MT: 300 Beats Genesis

[Fgts]

The 300 handled the Gen. sedan in fit / finish, price and dispite the 300 having 20+ less hp, 1 less gear and more weight it out accelerate the Genny.

 

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1104_2011_chrysler_300c_hyundai_genesis_comparison/specs.html

[TomServo92]

The 300 did it on unleaded fuel too. The Genesis requires premium.

[timmm55]

The 300 handled the Gen. sedan in fit / finish, price and dispite the 300 having 20+ less hp, 1 less gear and more weight it out accelerate the Genny.

 

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1104_2011_chrysler_300c_hyundai_genesis_comparison/specs.html

 

Actually they gave a slight advantage in fit/finish to the Genesis. The 300 also had a better ride, an important area for a luxury car.

Geez, shouldn't Lincoln be playing in this game? With something?

[ANTAUS]

Wow thats one of those very hard decisions to make. Its like "HM, if you won your choice of either car, which would you pick"..I usually answer with "I'll take the more expensive one, and trade it in the next day for something better". But if your forced to keep a few years because the company made you sign such a clause on the contract, Hmmmm, just very hard. I dont trust either cars long term.

[esevans]

Wow thats one of those very hard decisions to make. Its like "HM, if you won your choice of either car, which would you pick"..I usually answer with "I'll take the more expensive one, and trade it in the next day for something better". But if your forced to keep a few years because the company made you sign such a clause on the contract, Hmmmm, just very hard. I dont trust either cars long term.

 

Then Hyundai wins. When you buy a new car, you're counting on the company to stand behind it. Hyundai has a longer warranty, and will probably be around to service your powertrain for 10 years. Chrysler will probably be around in 5 years to service their powertrain, but who knows?

[Ron W.]

OOPS - WRONG THREAD , explains that error window lol

Edited March 6, 2011 by Ron W.

[ANTAUS]

Well thats the issue my friends are having with Hyundai and Kia, yeah sounds great by it's very nature, it still doesn't detract they have an unreliable car and have to take it to the dealership for service. I have one that boasted how much she loves her Kia because of the 10 year warranty and now shes into it on it's 4th year and at this point shes looking to dump it because every other month it's something different...like I tell her "yeah you have that 10 year warranty though, so it's ok", and shes like "hm still, it doesnt mean I get paid for the hours I spend to get it fixed".

[RichardJensen]

shouldn't Lincoln be playing in this game?

Against Hyundai and Chrysler? I don't think so.

[akirby]

Well thats the issue my friends are having with Hyundai and Kia, yeah sounds great by it's very nature, it still doesn't detract they have an unreliable car and have to take it to the dealership for service. I have one that boasted how much she loves her Kia because of the 10 year warranty and now shes into it on it's 4th year and at this point shes looking to dump it because every other month it's something different...like I tell her "yeah you have that 10 year warranty though, so it's ok", and shes like "hm still, it doesnt mean I get paid for the hours I spend to get it fixed".

 

Wife's grandmother had an old Curtis Mathes TV that had to be repaired at least twice a year. When she decided to buy a new one she said she wanted a new Curtis Mathes. I asked her why and she said "because they come to my house to fix it when it needs repairs". I told her if she bought a better TV she wouldn't need any repairs to begin with. She had never considered the possibility.

[Fgts]

Then Hyundai wins. When you buy a new car, you're counting on the company to stand behind it. Hyundai has a longer warranty, and will probably be around to service your powertrain for 10 years. Chrysler will probably be around in 5 years to service their powertrain, but who knows?

 

So from a company that had bad luck from 2 crappy owners but now have a clean(er) slate that built tanks, spacecraft, Imperials, Letter cars, mucsle classics and now a great truck, cars and minivans won't be around in "5 years" vs the one that made Scoupes and Excels?. Just today iv'e seen many 80-90 Chryslers on the street even a 79' Volare. When's the last time you've seen a 95' Sonata or even a 00' Elantra?, i haven't and i live in a city that loves imports.

[RichardJensen]

won't be around in "5 years"

They're owned by a company that is hardly a picture of stability, led by a guy whose business acumen barely extends beyond his ability to get things for free.

[6t5frlane]

Against Hyundai and Chrysler? I don't think so.

 

Well maybe they should. Not too many Lincoln's flying off the lots these days

[RichardJensen]

Well maybe they should. Not too many Lincoln's flying off the lots these days

And the solution is to sell $35k full size cars? I don't think so.

