jpd80 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 If they do a north/south layout on the PI, would it not make since that the upcoming Explorer be the same way? ... Now I see where you're going with this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EgoFG Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Personally I still do not see any that rules out what I see as the most obvious option A US engineered RWD based on the Falcon Platform. Likely all that is needed is a slight stretch in length, say 4 inches (would give a car very similar to one previously known in Australia as a Fairlane). In fact 'based on the Falcon Platform' would also allow for a 'reskin' to suit US police tastes. If it was 5.0 V8 only then their would be no need to worry about the ecoboost V6 fitting in - until it is also needed in Australia - but if it was that would add to the 'US Engineering' - and be beneficial in Australia when Euro V hits us (assuming the I6 will need to go). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Personally I still do not see any that rules out what I see as the most obvious option A US engineered RWD based on the Falcon Platform. Likely all that is needed is a slight stretch in length, say 4 inches (would give a car very similar to one previously known in Australia as a Fairlane). In fact 'based on the Falcon Platform' would also allow for a 'reskin' to suit US police tastes. If it was 5.0 V8 only then their would be no need to worry about the ecoboost V6 fitting in - until it is also needed in Australia - but if it was that would add to the 'US Engineering' - and be beneficial in Australia when Euro V hits us (assuming the I6 will need to go). This would never fly unless there was also a retail outlet for vehicles based on the same platform. The special service market simply isn't large enough to justify an American vehicle program specifically for that purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) This would never fly unless there was also a retail outlet for vehicles based on the same platform. The special service market simply isn't large enough to justify an American vehicle program specifically for that purpose. I notice an evolution of corruption in this thread. 1. PI to be built at CAP 2. CAP is a D3 FWD/AWD plant 3. CAP worker hints that PI is heavily modified current model, not AWD and more power than SHO 4. BON posters assume that means RWD 5. BON posters then try to say that D3 FWD to RWD is possible. 6. We're back to a RWD Interceptor thread. What would be so wrong having the PI as a 3.7 FWD and a V8 AWD? I'm thinking V8 because it's cheaper to produce than Ecoboost V6 and the room around the EB V6 and turbos Versus the V8's wider banks are similar. The stronger EB V6 Transmission could also be used... Edited March 2, 2010 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 What would be so wrong having the PI as a 3.7 FWD and a V8 AWD? I'm thinking V8 because it's cheaper to produce than Ecoboost V6 and the room around the EB V6 and turbos Versus the V8's wider banks are similar. The stronger EB V6 Transmission could also be used... You run into the issue of Ford having no suitable V8 that will fit in the D3 architecture again though. This was all hashed and rehashed when mulling over powertrain options for the MKS before it was launched. I could see it being made to accept a V8 perhaps in the next generation of the platform, but that's still several years off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) You run into the issue of Ford having no suitable V8 that will fit in the D3 architecture again though. This was all hashed and rehashed when mulling over powertrain options for the MKS before it was launched. I could see it being made to accept a V8 perhaps in the next generation of the platform, but that's still several years off. They made room for Ecoboost and Mods were designed for East West applications. New Boss 5.0 still retains Mod bore spacings making it a relatively short engine. I'm just saying that a heavily modified existing taurus is justified for a LEV, then there's going to be some interesting stuff in there. They could just run with ecoboost V6 and amortize the costs better, the V8 would be an excuse to for a new product to retail as well..... I think my ideas are less "out there" than RWD V8 interceptors.... Edited March 2, 2010 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 They made room for Ecoboost and Mods were designed for East West applications. New Boss 5.0 still retains Mod bore spacings making it a relatively short engine. I'm just saying that a heavily modified existing taurus is justified for a LEV, then there's going to be some interesting stuff in there. They could just run with ecoboost V6 and amortize the costs better, the V8 would be an excuse to for a new product to retail as well..... I think my ideas are less "out there" than RWD V8 interceptors.... A lot easier to make room for turbos that can be plumbed basically anywhere under the hood than it is to make room for 2 more cylinders