U.S.-spec Ford Ranger to officially end production in 2011, Ford explains why

[TomServo92]

And here come the Mulally fan boys.

 

And here comes the forum idiot.

[PREMiERdrum]

Wait....you took a class on Horror Films? Really?

 

My two majors were Radio-Televison-Film and Stagecraft-Design.

 

The focus of the R-T-F program was mostly broadcast news and television production, but since the "Film" portion was in there, at least one film elective was required. Among the choices offered, Horror Film Analysis (taught by the incredible Dr. Sharon Croft-Heaton) was the best fit for me. The class, to be quite honest, was one of the most difficult in my college career.

 

And here come the Mulally fan boys.

 

I'm a fan of what he's done at Ford, but far from a "fanboy". My confidence in their decisions lies not just in the man, but in the systems he has put into place. As individuals, we all make bad calls every now and then. What Mulally has done is create a corporate culture that keeps open dialogs between a team of very competent, intelligent managers. The chance of a well informed, well researched team making a wrong decision is much smaller than the chance of one person making a wrong decision.

[Critic]

You're right. I'm wrong. You win. Congratulations.

 

I don't think so either, Tom.

 

I know I won't bother writing. I'll just buy something else.

I'm with you Ranger.. Richard, this isn't an argument which one side has to win to prove that Ford is making a right decision. Lately I'm not to enthused with some of Ford's decisions. And yes they can make them any day of the week too.

 

The basic argument we all want is that Ford makes the correct decision. And with the info we have, this does NOT look correct. A small pickup IS needed by younger less affluent people who know they need one, IF Ford has a replacement and is holding info away from competitors good, but to abandon the market with the threat of rising fuel prices is a WRONG decision. and people are trying to point that out.

[TomServo92]

::PREMiERdrum trying to reason with FordBuyer::

 

Give it up. That post is too complex. He has reading comprehension issues.

[PREMiERdrum]

Give it up. That post is too complex. He has reading comprehension issues.

 

Hey, it's not his fault that none of us have such a keen understanding of Metro Detroit. :shades:

[FordBuyer]

Hey, it's not his fault that none of us have such a keen understanding of Metro Detroit. :shades:

 

You mean like the Ford campus in Dearborn? Or WAP and DTP or even Wixom when it built Lincolns? Or would you be talking about Romeo Proving Grounds or Ford test track across from Greenfield Village. Or how about LTP plant down the street where my buddy drives Ford test mules from? You mean that Metro Detroit? Or how about my neighbors down block. One drives a Volt test mule and another drives a Kuga and C-Max regularly. Yeah, living in Metro Detroit keeps me out of touch of with what Ford is doing. I won't even bring up my other buddies who are engineers for Ford. You guys are just jealous, but won't admit it. I see more new, non camoed Explorers driving down the street than you see new Lincolns drive down yours. I have to admit we get kind of jaded by it all. The number one employee in Western Wayne County is still Ford Motor. And Ford is the best selling product here. Like Ford advertising likes to say..."This is Ford country."

[RichardJensen]

I'm with you Ranger.. Richard, this isn't an argument which one side has to win to prove that Ford is making a right decision.

This isn't about winning or losing an argument.

 

The Maztang was advanced as an example of faulty market research, in support of the notion that market research is not a reliable basis for product decisions.

 

I responded that the Maztang wasn't the result of market research and supplied a primary source supporting that.

 

The reason why this is relevant has nothing to do with winning or losing an argument.

 

It is relevant because the Maztang decision was made without any market research, and RangerM and FordBuyer appear to be asserting that the Ranger decision be made without regard to market research.

 

In short, the Maztang is an example of how they want decisions made.

[RichardJensen]

keeps me out of touch of with what Ford is doing.

It certainly keeps you out of touch with the rest of the country where, as you so particularly note, such things do not happen.

[Critic]

You mean like the Ford campus in Dearborn? Or WAP and DTP or even Wixom when it built Lincolns? Or would you be talking about Romeo Proving Grounds or Ford test track across from Greenfield Village. Or how about LTP plant down the street where my buddy drives Ford test mules from? You mean that Metro Detroit? Or how about my neighbors down block. One drives a Volt test mule and another drives a Kuga and C-Max regularly. Yeah, living in Metro Detroit keeps me out of touch of with what Ford is doing. I won't even bring up my other buddies who are engineers for Ford. You guys are just jealous, but won't admit it. I see more new, non camoed Explorers driving down the street than you see new Lincolns drive down yours. I have to admit we get kind of jaded by it all. The number one employee in Western Wayne County is still Ford Motor. And Ford is the best selling product here. Like Ford advertising likes to say..."This is Ford country."

