2012 Really the Year of the Thunderbird

[JLaudioF150]

I found this on the web after looking up 1988 Thunderbird TCs on the web. There is a pretty nice one selling on Ebay btw…

 

It mentions 2012 being the year of the Thunderbird and 2010 being the year of the Mustang. Seems to be more rumor that anything substantial. If by 2010 being for the year of the Mustang they are referring about introducing the 5.0, then that makes sense. But what about a Thunderbird (or perhaps a prototype) for 2012 would that completely be out of the question? Given Mulallys record, I do believe the question has been brought up. I mean, he was the one asking Wheres the Taurus?

 

Walking into the Thunderbird meeting room day in day out, Im sure hes pondered it. I wouldnt be in the market for one, especially if its a two-seater, but I wonder how viable it would be to share the cars platform with something new from Lincoln, the Fusion/MKZ or even offering it with a small 6cyl or 4cyl Turbo…

 

Old news I guess, but interesting nonetheless.

Edited December 16, 2010 by JLaudioF150

[Moosetang]

It mentions 2012 being the year of the Thunderbird and 2010 being the year of the Mustang.

The general consensus seems to be this may have been the plan a few years ago, but things have changed. I wouldn't rule out the return of the T-bird name in a few years, but I don't think 2012 is the Year of the T-Bird.

[wildosvt]

Ive heard some rumors of AAI getting another 2 door soon. So its either a T-Bird or a Lincoln.

[Sevensecondsuv]

Ive heard some rumors of AAI getting another 2 door soon. So its either a T-Bird or a Lincoln.

 

Please don't let it be Fusion or Taurus based. Ford doesn't need a Ford version of the "two-door Impalla" Monte Carlo. It would just be injustice to the Thunderbird name.

[saintlaz1]

Please don't let it be Fusion or Taurus based. Ford doesn't need a Ford version of the "two-door Impalla" Monte Carlo. It would just be injustice to the Thunderbird name.

 

I would disagree, i would not do what they did with the last generation making it way to niche and expensive. A would be a 2 door T-Bird coupe in a minute (now that I have no Cougar to hope for) if it was Taurus or Fusion base; Fusion based makes more sense to me, you can have hybird share powerplants; something to fight Accord/Altima Coupes which look way better then their sedan counterparts.

[LincolnV]

I would disagree, i would not do what they did with the last generation making it way to niche and expensive. A would be a 2 door T-Bird coupe in a minute (now that I have no Cougar to hope for) if it was Taurus or Fusion base; Fusion based makes more sense to me, you can have hybird share powerplants; something to fight Accord/Altima Coupes which look way better then their sedan counterparts.

 

Unless Ford intends to respect the lineage of the T-bird, I would prefer they leave it to the history books. IMO it is light years ahead in stature in comparison to what the Accord/Altima coupes bring to the table. Yes, Ford has had a couple of Thunderbird "turkeys" in its history - 1980 first comes to mind (it was essentially a 2-door deluxe Fairmont) and the version released in 1977 cheapened the brand as well sharing its drivetrain/dashboard and other components with the LTD II (2-door, 4-door and wagon) and Mercury Cougar (XR7, 2-door, 4-door and wagon). However, it sold like crazy because the price was a lot more affordable than it had been when it was sharing components with the Mark IV.

 

I've always liked the 2002 T-bird because Ford took a gamble on regaining what the Thunderbird once stood for. That being said, it had a few things going against it the first being that it was a 2-seater (Ford's own history with the Thunderbird shows that a 4-seater will sell better than a 2-seater). Had the target market for it been broader, the prices being charged might have been lower and would have helped to sell more.

 

IMO a two-door based on the Fusion or Taurus just doesn't make a T-bird.

Edited December 20, 2010 by LincolnV

[OAC_Sparky]

Unless Ford intends to respect the lineage of the T-bird, I would prefer they leave it to the history books. IMO it is light years ahead in stature in comparison to what the Accord/Altima coupes bring to the table. Yes, Ford has had a couple of Thunderbird "turkeys" in its history - 1980 first comes to mind (it was essentially a 2-door deluxe Fairmont) and the version released in 1977 cheapened the brand as well sharing its drivetrain/dashboard and other components with the LTD II (2-door, 4-door and wagon) and Mercury Cougar (XR7, 2-door, 4-door and wagon). However, it sold like crazy because the price was a lot more affordable than it had been when it was sharing components with the Mark IV.

 

I've always liked the 2002 T-bird because Ford took a gamble on regaining what the Thunderbird once stood for. That being said, it had a few things going against it the first being that it was a 2-seater (Ford's own history with the Thunderbird shows that a 4-seater will sell better than a 2-seater). Had the target market for it been broader, the prices being charged might have been lower and would have helped to sell more.

 

IMO a two-door based on the Fusion or Taurus just doesn't make a T-bird.