that must be adjacent to the previously existing 6 though. I'm pretty sure the mod was ruled out early on in the D3. I don't think your idea is really "out there" as much as I just don't see it as feasible yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 IIRC, with the up-date from the 500 to the Taurus, the platform was massively re-done, with the engine and transmission mounting to the platform on their own mounts, and not part of the front-suspension sub-frame. This may have the effect of making the FWD platform more robust, for taking rough-service pounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 He looked at me a moment and then said, "I can only tell you that the next PI will be built in Chicago." I said that that plant (actually in Melrose Park, a suburb of Chicago) built only FWD/AWD vehicles and he said, "The next PI will be built on a heavily modified current model." I said that he must mean the Taurus and his grin got bigger. I asked if I was close on the drivetrain and he said, "AWD? I haven't heard any talk about that, but think more power than the SHO." I have to bring this up T'Cal, CAP (Chicago Assembly Plant) is at 12600 S. Torrence Ave in Chicago. Ford also has a stamping plant in Chicago Heights, a southern suburb. Nothing close to Melrose Park. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercury Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Would there be anything crazy about taking the existing Explorer/Sporttrac frame and draping a car(carlike)body on it? I know its not a perimeter frame like the crown vic but if the body was purpose built for the ladder frame it might be able to be tucked up a little and not look weird. All the running gear could be built with existing components with rwd or awd capability. Room for the 5.0L(or 6.2). A fairly modern front suspension and IRS. Width might be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 But that again would be an orphan platform, and so it would cost more to keep around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEMBSB Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it a couple of times already... I have seen documents stating that there are 2 variants of Taurus, one of them will be used for PI duties. Nothing suggests that this has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) Hennessey Maxiboost 435 Lincoln MKS Yea for that how much that shitbox cost I can get a real car like a CTS-V or a 300 SRT with change leftover for a base Ranger. Hey look for those wild crap about Ford will use a Taurus body with a rwd drivetrian it anit happing. Now i bet that what will happen is that there will be a Taurus P.I. (fwd/awd 3.7 n' all) but a rwd sedan will also debut. I based that off info off themustangsource.com about a 4-door T-bird returning with other platform mates by 12'. Also the Panther may get another go built at CAP but we'll see what they have soon. Edited March 3, 2010 by Fgts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 If they do a north/south layout on the PI, would it not make since that the upcoming Explorer be the same way? What he said... ... Now I see where you're going with this... Just to be clear, not the same guy....He is Tornado....my screen name is twintornados, but I do see his point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapRoboSitter Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) Its hard for me to seperate rumour from certain documents I've happened upon... it should be noted that when Ford moves the Explorer to the D3 Platform it will also have a Police Service model and from what I understand will be built in Chicago (Correct me if I'm wrong... hard to seperate the Wheat from The Chaffe around here!!) Ford was supposed to announce in the 1st quarter of 2010 the CVPI Replacement... running out of time!! Then again us here at STAP are closing "3rd quarter of 2011" so... They just don't like to commit to anything these days... Smart move in this Day and age!! Don't make promises you can't keep... Oh and based on what "everyone" says? There's still wiggle room for STAP to say open... Based on what I've seen? There's no money in Maint budget for ANYTHING... and the budget has been almost negligible for the past 4 years! So the amount of money they are putting into this plant... Either its going to the Scrapper or ... for the optimist in you... "Why spend money on something that is going to be torn out and replaced in a few years??" hehe (it should be noted that we have 2 seperate 20 year old Robot lines (with 20 year old Robots) and our bodyshop is flexible with the exception of a few Presses... Conveyors are conveyors and robots can do anything with a little imagination and new Weld-guns!) Edited March 3, 2010 by StapRoboSitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) Yea for that how much that shitbox cost I can get a real car like a CTS-V or a 300 SRT with change leftover for a base Ranger. Wow, it is an expensive cow. Sorry but that's what you get for not using the Falcon platform, our FPV versions are