Mexico sues Arizona over Immigration Law

[RangerM]

 

Mexico asks court to reject Ariz. immigration law

 

PHOENIX - Mexico on Tuesday asked a federal court in Arizona to declare the state's new immigration law unconstitutional, arguing that the country's own interests and its citizens' rights are at stake.

 

Lawyers for Mexico on Tuesday submitted a legal brief in support of one of five lawsuits challenging the law. The law will take effect July 29 unless implementation is blocked by a court.

 

The law generally requires police investigating another incident or crime to ask people about their immigration status if there's a "reasonable suspicion" they're in the country illegally. It also makes being in Arizona illegally a misdemeanor, and it prohibits seeking day-labor work along the state's streets.

 

Citing "grave concerns," Mexico said its interest in having predictable, consistent relations with the United States shouldn't be frustrated by one U.S. state.

 

Mexico also said it has a legitimate interest in defending its citizens' rights and that the law would lead to racial profiling, hinder trade and tourism, and strain the countries' work on combatting drug trafficking and related violence.

 

"Mexican citizens will be afraid to visit Arizona for work or pleasure out of concern that they will be subject to unlawful police scrutiny and detention," the brief said.

What do other countries do when the U.S. State Department says "Don't travel there"?

[NickF1011]

Worry about your own problems, Mexico. You have plenty of them. If you didn't, the U.S. wouldn't have an illegal immigration problem.

[Fgts]

Worry about your own problems, Mexico. You have plenty of them. If you didn't, the U.S. wouldn't have an illegal immigration problem.

 

This can't be said better..........

[Mark B. Morrow]

Worry about your own problems, Mexico. You have plenty of them. If you didn't, the U.S. wouldn't have an illegal immigration problem.

 

Spot on. I don't see how Mexico would have standing in a U.S. Court to join a suit on the matter.

[mettech]

 

We Can Help..

 

It appears that the Sec of Labor will help even "Illegals" get USA wages.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XctSTkfGJ8&feature=PlayList&p=525D394CB6BD2105&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=2

Edited June 23, 2010 by mettech

[BlackHorse]

In other headlines, the United States sues Mexico for aiding the exportation of violent criminals into the US that bring with them illegal narcotics, various diseases and impoverished people who become a financial burden to the respective states they end up. In addition the Mexicaon government is indirectly responsible for the murder of thousands upon thousands of American citizens killed at the hands of mexican gangs and criminals on the loose here who crossed the border unhindered by the Mexican government.

[DUCKRACER]

 

Mexico asks court to reject Ariz. immigration law

 

 

What do other countries do when the U.S. State Department says "Don't travel there"?

 

I AGREE!! LETS GET RID OF OUR IMMIGRATION LAW ALTOGETHER AND ADOPT MEXICO'S IMMIGRATION POLICY. Ten years in mexican jail for second offense....

[V8-X]

In other headlines, the United States sues Mexico for aiding the exportation of violent criminals into the US that bring with them illegal narcotics, various diseases and impoverished people who become a financial burden to the respective states they end up. In addition the Mexicaon government is indirectly responsible for the murder of thousands upon thousands of American citizens killed at the hands of mexican gangs and criminals on the loose here who crossed the border unhindered by the Mexican government.

Great stereotype there! Guess no one remembers it's the few that give the majority a bad name.

 

I'm not against immigration reform, but do not think the Arizona law is legal. And it looks like the Federal government doesn't think it's legal either, as last word I saw was the US government was also planning on suing AZ too!

Edited June 24, 2010 by V8-X

[xr7g428]

V8-X Have you read the Arizona law? It mirrors US law, only it is more restrictive in who can be questioned, and under what circumstances. The reason that there have no federal suits filed is that when they actually read the law, it looks a lot like similar statutes in several other states.

[V8-X]

V8-X Have you read the Arizona law? It mirrors US law, only it is more restrictive in who can be questioned, and under what circumstances. The reason that there have no federal suits filed is that when they actually read the law, it looks a lot like similar statutes in several other states.

Yes I have. My main issue is what " reasonable suspicion" to one officer is quite different to another. What " reasonable suspicion" is to a racist/prejudice officer is different to a non-racist/non-prejudice officer. Just look at some of the comments/stereotypes in this thread alone. You don't think those are ramped issues around AZ? From my experience of being 1/2 Hispanic, and having mostly Hispanic friends while I lived there, it was bad how officers stereotyped people.

 

Problem with the law is it can allow officers to interrogate a person practically based on their skin color and/or accent and preferred language. It's a judgment call on the officers behalf. Now do you think that same officer will treat a Hispanic with a heavy accent and preferred language of Spanish the same as a White person with a heavy Russian accent? Based off assumptions, how is the officer to believe that the Hispanic is potentially a illegal alien but the Russian is not?