The biggest problem I found as I saw it was that for the price they were asking for it it should have had Mustang GT performance. It didn't.

 

It's still a mental hurdle Ford has to get over, is about (not) making vehicles that perform as well as a Mustang.

[2b2]

...(now that I have no Cougar to hope for)...

my motto:

Never forget... Never Forgive...

(but)

NEVER GIVE UP!

 

&

Tbird serving suggestion

[akirby]

The biggest problem I found as I saw it was that for the price they were asking for it it should have had Mustang GT performance. It didn't.

 

That's because it was built on the extremely expensive and performance limited DEW98 platform like the lincoln ls.

 

The Jag AJV8 was sweet but can't compare to the new Ford 5.0L for price/performance.

[ANTAUS]

I don't see a 2 door based on the D3/4 platform though because of the expense associated with it, so I think it's safe to say that wont be it. I think it'll be easy to Lincolnize a Mustang (can they stretch the wheelbase for some rear seat room?) If they go this route, it means they are willing to keep the Mustang platform around for some time.

 

If it's AAI, I would figure it's a Focus based one, Ford already has the Focus CC, and Volvo C70 for experience. I dont think they'll invest the expense on a Fusion based one, since they are moving to the newer Mondeo platform. I have said for awhile now that Ford needs a coupe under the Mustang, since the Mustang is going up in price and performance. I think something slotting under the Mustang will sell at much higher rates. and gain sales. Whereas if they are thinking of a Lincolnized Mustang, than they will price it pretty high to make up for the lower volume it'll sell at.

 

As for a Tbird, it would have to be what the Mustang isn't...since the Mustang is good at many things (except rear seat space), then that might be the answer, but are people buying coupes really care much about the passengers in the back? (I dont even care about mine with a 4dr! And I'm not buying a DVD entertainment package for the rear seat to entertain children because they dont know how to shut up...in my time, you got a whack across the head, and saved the $1000).... So if they DO plan to do something LIKE a Tbird (Mustang with larger rear seat), I rather they Lincolnize it and go for a premium price for it too.

 

Oh and if thats the case, no more droppy assed cars please...The last Tbird had the "reverse wedge", urrggg, and the MKT reminds me of droopy asses again.

[OAC_Sparky]

That's because it was built on the extremely expensive and performance limited DEW98 platform like the lincoln ls.

Agreed; but the point I was trying to make was that the '02 TBird was presented as a retro roadster aimed at 40-something males but didn't have the balls to back it up. If you're going to aim a car at a man in a midlife crisis you don't beat him down again by having him eat dust from a car $10G cheaper.

 

The customer doesn't care what platform it's built on, he cares about the end result and that's why it failed.

[BORG]

Ford already has a coupe, it's called a Mustang. A luxury coupe market is gone and never returning. If Ford wants a coupe, it will need to appeal to the core consumer (young), and T-bird won't do it. A Fusion or Focuse coupe is a good idea, I'd like to see that.

[RangerM]

Didn't Ford say that the T-bird (2002) was intended as a temporary (something they'd only make for a little while, and then kill it) product? Or was that simply a way to lower expectations?

[JZ150]

The T-Bird is the perfect way for Ford to build a performance car with the 3.5L EB without confusing the Mustang line up.

[Fgts]

From what i read looks like a Stang based Lincoln coupe will be made at AAI around the 13-14' range, but nothing indicating a rwd sedan from Ford N/A nor a large rwd coupe . Looks like the CTS coupe will get domestic competion, also a 2nd LX based coupe is under consideration for Chrysler and it will be for Chrysler divison around 14-15' range.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

If it's AAI, I would figure it's a Focus based one, Ford already has the Focus CC, and Volvo C70 for experience. I dont think they'll invest the expense on a Fusion based one, since they are moving to the newer Mondeo platform. I have said for awhile now that Ford needs a coupe under the Mustang, since the Mustang is going up in price and performance. I think something slotting under the Mustang will sell at much higher rates. and gain sales. Whereas if they are thinking of a Lincolnized Mustang, than they will price it pretty high to make up for the lower volume it'll sell at.

 

As for a Tbird, it would have to be what the Mustang isn't...since the Mustang is good at many things (except rear seat space), then that might be the answer, but are people buying coupes really care much about the passengers in the back? (I dont even care about mine with a 4dr! And I'm not buying a DVD entertainment package for the rear seat to entertain children because they dont know how to shut up...in my time, you got a whack across the head, and saved the $1000).... So if they DO plan to do something LIKE a Tbird (Mustang with larger rear seat), I rather they Lincolnize it and go for a premium price for it too.

 

Oh and if thats the case, no more droppy assed cars please...The last Tbird had the "reverse wedge", urrggg, and the MKT reminds me of droopy asses again.

 

Focus CC is being scrapped when the next generation Focus comes out, its roof leaked like a sieve it got such a bad reputation that nobody touched one sales were very poor indeed. Its reputation has been tarnished on the Focus.