getting blown 5.0 V8 later this year.... Edited March 3, 2010 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 What he said... Just to be clear, not the same guy....He is Tornado....my screen name is twintornados, but I do see his point... Sorry for the confusion twintornados, I know you and Tornado are separate posters but his post seemed to echo your suggestion and go one step further, what if PI and Explorer were RWD variations of D3. Sorry for the confusion, I pulled an all niter when talking to you guys earlier today and haven't been to bed in 36 hours.... so I'm a little...:boring: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEMBSB Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) Oakville has a chance to get Global Platform, they are saying St. Thomas definitely closing no product past 2011, hope is someone will buy the building and we would have successor rights. The Taurus will be the new fleet police cruiser and they are saying they have a stretch version for a limo. Edited March 3, 2010 by JEMBSB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 N/S engine layout in the new Explorer? Who brought the drugs? If a successor to the CV is to be built in Chicago, it will be based on the platforms that are there now and scheduled to be there for the near future. That means E/W engine/tranny layout. I can possibly see the Ecoboost V6 being used for "pursuit specials", but a naturally aspirated V6 will probably be the most popular. Most PDs do not need big power, they want something with enough power, low operating and maint. cost, and maximum reliability. A good example - most Chargers I see in police use are equipped with the V6, not the Hemi. Remember, most police vehicles are speced by city councils, township trustees, and others who have a limited budget to work with, and many demands to spend what little they have. Any CV replacement that has a transaction price above $25K will be dead in the water. A $35K cruiser is not going to happen, so forget RWD conversion of the D3 platform, E/W V8s, unique body, and so on. It will be based on a production vehicle, decontented from a consumer version, with appropriate upgrades, reinforcements, and so on to suit it to the application without blowing the price up. Pie in the sky always ends up being a mess on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Any CV replacement that has a transaction price above $25K will be dead in the water. Anyone have any idea what a police spec Tahoe costs? I am seeing a lot of new ones around SE Michigan in Border Patrol and State Police fleets and wondered what they cost. A look at the GM website states a base model Tahoe is around $37k. I cant see a government agency spending anywhere near that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Any CV replacement that has a transaction price above $25K will be dead in the water. Or PD's will have to get used to the fact that they will have to spend more for their service vehicles and keep them longer. With the average transaction price for a new car now north of that figure, the days of sub-$25K fullsize vehicles (even for fleet customers) are numbered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I see some of that. With budgets cut, some rural depts are reducing the number of cars on patrol, and to reduce the miles driven in those cars, there is more time spent parked waiting for a call. Result is much worse coverage. But they can get by with fewer cars and those cars last longer. I also see some rural depts are experimenting. I have seen one using 4 cylinder Malibus. And with tight budgets being the new reality, there might be a place for "police service" Focus and Fusion models. Use smaller, less expensive vehicles for routine duties, and have a few major incident and pursuit cruisers in reserve. The officers may not be thrilled, but the taxpayers will get decent coverage for a reasonable cost. Going back to the mid 80s, I remember that due to budget constraints one Sheriffs Dept had the road deputies in K cars and 4 cylinder Rangers, with a couple of full size cruisers in reserve. The Rangers were a hoot to look at - 4 cylinder, 4 speed stick regular cab short beds, with the full dept paint job and decals. They reused the light bars from retired full size cruisers, so the light bars were wider than the truck's roof. Those K cars and Rangers were in service up into the 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) I see some of that. With budgets cut, some rural depts are reducing the number of cars on patrol, and to reduce the miles driven in those cars, there is more time spent parked waiting for a call. Result is much worse coverage. But they can get by with fewer cars and those cars last longer. I also see some rural depts are experimenting. I have seen one using 4 cylinder Malibus. And with tight budgets being the new reality, there might be a place for "police service" Focus and Fusion models. Use smaller, less expensive vehicles for routine duties, and have a few major incident and pursuit cruisers in reserve. The