 

When your sitting in a pot and getting cooked, it seems nice and warm at first.

And I test drove Ford vehicles for the company Interstate, which really means nothing,.

 

But if you have such an opportunity to see all these test vehicles, you could become a very rich man with pictures.

Also I know when my opinion is biased which it is, because I have a vested interest in Ford. I personally wouldn't want people to even think I lived near Detroit, it has to have one of the worst rep's of anywhere. So basically just because you see them all day and hear them too, doesn't make one an expert. The experts sit on wall street at a computer and make the judgements.

[rmc523]

You mean like the Ford campus in Dearborn? Or WAP and DTP or even Wixom when it built Lincolns? Or would you be talking about Romeo Proving Grounds or Ford test track across from Greenfield Village. Or how about LTP plant down the street where my buddy drives Ford test mules from? You mean that Metro Detroit? Or how about my neighbors down block. One drives a Volt test mule and another drives a Kuga and C-Max regularly. Yeah, living in Metro Detroit keeps me out of touch of with what Ford is doing. I won't even bring up my other buddies who are engineers for Ford. You guys are just jealous, but won't admit it. I see more new, non camoed Explorers driving down the street than you see new Lincolns drive down yours. I have to admit we get kind of jaded by it all. The number one employee in Western Wayne County is still Ford Motor. And Ford is the best selling product here. Like Ford advertising likes to say..."This is Ford country."

 

The issue is not necessarily that you're 'out of touch' with what Ford is doing (we quite evidently see you know what they're doing and obviously don't agree with just about anything coming out of the company these days), it's that you insist (or at least imply) all the time that Metro Detroit is 100% indicative of the entire country.

[OAC_Sparky]

None of that is proof.

 

PROVE that the Ranger 'sold decently when gas was $4 a gallon'

 

PROVE IT.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/01/2008-year-end-t.html

 

Even though the Ranger had a dated drivetrain in 2008 (I still own one) STILL sold 65,000 units, gained marketshare in a declining market. Notice the Tacoma figures? See what an updated drivetrain small truck with seating for four can do? 144,655 sales IN A DEPRESSED MARKET WITH HIGH GAS PRICES.

 

Let's put that into perspective, Richard. Toyota sold 144,655 Tacomas and Ford sold 520,144 F150s, F250s and F350s in the same year. For every 3 F-series trucks, the top of the heap number one truck, Toyota sold a Tacoma. The Tacoma outsold the Tundra, the Titan, and almost the GMC Sierra; and almost outsold every North American compact truck offering combined.

 

Nearly 400,000 compact truck sales a year. And you say there's no market. That's like GM killing the Sierra because there's "no market". Bullshit.

 

A decent effort by Ford could steal a TON of those sales away, but Ford is either too lazy to put in the effort or worried that a decent truck will steal F150 sales and Ford will lose the Pickup Sales crown.

[OAC_Sparky]

 

Yeah. Because Ford should take advice from people who don't buy their products.

Actually, it WAS Ford listening to people that don't buy their products that got the company to shift for the better.

 

You only ask the customers that bought your car "what can I do to make it better?", but you ask the person that won't buy it, "why not?" and then do what they suggest.

[Kris Kolman]

Let me get this right... T6 Ranger = 90% of an F150 right? And that the new V6 F150 can get similar fuel economy as the current Ranger, right?

 

F150 = 231 in Long and 79 in Wide (SuperCab 6.5 ft bed)

90% = 208 in Long and 71 in Wide (I'm sure this has been "rounded up" to prove a point)

Current Ranger = 204 in and 71 in Wide

 

In otherwords the T6 Ranger is no larger than the Current Ranger... The hyperbole was specificaly chosen to hide the truth. A compact truck falls right in at 90% the size of a fullsized truck.

 

Secondly while I congratulate what Ford has done with the 3.7L V6... Imagine what Ford could do with a truck <4000 lb vs. the 3 ton F150. Oh wait we don't need to imagine... The Edge gets 19 mpg City and 27 mpg Highway. This will beat the F150 by 5+ mpg in the real world, all due to another ton of extra weight on the mammoth pickup. And there is no reason why a Ranger with a similar powertrain as the F150 shouldn't be able to do the same... And opens up the option of a Ecoboost I4 that should beat that by another 2 mpg.

 

And finally the F150 CrewCab 4x4 starts at $33k... A fully loaded Ranger 4x4 is $27k, while a CrewCab should be no higher than $30k.