[aneekr]

Well thats the issue my friends are having with Hyundai and Kia, yeah sounds great by it's very nature, it still doesn't detract they have an unreliable car and have to take it to the dealership for service. I have one that boasted how much she loves her Kia because of the 10 year warranty and now shes into it on it's 4th year and at this point shes looking to dump it because every other month it's something different...like I tell her "yeah you have that 10 year warranty though, so it's ok", and shes like "hm still, it doesnt mean I get paid for the hours I spend to get it fixed".

Products from any automaker can exhibit issues. In recent reliability surveys, Hyundai has done quite well; Chrysler hasn't.

[esevans]

So from a company that had bad luck from 2 crappy owners but now have a clean(er) slate that built tanks, spacecraft, Imperials, Letter cars, mucsle classics and now a great truck, cars and minivans won't be around in "5 years" vs the one that made Scoupes and Excels?. Just today iv'e seen many 80-90 Chryslers on the street even a 79' Volare. When's the last time you've seen a 95' Sonata or even a 00' Elantra?, i haven't and i live in a city that loves imports.

 

Reread my post. I never said Chrysler won't be around in 5 years.

 

I too live in a city that loves imports. ~30K college students in a county that has 160K pop., what do you think they drive? No I don't see 95 Sonata's or 00 Elantras. For that matter, I don't see that many mid 90's Honda's, Toyota's, or Chrysler's. I rarely see <1999 Mustangs on the road. Does that put them on par with Scoupes and Excels? Not in my eyes. Not many people care to keep their mid 90's crackerbox on the road, unless their next choice is a moped.

 

If you equate today's Hyundai with the Excel, you're kidding yourself.

 

I've also owned 3 Chrysler/Dodge's circa 80's-90's. I don't miss them. I don't really miss any of my cars from that era. Wouldn't mind having a Chrysler muscle car. However, nothing in their current stable is all that impressive to me. I'd consider spending money for a Challenger, I'd look at Ram truck, If I wanted a big RWD sedan, the 300 might be good, I'd take a 200 and whatever else they have and try to sell it to the nearest dealer and buy something worthwhile. Like on their SUV's all you want, but gas is $3.50 here, and alot of people have lost interest in them.

 

Whatever Chrysler built in the distant past is meaningless as to whether or not they will be a viable concern going forward.

 

Antaus said : "I don't trust either cars long term."

 

My point was, if you don't trust the cars long term, with everything else being equal, you got to go with the company you can trust long term. I'm pretty sure Hyundai will be here and able to honor their powertrain warranty in 10years. If Fiat pulls the plug in the next year, would Chrysler make it the next four? I don't know. Maybe they're in good shape. I can't invest in them, so I don't keep track. But after the events of the last few years and the Fiat rescue, my default is to be less than optimistic about Chrysler until I see otherwise.

[DEREKC]

Hyundai has the advantage, as they simply followed the same slow and steady path taken by Toyota.

 

Chrysler has next to nothing to work with, and no plan to move forward. I cannot see them being around very long, and lets not bail them out this time please!

[FordBuyer]

Hyundai has the advantage, as they simply followed the same slow and steady path taken by Toyota.

 

Chrysler has next to nothing to work with, and no plan to move forward. I cannot see them being around very long, and lets not bail them out this time please!

 

Except for Ford, it's amazing to me how many posters on this board want to see the American auto industry go down the toilet and never return. All those jobs, suppliers, plants, retirees, and whole communities headed to oblivion and public assistance. It's almost like GM and Chrysler have no past and never paid out billions in taxes over many decades to U.S. Treasury and to local communities. It's like they have no social and economic value. Two American Presidents saw value in GM and Chrysler, but hardly anyone on here sees any value in them. All because Ford didn't take a bailout, but did take big bucks in government loans that GM declined. So all that good that GM did throughout the 19th Century is meaningless to the internet generation. I wouldn't even want to imagine what this country would look like without two of the Big Three. Just look at company town Dayton (GM/Delphi) today to see new America without an American based auto industry. Long live GM and Chrysler. And I would never buy from either company.

[Fgts]

Reread my post. I never said Chrysler won't be around in 5 years.

 

"Chrysler will probably be around in 5 years to service their powertrain, but who knows?"

 

I too live in a city that loves imports. ~30K college students in a county that has 160K pop., what do you think they drive? No I don't see 95 Sonata's or 00 Elantras. For that matter, I don't see that many mid 90's Honda's, Toyota's, or Chrysler's. I rarely see <1999 Mustangs on the road. Does that put them on par with Scoupes and Excels? Not in my eyes. Not many people care to keep their mid 90's crackerbox on the road, unless their next choice is a moped.

 

If you equate today's Hyundai with the Excel, you're kidding yourself.

