Mark8LSC CE0464 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Tata's mis-adventure That is gonna start to hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Jaguar/Land Rover are an absolute shower, shower of $h!t T-Stag what have you got to say for yourself. You should be ashamed, dragging a nice little company like Tata down like this. They would have made a profit but you have absolutely ruined them. Do you know how many Nano's they will have sell now to make up for the money pits losses. "Tata Motors lost 3.3 billion rupees ($67.2 million) in the April-June quarter, driven by a 52 percent drop in sales volumes at its Jaguar Land Rover subsidiary and the cost of servicing its debt, the company said Monday. In July, the company reported stand-alone results. Without the burden of its June 2008 Jaguar Land Rover acquisition, Tata Motors, India's largest commercial vehicle maker, had a quarterly profit of 5.1 billion rupees ($105.0 million). The company has worked hard to manage its growing debt burden -- now more than 350 billion rupees ($7.1 billion) -- most of it incurred to buy and operate Jaguar Land Rover. An absolute shower & disgrace, l shall store this in my memory bank for future reference T-Stag.. Edited August 31, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Also l have got another complaint T-Stag whilst your looking in. We had a Jaguar dealership open up in my area at Walton on Thames in 2007 they only lasted 8 months and went bust. Your Jaguar dealership is located right next Walton on Thames railway station, all the city gents, stockbrokers and millionaires that commute by train into the city of London have all been complaining about your Jaguar dealers showrooms its making millionaires row looks like a third world sink dealership in India. When are you going to tidy it up it reflects badly on Tata ruining their upmarket image, you are dragging TATA down, Jaguar should be ashamed. Here's some photo's of the dealers, Jaguar are an absolute shooooower T-Stag. Edited August 31, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Hmm, so let's see here Tstag: From this: -During the same period (April-June) last year, Tata posted a profit of 7.2 billion rupees ($147.2 million). To this: -Tata Motors lost 3.3 billion rupees ($67.2 million) in the April-June quarter, And what about this: driven by a 52 percent drop in sales volumes at its Jaguar Land Rover subsidiary and the cost of servicing its debt, the company said Monday. I though JLR sales were going through the roof??!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 ...I though JLR sales were going through the roof??!? Only if Tata had them on the roof...then they be going through the roof....on their way to the basement.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Only if Tata had them on the roof...then they be going through the roof....on their way to the basement.... LOL It sound like that TATA's boss is "hitting the roof" with Jaguar/Land Rover T-Stag. Autocar reports... "The boss of Jaguar Land Rover's Indian parent company Tata has warned that lengthy shutdowns of its factories cannot be ruled out. Ravi Kant, chairman of Tata Motors, told The Times newspaper: "There may be requirements in the future to shut plants." LINK What l want to know is when are you going to "jump off the roof" T-Stag, phone me up if you want a friendly Samaritan to talk you down. Edited September 1, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 but seriously folks, Rover and Jag make sooo much money ad Ford really was stupid to ditch them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Hey, they are botique brands now. The only way to stop the bleeding is to consolidate manufacturing to a small facility, something like the back room at an Indian tractor plant. The future I see for Jag/LR is limited production to increase snob appeal enough to justify a price high enough to break even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) but seriously folks, Rover and Jag make sooo much money ad Ford really was stupid to ditch them Jaguar suffered 100,000's of sales of X-Types under Ford, They are now booming under TATA. TATA have downsized production of the X-Type to ZERO, its production ends at end of this year, Jaguar workers will be ending up in a dole queue. See, TATA won't keep loss making assembly lines, l bet Jaguar workers on the X-Type line are thrilled to bits they are no longer under Ford. If you don't make anything, you can't lose money TATA are on to a winner here. Edited September 1, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Only if Tata had them on the roof...then they be going through the roof....on their way to the basement.... Jaguar suffered 100,000's of sales of X-Types under Ford, They are now booming under TATA. TATA have downsized production of the X-Type to ZERO, its production ends at end of this year, Jaguar workers will be ending up in a dole queue. See, TATA won't keep loss making assembly lines, l bet Jaguar workers on the X-Type line are thrilled to bits they are no longer under Ford. If you don't make anything, you can't lose money TATA are on to a winner here. X-Type was gonna be dropped whether JLR was sold or not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 (edited) X-Type was gonna be dropped whether JLR was sold or not.... It's been a