 

So in Ford's world I should be happy to pay more and get less for a mammoth truck 10% larger (20% heavier) than I need and pay more out of pocket for gas for the privelage. No thanks... A Nissan Frontier looks good to me.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Kris Kolman

[RichardJensen]

Notice the Tacoma figures?

irrelevant.

 

Further, I don't care how big the compact/midsize truck market is, it's shrinking.

 

Finally, if you think Ford's got a shot taking sales from Toyota, well you must've thought the Tundra was going to take sales from Ford.

[RichardJensen]

you ask the person that won't buy it, "why not?"

 

That only goes so far.

 

There's a difference between asking a guy who bought a Camry if he looked at a Fusion and reading AutoBlog comments.

 

AutoBlog comments are, like almost all internet commentary, generally useless. If the person is in the market, there are other, better ways of gauging his/her true feelings, and if he/she is not in the market, well who the heck cares what he thinks?

[Noah Harbinger]

http://news.pickuptr...year-end-t.html

 

Even though the Ranger had a dated drivetrain in 2008 (I still own one) STILL sold 65,000 units, gained marketshare in a declining market. Notice the Tacoma figures? See what an updated drivetrain small truck with seating for four can do? 144,655 sales IN A DEPRESSED MARKET WITH HIGH GAS PRICES.

 

Let's put that into perspective, Richard. Toyota sold 144,655 Tacomas and Ford sold 520,144 F150s, F250s and F350s in the same year. For every 3 F-series trucks, the top of the heap number one truck, Toyota sold a Tacoma. The Tacoma outsold the Tundra, the Titan, and almost the GMC Sierra; and almost outsold every North American compact truck offering combined.

 

Nearly 400,000 compact truck sales a year. And you say there's no market. That's like GM killing the Sierra because there's "no market". Bullshit.

 

A decent effort by Ford could steal a TON of those sales away, but Ford is either too lazy to put in the effort or worried that a decent truck will steal F150 sales and Ford will lose the Pickup Sales crown.

 

 

Am I misreading that? It seems to say that compact & midsize truck sales fell 24% in a year that overall automobile sales fell 18%. In other words, the smaller truck market was shrinking faster than the overall auto market, even during the year that saw record gas prices - the exact conditions you would expect would drive truck buyers to smaller offerings.

 

How, again, does this indicate that the compact truck market is a good investment?

Edited September 21, 2010 by Noah Harbinger

[RichardJensen]

a mammoth truck 20% larger than I need

10%, remember? 10%.

 

BTW: It's all about whose ox is gored. Some of the Ranger mafia scoffed at the panther mafia, and here they are making the same arguments: "Ford should keep making the Ranger even though they lose money on it because I want to buy it and won't buy anything else." occasionally interspersed with, "If Ford only IMPROVED the Ranger they'd sell more and it would be profitable," and "Don't kid yourself, they're making money on the Ranger."

 

replace Ranger with 'minivan' or any of the panthers and look at what you've got. The same argument we've seen over and over and over.

 

No one is saying there aren't legitimate Ranger customers.

 

The problem is there are dang few of them compared to the "I'll be hanged before Ford makes a dime on ME" customers.

Edited September 21, 2010 by RichardJensen

[theoldwizard]

The Ranger is not about entering every market segment, it's about not vacating a market Ford has been in for decades. It's about not letting a potentially very successful nameplate die on the vine. The Ranger needs a new drivetrain, new greenhouse, new interior, and thus could be a competitive product in a market all to itself as others are more midsized.

The Ranger (and the E150 and Crown Vic) does not meet future safety standards. It would need a lot of work to meet the new standards.

 

It also needs to move up to the mid-size market, so basically they would be starting from scratch.

 

Personally, I think the F150 needs to shrink a bit.

[theoldwizard]

Mulally is the one who keeps saying SMALL, medium, and large cars and trucks.

He also says each vehicle needs to be profitable !

 

Rangers sold well when they were heavily discounted.

[Kris Kolman]

Made the correction... 10% size, which equals 20% of the weight (~4000 lb vs ~5000 lb).

 

Didn't say weather or this was the right buisness decision... Just blowing thru the marketing BS that anyone who wants a Ranger can be convinced to move up to a F150. And I won't even begin to explain why they think someone like me who keeps around a 12 yr old PU for "dirty work" would be satisfied with a Fiesta. Like an old dog I now see the end of the Ranger, and think with my next purchase will consolidate my PU and my dailey driver (the Volvo). A F150 doesn't fit my needs, and I don't beleive in the bigger is better... So if Ford doesn't make a compact truck than they won't be on the list.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Kris Kolman

[theoldwizard]

I bet Ford either goes ahead with the shelved F-100 program, or introduces a special light duty version of the F-150.