 

So if they catch an illegal, hey no problem. But how many people will be harassed based on their skin color and accent? That is the major issue with me.

[grbeck]

Yes I have. My main issue is what " reasonable suspicion" to one officer is quite different to another. What " reasonable suspicion" is to a racist/prejudice officer is different to a non-racist/non-prejudice officer.

 

Under that standard, we'll be throwing out a lot of other statutes, too. No law or statute can guarantee that the law enforcement official applying it in the real world will be absolutely free of bias or prejudice.

[NickF1011]

Under that standard, we'll be throwing out a lot of other statutes, too. No law or statute can guarantee that the law enforcement official applying it in the real world will be absolutely free of bias or prejudice.

 

Yeah, I was only pulled over for drunk driving because the officer was prejudiced against people who run over mailboxes on the opposite side of the road!

[Ron W.]

Yes I have. My main issue is what " reasonable suspicion" to one officer is quite different to another. What " reasonable suspicion" is to a racist/prejudice officer is different to a non-racist/non-prejudice officer. Just look at some of the comments/stereotypes in this thread alone. You don't think those are ramped issues around AZ? From my experience of being 1/2 Hispanic, and having mostly Hispanic friends while I lived there, it was bad how officers stereotyped people.

 

Problem with the law is it can allow officers to interrogate a person practically based on their skin color and/or accent and preferred language. It's a judgment call on the officers behalf. Now do you think that same officer will treat a Hispanic with a heavy accent and preferred language of Spanish the same as a White person with a heavy Russian accent? Based off assumptions, how is the officer to believe that the Hispanic is potentially a illegal alien but the Russian is not?

 

So if they catch an illegal, hey no problem. But how many people will be harassed based on their skin color and accent? That is the major issue with me.

 

While I agree with you that some cops will behave differently than other cops, I don't think asking for proof ( papers? ) would be considered harassment.

No idea what they would be looking for in order to request proof though.

[RangerM]

Given that the Arizona law was written to mimic (as closely as possible) the Federal Law, the only way I could see someone having a problem with the AZ law (and not the Federal one), is if one were to assume that racism or prejudice is more rampant among State officials than Federal ones. How Is that not prejudice, too?

 

Or is the difference here the fact that the Arizona law has a greater chance of being enforced?

[akirby]

Now do you think that same officer will treat a Hispanic with a heavy accent and preferred language of Spanish the same as a White person with a heavy Russian accent? Based off assumptions, how is the officer to believe that the Hispanic is potentially a illegal alien but the Russian is not?

 

Because it's a little tough for a Russian to wade across the ocean and jump a fence to illegally enter the country.

 

If the police want to harass you, they will, with or without this new law. Most won't have the time to do this without a good reason anyway.

[V8-X]

Given that the Arizona law was written to mimic (as closely as possible) the Federal Law, the only way I could see someone having a problem with the AZ law (and not the Federal one), is if one were to assume that racism or prejudice is more rampant among State officials than Federal ones.

Well from my experience while living in Phoenix for 2.5 years, it is much more rampant than the occurrence that I've experienced while living in CO and NM. Seen it first had, so you guys may have your own opinion, but I've seen these prejudices many times over.

 

Because it's a little tough for a Russian to wade across the ocean and jump a fence to illegally enter the country.

 

If the police want to harass you, they will, with or without this new law. Most won't have the time to do this without a good reason anyway.

There are plenty of illegals from many different countries, but it only seems that the Mexicans get the attention. Too bad people seem to only want to concentrate on the Hispanics when it comes to illegal immigration and not the entire problem of all races/ethnicity.

 

Those officers in PHX have plenty of time on their hand and harassed anyways. So this only gives them more ability to harass the innocent.

 

I'll simply agree to disagree. You guys seem to clearly have your minds set and have never been put in some of the situations that I've been and many of my friends and family have for the sole purpose of being Hispanic. I'm American, born and raised. But I hate to see any person, no matter what race, harassed simply because of their skin color or accent.

Edited June 24, 2010 by V8-X

[RangerM]

Well from my experience while living in Phoenix for 2.5 years, it is much more rampant than the occurrence that I've experienced while living in CO and NM. Seen it first had, so you guys may have your own opinion, but I've seen these prejudices many times over.

 

Those officers in PHX have plenty of time on their hand and harassed anyways. So this only gives them more ability to harass the innocent.

 

I'll simply agree to disagree. You guys seem to clearly have your minds set and have never been put in some of the situations that I've been and many of my friends and family have for the sole purpose of being Hispanic. I'm American, born and raised. But I hate to see any person, no matter what race, harassed simply because of their skin color or accent.

So, you hinted at it, but which is it? Are the AZ officials more likely to be racist/prejudice, or is it that they are more likely to enforce the law?