shame to watch the Halewood plant disappear to almost nothing & get dropped British Leyland style. My Capri & Escort were both assembled at Halewood where they built millions for the UK market. It's gone from producing a constant 200,000 Escorts a year for the British market in the late 60's to late 70's to next to almost next to nothing under Jaguar today. The Halewood plant used to employ 15,000 back then under Ford, today it's just 2,000 and hundreds of Jaguar workers have been dropped the rest are still waiting to see if gets the new green baby Land Rover, if not it's gonna be final curtains as the plant gets dropped. Long term l think TATA will move all its production to India, and leave it's design team in the UK. Gordon Bean our resident idiot at No 10 in charge who that thinks that blowing a Pan Am 747 into a million bits is not crime or act of terror and thinks it is just fine to reward "Terrorists" by awarding them get out of jail card free card for their services to bombing & mass murder & UK trade in BP oil. Whilst our brave British/US troops fighting the "War on Terror" are getting used as target practice by the taliban on Afghan borders in the new Nam war. He backs our brave troops by starving them of equipment & support. They should train up Afghan army/police fast, and get our brave troops out their as quick as possible. Brown will no doubt do his best to save the Halewood plant, it will end up another Walmart where they will replace Jaguar jobs with high tech stacking of bake-bean tins & new homes for disenchanted Iraq & Afgan immigrants all paid for by the British Taxpayer. LINK Gotta say l wish Jaguar would start to make cars folk "want to buy" for a change like the Classic E-Type again from those special times when Jaguar made big profits every year, and not the constant bailouts by Jags owners/government of today, l would buy a new one. I wish they would stick to racing Le-Mans and bring some glory back again like they had in the late 50's with the awesome D-Types. Edited September 2, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Love the way you guy's pick and choose your news stories. Well how about this one then: Jaguar XF MEGA sales hit at home: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/242830/ Yes that's right folks, the Jaguar XF saloon is the top seller in it's class in the UK. Remarkable bearing in mind Brits generally prefer German cars. A return to form for Jaguar and a sign that in a recession Jaguar can fight back. By the way before Ford took over the XJ was also the sales leader in it's class, which is why Ford bought them. Funny that! Also there are a number of figures that aren't forming part of TATA's JLR losses. Such as - the high number of advanced orders Jaguar collected for it's luxury car the XJ (5,000 in the UK alone in month 1) - Range Rover's 40% sales increase in July - RR Sport/ Disco expected to do similar in August Lot's of stories on the internet you just have to look. So strong is Land Rover's turn around that Solihull has gone back on a 5 day week! Oh and did I mention the XK is also up 40%. Do the research for yourselves and you will just how sucessfull TATA managment is proving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 (edited) Love the way you guy's pick and choose your news stories. Well how about this one then: Jaguar XF MEGA sales hit at home: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/242830/ Also there are a number of figures that aren't forming part of TATA's JLR losses. Such as - the high number of advanced orders Jaguar collected for it's luxury car the XJ (5,000 in the UK alone in month 1) - Range Rover's 40% sales increase in July - RR Sport/ Disco expected to do similar in August Lot's of stories on the internet you just have to look. 5,000 ADVANCED ORDERS will end up as 10 a month T-Stag it would be registering in the UK sales top 10 best sellers, have a look at the link No Jags made it into the UK top 10. You have been dreaming again. LINK How many Range Rovers did they sell T-Stag %%%%%'s means absolutely nothing to me. F-Series only went up 12% with 45,500 sales. What are Range Rover "SALES" up by 5 sales. Volvo V50 sales are up 202% in the US in July it's just as well Ford sold Land Rover & not Volvo first. Gotta ask you if you think Volvo will now take over the worlds car market, and beat Range Rover to it T-Stag just interested in your thoughts? What's a Range Rover "Disco" never heard of it.? No doubt you are going to tell me the whole of the UK will be driving one and it has 5,000 pre-orders. Have they plugged the Jaguar/Land Rover 1.98 billion pounds pension scheme debt black hole yet T-Stag? Jaguar/Land Rover Pre-registrations were good in July they had ZERO T-Stag. LINK Jaguar only sold 1,218 cars in July sales down -30.95% next thing you will telling me its because they have a shortage of cars at the dealers. Car sales as a whole were up +2.43% in the UK in July. Dreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeam on T-Stag Jag sales down -30.95% Edited September 2, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Jaguar/Land Rover Pre-registrations were good in July they had ZERO T-Stag.LINK Will go through your other comments later as busy. But since when were pre-regstrations necessarily a good thing? Very often companies only pre-register vehicles so that they can dump stock quickly... The fact JLR hasn't got anything to pre-register suggests they aren't carrying much stock which is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 (edited) Right thanks for giving me so much amunition Jellymoulds. Firstly do you understand why a car that doesn't come out until next year can't be pre-registered? When car makers pre-register they normally do so in order to dump cars onto the market quickly. If sales are strong you don't pre-register. Secondly how many V50's did Volvo sell? 1000? 