 

Ford need to build a purpose made convertible world car, it has to be the T-Bird and on a RWD platform. Ford without a Thunderbird in its line-up seems so wrong.

 

Renault sell quite a nice convertible in Europe that would fit nicely on the Fiesta platform.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2010 by Ford Jellymoulds

[saintlaz1]

Ford already has a coupe, it's called a Mustang. A luxury coupe market is gone and never returning. If Ford wants a coupe, it will need to appeal to the core consumer (young), and T-bird won't do it. A Fusion or Focuse coupe is a good idea, I'd like to see that.

 

I think you are wrong. Coupes are slowly starting to get more attention, some companies have done a great job selling coupes that look even better than their sedan counterpart. Altima, Accord and CTS. there is a good market of people that still want coupes and Ford has only one offering. im not counting the current Focus coupe which is a automotive abortion only Mustang.

 

if Lincoln gets a coupe i wouldnt mind seeing an MKZ turn into one. A mustang varient is great but i think may turn out to be too expensive.

 

Ford needs to get rolling with a Tbird Coupe and would perfer to see it not be retro but a modern take.

[BORG]

I think you are wrong. Coupes are slowly starting to get more attention, some companies have done a great job selling coupes that look even better than their sedan counterpart. Altima, Accord and CTS. there is a good market of people that still want coupes and Ford has only one offering. im not counting the current Focus coupe which is a automotive abortion only Mustang.

 

if Lincoln gets a coupe i wouldnt mind seeing an MKZ turn into one. A mustang varient is great but i think may turn out to be too expensive.

 

Ford needs to get rolling with a Tbird Coupe and would perfer to see it not be retro but a modern take.

 

I think Ford is in a tricky situation because they already have the Mustang, those other companies don't have Mustangs in their lineup (which until recently, was the bestselling coupe in the country). I don't think Ford can fit in another coupe too close to the Mustang price-point (Like a CD3 based car). My guess is if anybody is going to get a new coupe at FoMoCo, it's going to be the Focus or Lincoln. Lincoln could get a next-gen Mustang based coupe, but it will never get a dedicated coupe based on the MKZ unless Ford also benefits...the volume at Lincoln is extremely low and the risks on a new coupe line are pretty high so a rebadge Mustang makes the most sense. I really don't think Lincoln can sell a coupe however, they don't have those type of customers and building one doesn't mean they'll get them.

[LincolnV]

My guess is if anybody is going to get a new coupe at FoMoCo, it's going to be the Focus or Lincoln. Lincoln could get a next-gen Mustang based coupe, but it will never get a dedicated coupe based on the MKZ unless Ford also benefits...the volume at Lincoln is extremely low and the risks on a new coupe line are pretty high so a rebadge Mustang makes the most sense. I really don't think Lincoln can sell a coupe however, they don't have those type of customers and building one doesn't mean they'll get them.

 

IMO - If the objective is to eventually offer Lincoln in Europe, then the chance of a coupe as part of their model range increases.

 

As for the Thunderbird, Ford could go the route of building a "4-door" coupe (since the Thunderbird offered a 4-door in the 60's).

[ANTAUS]

I dont think Ford knows what to really make of Lincoln...its like, throwing something on the wall and watching what will stick. They designed the MKS to be unremarkable in no special way and says have been less than steller. The MkZ is trying to be a better ES350, but it's not setting the world on fire. The MKX has done decently for them, but they were aiming for RX the first time around, i think they have it right this time. Then you have Buick trying to beat Lexus at their game, and their products are very close in various ways, but that'll take time to nurture.

 

The mantra before was American luxury, and redefining it. Cadillac now seems to be using that spin too, and even the new 'refreshened' Chrysler 300 is calling itself American Luxury sedan. But I think most forgot what American luxury was, and for those that DO remember, the consumers Don't want it.

 

If Lincoln is truely wanting to be Lexus-like, well Lexus killed it's coupe (no s--t, it didnt have a redo in probably a decade!), so No Lexus coupe, No Lincoln coupe. personally, I'm just tired of the wishy washiness. This is another hash of "oh oh, we are reinventing the brand", and I'm not seeing anything of the sort. Just frustrating...

[2b2]

I dont think Ford knows what to really make of Lincoln..."oh oh, we are reinventing the brand", and I'm not seeing anything of the sort. Just frustrating...

Agree

tho part me is hoping NAIAS will answer questions & provide reassurance

another part keeps wondering if saving Lincoln is even their real plan

& that "One Ford" needs to be interpreted brutally-literally

 

 

 

 

IMO - If the objective is to eventually offer Lincoln in Europe, then the chance of a coupe as part of their model range increases.

 

As for the Thunderbird, Ford could go the route of building a "4-door" coupe (since the Thunderbird offered a 4-door in the 60's).

&