 

Do you have a problem with ICE enforcing the existing law, against Hispanics, Russians, or whomever may be here illegally?

[akirby]

There are plenty of illegals from many different countries, but it only seems that the Mexicans get the attention. Too bad people seem to only want to concentrate on the Hispanics when it comes to illegal immigration and not the entire problem of all races/ethnicity.

 

Seriously? Look, I don't condone police harassment or racial profiling and I understand why you're sensitive to the subject, but come on. Mexicans live in a crappy, violent country and can simply walk across the border to AZ - hundreds or thousands per day. How can you possibly believe there is anywhere close to that many illegal aliens from other countries in AZ? Now if you were talking about New York or Michigan then you'd have a point. But AZ?

[xr7g428]

So what part of having to show your license is harassment? Every time I have ever been stopped for anything they ask for my license. I am part Cherokee. I guess I should really be offended.

[goinbroke2]

In my neighborhood (which is 90% white) the teenagers cause damage at night. Around 1 am you might hear a crash or something as one of the little bastards knock over the public mailbox or whatever. I drove by a long hair'd, pants drooping, hat on backwards kid pushing a bike with a flat tire. Yes because he was a teenager I said f*** 'em and drove by in my pick up with an empty box. I profiled him as a teenager like the bastards I see at night causing trouble. Was he one of them? don't know and don't care. Yes I painted them all with the same brush boo hoo.

I've also stopped and picked up kids pushing bikes but they were younger and/or I knew them.

 

What I'm saying is, if the vast majority of problems are being caused by a certain thing, (dogs with spots are biting people) then hell yes I agree with profiling, DUH! it's like diagnosing a problem, find out whats wrong by narrowing the parameters. Hmm..somebody's breaking into homes after they scale the walls...I better check out this old lady so I'n not accused of profiling? WTF?

 

As far as discrimination, bullshit! If I was a discriminatory cop, I would have many ways to harrass people. Before or after this law. An asshole is an asshole. If I get stopped because somebody in a green truck is doing something, then fine, I'm driving a green truck. Do I feel harrassed? NO! the cops are doing their job.

 

Seems funny I can be "profiled" because I'm military, white, male, english etc but do I cry about it? No. I certainly let the ignorant asshole that gives me a snide look because I'm speaking english know he can go fuck himself and I hope he does seperate so I won't have to deal with pricks like him. (funny how they change their attitude and get all apologetic and say I'm mistaken, yeah here's your money for gas, fuck you I won't be back. and funny how you couldn't understand I wanted my tank filled as I'm sitting at the pumps speaking english but use fluent english to apologise, fuck you again)

 

The law is for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS right? The profiling is a red herring. If they say there is a flood of russians here causing shit then damn straight check me out because I'm not russian! I might look just like a russian to a non white cop, that's fine I'm not! And the only way they can ask me is by asking for my license? Boo fricken hoo! If crime is going up in my neighborhood and the cops think it's whoever/whatever..THEN CHECK THEM OUT!!!

[mettech]

Well from my experience while living in Phoenix for 2.5 years, it is much more rampant than the occurrence that I've experienced while living in CO and NM. Seen it first had, so you guys may have your own opinion, but I've seen these prejudices many times over.

 

 

There are plenty of illegals from many different countries, but it only seems that the Mexicans get the attention. Too bad people seem to only want to concentrate on the Hispanics when it comes to illegal immigration and not the entire problem of all races/ethnicity.

 

Those officers in PHX have plenty of time on their hand and harassed anyways. So this only gives them more ability to harass the innocent.

 

I'll simply agree to disagree. You guys seem to clearly have your minds set and have never been put in some of the situations that I've been and many of my friends and family have for the sole purpose of being Hispanic. I'm American, born and raised. But I hate to see any person, no matter what race, harassed simply because of their skin color or accent.

 

Agree.... That's why the little old white woman gets searched just like the 20 year old male Muslim does at the airports.

[mettech]

In my neighborhood (which is 90% white) the teenagers cause damage at night. Around 1 am you might hear a crash or something as one of the little bastards knock over the public mailbox or whatever. I drove by a long hair'd, pants drooping, hat on backwards kid pushing a bike with a flat tire. Yes because he was a teenager I said f*** 'em and drove by in my pick up with an empty box. I profiled him as a teenager like the bastards I see at night causing trouble. Was he one of them? don't know and don't care. Yes I painted them all with the same brush boo hoo.

I've also stopped and picked up kids pushing bikes but they were younger and/or I knew them.

 

What I'm saying is, if the vast majority of problems are being caused by a certain thing, (dogs with spots are biting people) then hell yes I agree with profiling, DUH! it's like diagnosing a problem, find out whats wrong by narrowing the parameters. Hmm..somebody's breaking into homes after they scale the walls...I better check out this old lady so I'n not accused of profiling? WTF?