2000? or about 300? Thirdly you said Jag sales were down by about 30% for July right? I assume you were smart enough to remove the X type and XJ from those calculations bearing in mind Jaguar no longer makes the X type and the new XJ hasn't hit the figures yet as it's not actually on the road yet? No funny that. It's amazing what you can make numbers say isn't it! Because if you do strip those numbers out then you will note JLR sales are up significantly. I'll let you tell everyone the numbers for the XF and XK shall I? Should Volvo have been sold first? Of course. The Jaguar XF SALOON (note the body type) is the top seller in it's class with a whopping 60% market share (see link above). And with similar pre manufacture sales patterns being seen for the XJ as the XF then there is no reason to believe the XJ can't retake it number 1 position too (a position vacated under former Dearborn management). So 60% market share in the UK for the XF. Name 1 Lincoln product (with competiton) that can claim that at home. Just one....... Looking forward to the replys given the baiting in the thread's title. Best of it is I'm more of a Land Rover fan than a Jag fan! Edited September 2, 2009 by TStag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Love the way you guy's pick and choose your news stories. Well how about this one then: Yes that's right folks, the Jaguar XF saloon is the top seller in it's class in the UK. Also there are a number of figures that aren't forming part of TATA's JLR losses. Such as - the high number of advanced orders Jaguar collected for it's luxury car the XJ (5,000 in the UK alone in month 1) - Range Rover's 40% sales increase in July - RR Sport/ Disco expected to do similar in August So strong is Land Rover's turn around that Solihull has gone back on a 5 day week! Oh and did I mention the XK is also up 40%. Do the research for yourselves and you will just how sucessfull TATA managment is proving. You amuse me Tstag......YOU talk about US "picking and choosing" news stories, then you list UK-only numbers? That makes sense...top seller in the UK is great and all, but it's not [necessarily] indicative of how Jag is doing overall. 5,000 pre-orders for XJ doesn't mean anything - that doesn't mean it'll have a guaranteed 5K / month. Camaro had 20-something thousand preorders too..... I don't care about Range Rover percentages - they mean nothing if the difference is only a handful of vehicles, give me SALES numbers (the number of units sold) and then maybe I can go along with your thought. And "expected to" and "did" are different things, so lets see how RRS and Disco sales are before you use that as evidence of LR's rise to the top. Again regarding XK - give me SALES NUMBERS, not percentages. "Successful management?" So, going from a $147.2 million profit to a $67.2 million loss after acquiring JLR is considered "successful mangament?" I guess GM's guys can be considered "successful" too then. What's a Range Rover "Disco" never heard of it.? He was talking about Range Rover Sport / Discovery 3 (LR3, soon to be LR4 in the States) sales. Thirdly you said Jag sales were down by about 30% for July right? I assume you were smart enough to remove the X type and XJ from those calculations bearing in mind Jaguar no longer makes the X type and the new XJ hasn't hit the figures yet as it's not actually on the road yet? No funny that. It's amazing what you can make numbers say isn't it! Because if you do strip those numbers out then you will note JLR sales are up significantly. I'll let you tell everyone the numbers for the XF and XK shall I? Should Volvo have been sold first? Of course. The Jaguar XF SALOON (note the body type) is the top seller in it's class with a whopping 60% market share (see link above). And with similar pre manufacture sales patterns being seen for the XJ as the XF then there is no reason to believe the XJ can't retake it number 1 position too (a position vacated under former Dearborn management). So 60% market share in the UK for the XF. Name 1 Lincoln product (with competiton) that can claim that at home. Just one....... Looking forward to the replys given the baiting in the thread's title. Best of it is I'm more of a Land Rover fan than a Jag fan! Why would you remove certain vehicle sales from the sales numbers? They still count even if the vehicle is down because it's no longer in production. So, 5653 is enough for 60% marketshare? Hmmm, yeah, I don't know why you even bother comparing that to Lincoln and the US marketplace it competes in...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 You amuse me Tstag......YOU talk about US "picking and choosing" news stories, then you list UK-only numbers? That makes sense...top seller in the UK is great and all, but it's not [necessarily] indicative of how Jag is doing overall. 