I agree with the later. I don't know about light duty, but the are crazy if they don't make a "budget" version with the V6 and minimal options.

[theoldwizard]

Here is the way I see it.

 

Short term (next 3 - 5 years) Ford needs to maximize its profits and pay down their debt. Modifying the T6 to meet US safety and emission standards does not fit that goal.

 

This does NOT leave out the possibility of a mid-size truck in the future.

 

FYI - Ford is struggling with modifying the Transit to replace the E150, a market they feel they CAN make profit in.

[jpd80]

How can the "Global" Ranger be global if its not even available in the most important end of the Western Hemisphere? Not offering it here certainly breaks from Mulally global plan. As was stated earlier, the global Ranger probably weighs close to one ton less than porky F-150.

As said before, there is wiggle room with "One Ford" where a regional market dictates a unique vehicle.

North America is such a big market that it can command its own F150 and SD vehicles

 

Think of it this way, Global Ranger is the "F150" for the rest of the fuel conscious world.

[OAC_Sparky]

In otherwords the T6 Ranger is no larger than the Current Ranger... The hyperbole was specificaly chosen to hide the truth. A compact truck falls right in at 90% the size of a fullsized truck.

Yes, I mentioned this around post #96 but nobody else seemed to notice this fact. As well as that's also adding real seating for 4 people.

 

irrelevant.

 

Further, I don't care how big the compact/midsize truck market is, it's shrinking.

 

Finally, if you think Ford's got a shot taking sales from Toyota, well you must've thought the Tundra was going to take sales from Ford.

Irrelevant? Are you fracking kidding me? Edge sales -- 130,125(2007) 110,798(2008) 88,548(2009). Are they irrelevant too?

Fusion sales 149,552(2007) 147,569(2008) same time period -- they must be almost irrelevant too seeing the Tacoma had only 145000 sales, notwithstanding the Fusion did hit 180,671 last year.

 

I guess Ford was stupid to make the Fusion thinking it might take away Camry sales. The Camry had 436,617 sales in 2008 to the Fusion's 147,569 --- wow, look! same ratio of DATED Ranger to Tacoma. Oh, but strangely enough, in 2009 it was 356,824 vs 180,671, a large improvement. Which goes to show that if Ford actually makes an effort it CAN steal sales from Toyota; especially in light of the problems Toyota had with frame rot.

 

That only goes so far.

 

There's a difference between asking a guy who bought a Camry if he looked at a Fusion and reading AutoBlog comments.

 

AutoBlog comments are, like almost all internet commentary, generally useless. If the person is in the market, there are other, better ways of gauging his/her true feelings, and if he/she is not in the market, well who the heck cares what he thinks?

Same could be said about BON's resident experts, but we're still writing about it.

 

I don't really care if you're a cheerleader or an apologist. You clearly don't understand the small truck consumer. There is a need for them; as stated before, there are nearly a half a million North American compact truck sales a year. That's a bigger slice of pie than what Ford invested into with the Taurus Police Interceptor. I daresay that whatever modifications necessary to bring the Global Ranger to North America would be less than the outlay done to do the PI project and result in as many or more sales.

 

 

Am I misreading that? It seems to say that compact & midsize truck sales fell 24% in a year that overall automobile sales fell 18%. In other words, the smaller truck market was shrinking faster than the overall auto market, even during the year that saw record gas prices - the exact conditions you would expect would drive truck buyers to smaller offerings.

 

How, again, does this indicate that the compact truck market is a good investment?

If you look at the figures, ALL truck sales fell 24% in 2008. High fuel cost coupled with the economic downturn, fewer construction starts and tighter credit was the root cause. Edited September 21, 2010 by OAC_Sparky

[OAC_Sparky]

BTW: It's all about whose ox is gored. Some of the Ranger mafia scoffed at the panther mafia, and here they are making the same arguments: "Ford should keep making the Ranger even though they lose money on it because I want to buy it and won't buy anything else." occasionally interspersed with, "If Ford only IMPROVED the Ranger they'd sell more and it would be profitable," and "Don't kid yourself, they're making money on the Ranger."

The thing you're forgetting here is that Ford replaced the Panther's needs -- large car/taxi/cop car with something remotely similar. They didn't insult our intelligence by suggesting that we put cops into a Fiesta or a Transit Connect.