 

As far as discrimination, bullshit! If I was a discriminatory cop, I would have many ways to harrass people. Before or after this law. An asshole is an asshole. If I get stopped because somebody in a green truck is doing something, then fine, I'm driving a green truck. Do I feel harrassed? NO! the cops are doing their job.

 

Seems funny I can be "profiled" because I'm military, white, male, english etc but do I cry about it? No. I certainly let the ignorant asshole that gives me a snide look because I'm speaking english know he can go fuck himself and I hope he does seperate so I won't have to deal with pricks like him. (funny how they change their attitude and get all apologetic and say I'm mistaken, yeah here's your money for gas, fuck you I won't be back. and funny how you couldn't understand I wanted my tank filled as I'm sitting at the pumps speaking english but use fluent english to apologise, fuck you again)

 

The law is for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS right? The profiling is a red herring. If they say there is a flood of russians here causing shit then damn straight check me out because I'm not russian! I might look just like a russian to a non white cop, that's fine I'm not! And the only way they can ask me is by asking for my license? Boo fricken hoo! If crime is going up in my neighborhood and the cops think it's whoever/whatever..THEN CHECK THEM OUT!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ecW-d-CBPc

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtk7U-9bUJQ&NR=1

[V8-X]

So, you hinted at it, but which is it? Are the AZ officials more likely to be racist/prejudice, or is it that they are more likely to enforce the law?

 

Do you have a problem with ICE enforcing the existing law, against Hispanics, Russians, or whomever may be here illegally?

I have no problem with the AZ officials enforcing current Federal Law. Problem is they are enacting their own law to specifically target one particular race/ethnicity. That there is the problem that does specifically go against the law of the land.

 

I have no issue with ICE enforcing existing law against any illegal immigrants, no matter race/ethnicity or what not. But ICE aren't the ones enacting this law and aren't solely going after one particular population. They have a much broader focus.

 

Seriously? Look, I don't condone police harassment or racial profiling and I understand why you're sensitive to the subject, but come on. Mexicans live in a crappy, violent country and can simply walk across the border to AZ - hundreds or thousands per day. How can you possibly believe there is anywhere close to that many illegal aliens from other countries in AZ? Now if you were talking about New York or Michigan then you'd have a point. But AZ?

I'm not saying there are an equal number of Russians or Germans or whoever here as there are Hispanics. Part of the problem is the securing of the Mexican border, but did you know many of those crossing the boarder truly aren't Mexican? Guatemalans, Hondurans, and various people from other Central American countries are also crossing the boarder. But people simply want to classify them all as Mexicans. Just like FL has issues with Cubans, Haitians and Dominicans for example. Should we classify them as Mexicans because they speak Spanish and have darker skin?

 

See, right there is the problem. Yes in NY or MI they may have more problems with a particular race/ethnicity/country of origin than they do in AZ. But they can't openly come out and use that group as their basis or population of focus like the AZ law and officials intend to do.

 

I would just like all states and the Federal Government to enforce the law equally, that's all. Again it simply goes back to an Italian, who prefers to speak Italian and does so with a heavy Italian accent gets pulled over for whatever reason, is very unlikely to be questioned whether they are here legally or not. Now a Hispanic speaking Spanish with a heavy accent, they will more times than not will be questioned and put through the routine. Having this one track mind or singular focus should not be the intent and is considered harassment. The only sensitivity I have is this singular focus. If the intent wasn't directed at one particular race/ethnicity or country of origin, I'd have no issues with the law.

 

I've said my piece. Thanks for listening, whether you agree or disagree with my thoughts, that's you're opinion and right.

 

Oh, and I loved Gran Torino by the way. Great movie!

Edited June 25, 2010 by V8-X

[akirby]

Problem is they are enacting their own law to specifically target one particular race/ethnicity. That there is the problem that does specifically go against the law of the land.

 

Have you actually read the new law? It doesn't treat Hispanics any differently. There is nothing in the law that differentiates between nationalities or languages or anything else.

 

I'm sure the number of illegal hispanic immigrants in AZ is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE higher than all other ethnicities combined just based on geography so of course more Hispanics will be involved. But that doesn't make it profiling - it's just probability.

 

If the police have a reason to question me I have to provide identification. How is this any different?

[mettech]

Have you actually read the new law? It doesn't treat Hispanics any differently. There is nothing in the law that differentiates between nationalities or languages or anything else.

 

I'm sure the number of illegal hispanic immigrants in AZ is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE higher than all other ethnicities combined just based on geography so of course more Hispanics will be involved. But that doesn't make it profiling - it's just probability.

 

If the police have a reason to question me I have to provide identification. How is this any different?

 

Agree.