, typical government stupidity. There are good cars being destroyed when there are poor people out there with far far worse cars who can not afford a new car who would benefit from these cars, then you could destroy those older cars with even worse milage and worse emissions. why didn't any of the morons in washington think of that. Simple it's all about selling the people on LOOK AT WHAT WE ARE DOING FOR YOU as long as the public buys that they could care less if it is true or not. And believe me THAT is true.

 

Uh come on, let's cut out the political BS. There are over 230 million vehicles out there and many of them are over 10 years old, and destroying 750,000 of them is not even a small dent. The used car lots and those being sold by private owners are as numerous as ever. I'm not personally benefitting from CARS and could care less, but if it helps out the auto manufacturers and puts some people back to work, then great. Already I read Ford is running three shifts at WAP with lots of overtime including Saturdays because of CARS. That is GOOD. That is what it's all about. The idealogues need to get a grip and get some help.

[FordBuyer]

I should say so! The 2010 Escape Limited I saw at the Dealer listed for over $33,000! If Ford can't make money selling 4wd Escapes for $30,000+, then all hope is lost for Ford ever making a profit on auto operations consistently. Auto prices are getting out of hand IMO, especially when you consider how much the middle class has lost in their investments and their home prices. Ford needs an affordable Fiesta on the market quickly along with a new Focus that is value priced. IMO, the auto manufacturers that do best in future will be the ones who offer a great value lineup of vehicles that start under $20,000 and under $15,000 and even below that. The middle class is tapped out period.

 

Maybe why Hyundai/Kia are doing so well? Ford needs to learn from this and I believe they have with vehicles like new Fiesta, TC, and new derivatives based off Focus and Fiesta platform probably coming. Too bad they are not out now competing with new Forte and other Korean models. The sweet spot now is value transportation with convenience features avalailable on more expensive vehicles. That will not be changing anytime soon as it will take long time to dig out this economic mess.

[RichardJensen]

I'd be more inclined to go with Richard if the list actually said: "Ford Escape Hybrid" or "Ford Escape 4-Cyl FWD", but that is not how the information is being reported.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=...article-6954244

 

See what's on that top 10 list that's missing on the other top 10 lists?

 

Exactly.

 

The NHTSA is reporting details that the major media outlets are removing. And once again Edmunds deserves no more credit for 'discovering' this than I do for 'discovering' the fire hydrant across the street.

[jasonj80]

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=...article-6954244

 

See what's on that top 10 list that's missing on the other top 10 lists?

 

Exactly.

 

The NHTSA is reporting details that the major media outlets are removing. And once again Edmunds deserves no more credit for 'discovering' this than I do for 'discovering' the fire hydrant across the street.

 

How many people do you think understand what fwd is, including those in a news room -- it is a great way to play with numbers. We are talking about the American public -- the same people that had a household income of $60,000 and thought they could afford a $450,000 house.

 

It is a way to report the numbers so SUV/Pickups don't make the list. Did the Government release full lists or just the top 10?

[RichardJensen]

How many people do you think understand what fwd is, including those in a news room -- it is a great way to play with numbers. We are talking about the American public -- the same people that had a household income of $60,000 and thought they could afford a $450,000 house.

 

It is a way to report the numbers so SUV/Pickups don't make the list. Did the Government release full lists or just the top 10?

So the gov't should arbitrarily recompile its data for the press? :rolleyes: Sorry, I'm not buying it. There was absolutely no mandate for the NHTSA to provide 'statistics for dummies'. If reporters didn't understand the data then they shouldn't have edited it.

 

The gov't apparently released full data (otherwise Edmunds couldn't recompile it), but I can't find it anywhere on the NHTSA, CARS, or DOT websites.

[jpd80]

How can Corolla can be above Focus on one list and eight places below it on another?

I can understand the combined SUV numbers pushing them up but is there another Focus I'm missing?

Does the government count PZEV Focus separate to Standard Focus?

Edited August 8, 2009 by jpd80

[Noah Harbinger]

Auto prices are getting out of hand IMO, especially when you consider how much the middle class has lost in their investments and their home prices. Ford needs an affordable Fiesta on the market quickly along with a new Focus that is value priced. IMO, the auto manufacturers that do best in future will be the ones who offer a great value lineup of vehicles that start under $20,000 and under $15,000 and even below that. The middle class is tapped out period.

 

In constant 2007 dollars:

 

 

Oh yes. That's SO out of control!

[tzach]

Uh come on, let's cut out the political BS. There are over 230 million vehicles out there and many of them are over 10 years old, and destroying 750,000 of them is not even a small dent. The used car lots and those being sold by private owners are as numerous as ever. I'm not personally benefitting from CARS and could care less, but if it helps out the auto manufacturers and puts some people back to work, then great. Already I read Ford is running three shifts at WAP with lots of overtime including Saturdays because of CARS. That is GOOD. That is what it's all about. The idealogues need to get a grip and get some help.

 

I'm not saying c4c should not be done especially if it is doing good for ford. But 10 years old is not that old I have a forty year old car that runs great. To destroy these cars when there are older worse cars on the road owned by poor people who can not buy a new car and take advantage of the c4c program when they could be given to yhem for free and get even worse cars off the road is typical political stupidity. If you don't think politics enters into these decisions and that they can't think past the end of there nose you need to get you head out of your a**. I don't care how many cars are on the road it is a complete waste to destroy good cars to say ooh lok what we are doing for you. The cars being sold on used car lots and by private owners have nothing to do with my point, its the fact that good cars are being destroyd when there are worse one out there owned by people who can not afford to ber helped by the morons in washington.

[jpd80]

I'm all for recycling good C4C vehicles to people who can use them in exchange for real clunkers,

that way we kill two birds with one stone, new car buyers and poor car owners both get better vehicles.

[RichardJensen]

I don't think people complaining about the scrapping of these cars realize, that, in bulk, they are bottom of the barrel used cars.

 

Most used cars on the road today get better gas mileage than mid/late 90s SUVs & trucks. All those 3.8L V6 GM sedans--all of them get better gas mileage than SUVs and trucks, ditto the Vulcan Tauruses and Sables of that vintage, not to mention all the Accords and unsludged Camries. Those 90s sedans don't qualify for CARS--their mileage is too good. Therefore there's no incentive to trade them in on late 90s SUVs.

 

About the only beneficiaries to such a program would be owners of even older SUVs and trucks and how many of them are there?

 

----

 

BTW, The Escape is undoubtedly the most popular vehicle because it's in general terms about the same size as the mid 90s Explorer (the most popular C4C trade-in), but gets something like 50% better gas mileage. And is screwed together better with better safety equipment. What's not to like?

[jpd80]

BTW, The Escape is undoubtedly the most popular vehicle because it's in general terms about the same size as the mid 90s Explorer (the most popular C4C trade-in), but gets something like 50% better gas mileage. And is screwed together better with better safety equipment. What's not to like?

I just saw a new Explorer and a late 1990s Explorer driving down the road together

and yeah, they are prety much the same size.

 

I'm surprised at how much bigger the Explorer is these days.