officers may not be thrilled, but the taxpayers will get decent coverage for a reasonable cost. Going back to the mid 80s, I remember that due to budget constraints one Sheriffs Dept had the road deputies in K cars and 4 cylinder Rangers, with a couple of full size cruisers in reserve. The Rangers were a hoot to look at - 4 cylinder, 4 speed stick regular cab short beds, with the full dept paint job and decals. They reused the light bars from retired full size cruisers, so the light bars were wider than the truck's roof. Those K cars and Rangers were in service up into the 90s. Back in the early '70s Ford had a Maverick Police Package. It wasn't much of a pursuit car with a smog choked 302 but it was perfectly useable for patrol and city use. I don't believe that many were sold, but I have seen survivors in magazine articles. The Pittsburgh PD has been using FWD cruisers since the mid '80s. They started out with Buick LeSabres and Olds 88s in 1985 and have used Impalas for years with Chevy vans and Silverado 2500s for Paddy Wagons. There are a few CVs that were inherited in a consolidation with the Housing Authority PD. Our County police and Sheriffs use Chargers, Impalas and Escapes for K-9 duty. I don't see any reason why a Taurus based PI wouldn't work here as long as the price was competitive. Edited March 3, 2010 by Mark B. Morrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 N/S engine layout in the new Explorer? Who brought the drugs? If a successor to the CV is to be built in Chicago, it will be based on the platforms that are there now and scheduled to be there for the near future. That means E/W engine/tranny layout. I can possibly see the Ecoboost V6 being used for "pursuit specials", but a naturally aspirated V6 will probably be the most popular. Most PDs do not need big power, they want something with enough power, low operating and maint. cost, and maximum reliability. A good example - most Chargers I see in police use are equipped with the V6, not the Hemi. Remember, most police vehicles are speced by city councils, township trustees, and others who have a limited budget to work with, and many demands to spend what little they have. Any CV replacement that has a transaction price above $25K will be dead in the water. A $35K cruiser is not going to happen, so forget RWD conversion of the D3 platform, E/W V8s, unique body, and so on. It will be based on a production vehicle, decontented from a consumer version, with appropriate upgrades, reinforcements, and so on to suit it to the application without blowing the price up. Pie in the sky always ends up being a mess on the floor. It was a corruption in thinking like most of this thread. 1. Rumors of a "heavily modified" Taurus making more power than SHO but without AWD 2. The above got people started on a RWD variation of D3 and then a what if happened on Explorer. Supposition on supposition not based in reality. I believe new base PI cruiser will be 300 hp 3.7 FWD Taurus, that exceeds the current panther's output and has a more efficient power train offering real cost savings in fuel consumption.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Its hard for me to seperate rumour from certain documents I've happened upon... it should be noted that when Ford moves the Explorer to the D3 Platform it will also have a Police Service model and from what I understand will be built in Chicago (Correct me if I'm wrong... hard to seperate the Wheat from The Chaffe around here!!) Ford was supposed to announce in the 1st quarter of 2010 the CVPI Replacement... running out of time!! Then again us here at STAP are closing "3rd quarter of 2011" so... They just don't like to commit to anything these days... Smart move in this Day and age!! Don't make promises you can't keep... Oh and based on what "everyone" says? There's still wiggle room for STAP to say open... Based on what I've seen? There's no money in Maint budget for ANYTHING... and the budget has been almost negligible for the past 4 years! So the amount of money they are putting into this plant... Either its going to the Scrapper or ... for the optimist in you... "Why spend money on something that is going to be torn out and replaced in a few years??" hehe (it should be noted that we have 2 seperate 20 year old Robot lines (with 20 year old Robots) and our bodyshop is flexible with the exception of a few Presses... Conveyors are conveyors and robots can do anything with a little imagination and new Weld-guns!) Ok this sounds like it makes since remember Chrysler just bought back one of thier "closed" car factories in Detroit also GM had earmarked 2 factories to close but now thier on "Stand-by" I only guess what's going on, but like i said earlier. 1. Ford is not making a freak rwd car based on the D-3, forget it. 2. There will be a 3.7 awd Taurus Police package, but...... 3. a RWD interceptor will come soon rather on a suped up Panther or Ford new Falcoln/Mustang platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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