5,000 pre-orders for XJ doesn't mean anything - that doesn't mean it'll have a guaranteed 5K / month. Camaro had 20-something thousand preorders too..... I don't care about Range Rover percentages - they mean nothing if the difference is only a handful of vehicles, give me SALES numbers (the number of units sold) and then maybe I can go along with your thought. And "expected to" and "did" are different things, so lets see how RRS and Disco sales are before you use that as evidence of LR's rise to the top. Again regarding XK - give me SALES NUMBERS, not percentages. "Successful management?" So, going from a $147.2 million profit to a $67.2 million loss after acquiring JLR is considered "successful mangament?" I guess GM's guys can be considered "successful" too then. He was talking about Range Rover Sport / Discovery 3 (LR3, soon to be LR4 in the States) sales. Why would you remove certain vehicle sales from the sales numbers? They still count even if the vehicle is down because it's no longer in production. So, 5653 is enough for 60% marketshare? Hmmm, yeah, I don't know why you even bother comparing that to Lincoln and the US marketplace it competes in...... You remove X type sales from Jag's numbers to understand growth in real terms. How does including the X type help to demonstrate the sucess or failure of Jaguar's current business model. It really only helps to understand the inept management decisions that led to the creation of the mondeo X type in the first place. As for the sales numbers then I'll happily post links once the actual numbers become available (Over the next coupleof months). At present I'm working on the numbers given to the UK press by JLR very recently, which understandbly haven't had time to filter through onto the actual figures. Once I do I'll start a thread so you can all express your joy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Range Rover sales in July up 50%: http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-sto...97319-24343207/ A taste of things to come I suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Range Rover sales in July up 50%: http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-sto...97319-24343207/ A taste of things to come I suggest. whilst i somewhat admire your blind loyalty TStag...i do wonder when reality will hit home....up 50%, how many more cars did they sell? 3? as mentioned, % of small numbers are severely squewed, hell if I sell 5 cars one month and 10 the next thats outrageous increases....so forget %'s, they mean absolutely diddly...ESPECIALLY with small volume luxo barges.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 whilst i somewhat admire your blind loyalty TStag...i do wonder when reality will hit home....up 50%, how many more cars did they sell? 3? as mentioned, % of small numbers are severely squewed, hell if I sell 5 cars one month and 10 the next thats outrageous increases....so forget %'s, they mean absolutely diddly...ESPECIALLY with small volume luxo barges.... I sold something on eBay this month. I didn't sell anything last month. My sales are up 100% baby!!!!!!!!!! :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I sold something on eBay this month. I didn't sell anything last month. My sales are up 100% baby!!!!!!!!!! :happy feet: YOU GO TOM!...just remain humble ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 TStag: If you keep looking at little tiny successes here and there, it'll almost convince you that JLR actually need three plants. ---- They need one. Barely. ---- You might also be convinced that JLR has enough volume to sustain ongoing R&D. They don't. They are trying to match companies that exceed their volume by factors of four and five---they can't afford that. They will continue to leech off TATA, and their leeching will be all the more noxious as TATA has no projects on which they can share engineering costs. JLR will dish out profits by the spoonful while consuming capital by the barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I sold something on eBay this month. I didn't sell anything last month. My sales are up 100% baby!!!!!!!!!! :happy feet: Man, you're on fire Tom!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 TStag: If you keep looking at little tiny successes here and there, it'll almost convince you that JLR actually need three plants. ---- They need one. Barely. ---- You might also be convinced that JLR has enough volume to sustain ongoing R&D. They don't. They are trying to match companies that exceed their volume by factors of four and five---they can't afford that. They will continue to leech off TATA, and their leeching will be all the more noxious as TATA has no projects on which they can share engineering costs. JLR will dish out profits by the spoonful while consuming capital by the barrel. leech is too nice, with the gaping wounds JLR is causing Tatas bottom line, I would say Maggot therapy........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Man, you're on fire Tom!! Damn straight I am!!!!! Of course, by the time I bought packing materials and shipped the item, I lost money.... But my sales are up 100%!!!!! Boooyaaaaaahhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! :bowdown: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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