 

Try a real city of 600,000+ with 4 million metro area and 4 major universitys, yes i do see many 90's Honyotas even 80'-90' Taurus,Stangs and Tbirds. This is America people don't let crap go so easily there's still people out there that the Taurus still have the 3.8 head gasket problem of the 90's it's going to be the same with Hyundai and the trash they made back then.

 

I've also owned 3 Chrysler/Dodge's circa 80's-90's. I don't miss them. I don't really miss any of my cars from that era. Wouldn't mind having a Chrysler muscle car. However, nothing in their current stable is all that impressive to me. I'd consider spending money for a Challenger, I'd look at Ram truck, If I wanted a big RWD sedan, the 300 might be good, I'd take a 200 and whatever else they have and try to sell it to the nearest dealer and buy something worthwhile. Like on their SUV's all you want, but gas is $3.50 here, and alot of people have lost interest in them.

 

So that means the F-series is doomed too right?, because Ford/Chrysler sold plenty of trucks last month with $3.00 gas. Ford had no Ecoboost or world class anything when gas was first $3.50 and why the hell so many people talk out thier ass about $8.00 gas prices just when the economy went to hell and gas was $1.80 again in 09'. i don't trust gas to stay at a price point and i won't buy a car based off it. Back to the point Just like the case of Ford had to wait for fuel sippers to hit the market Chrysler will have time too, it's not like the 300, Ram Cherokee don't have a competive v-6 or 200, Avenger don't have 4-bangers.

 

Whatever Chrysler built in the distant past is meaningless as to whether or not they will be a viable concern going forward.

 

Antaus said : "I don't trust either cars long term."

 

My point was, if you don't trust the cars long term, with everything else being equal, you got to go with the company you can trust long term. I'm pretty sure Hyundai will be here and able to honor their powertrain warranty in 10years. If Fiat pulls the plug in the next year, would Chrysler make it the next four? I don't know. Maybe they're in good shape. I can't invest in them, so I don't keep track. But after the events of the last few years and the Fiat rescue, my default is to be less than optimistic about Chrysler until I see otherwise.

 

Well that your opinions but don't pass them for facts.

 

Edited March 8, 2011 by Fgts

[silvrsvt]

Except for Ford, it's amazing to me how many posters on this board want to see the American auto industry go down the toilet and never return. All those jobs, suppliers, plants, retirees, and whole communities headed to oblivion and public assistance. It's almost like GM and Chrysler have no past and never paid out billions in taxes over many decades to U.S. Treasury and to local communities. It's like they have no social and economic value. Two American Presidents saw value in GM and Chrysler, but hardly anyone on here sees any value in them. All because Ford didn't take a bailout, but did take big bucks in government loans that GM declined. So all that good that GM did throughout the 19th Century is meaningless to the internet generation. I wouldn't even want to imagine what this country would look like without two of the Big Three. Just look at company town Dayton (GM/Delphi) today to see new America without an American based auto industry. Long live GM and Chrysler. And I would never buy from either company.

 

Your a friggen idiot!

[Millertime]

Your a friggen idiot!

 

I love the irony

[RichardJensen]

Except for Ford, it's amazing to me how many posters on this board want to see the American auto industry go down the toilet

It's more like this:

 

We're disgusted that the idiots at GM screwed up their business so badly that the government gave them $60 billion, and that Daimler and Cerberus screwed up Chrysler so badly that the government gave them to Fiat, and that neither company seems to have made meaningful changes in the way they do business.

 

Tell me why anyone should be proud of GM or proud of Chrysler. Tell me why anyone should be 'cheering' for those two companies? What have they done to cheer about? They defaulted on their obligations, stiffed their creditors, got big fat bundles of cash from the Federal government, and emerged on the other side without learning a damned thing.

 

Tell me what sort of 'feel good' story there is with GM and Chrysler? That a bunch of idiots almost caused the collapse of the state of Michigan and were shielded from the consequences of their stupidity by the Feds?

 

That's something to feel good about?

 

Oh, yay, a bunch of idiots damn near destroyed a whole fricking state, but the federal government gave them billions in borrowed money and saved the day.

 

This disaster was 40 flippin' years in the making, and these airheaded yay-hoos at GM and Chrysler would have you believe that it was just a little bump--an unfortunate combination of circumstances.

 

WRONG: 40 years of bad management caused this problem, and that same lousy rotten discredited vacuous short sighted arrogant pompous insulated pinheaded narrow minded oblivious stuffed shirt job filling you-scratch-my-back culture is firmly entrenched at GM and Chrysler, and you're saying that we should be celebrating that?

 

Look FB: If things don't change at GM and Chrysler, they'll end up exactly where they were two year ago.

[aneekr]

It's more like this:

 

We're disgusted that the idiots at GM screwed up their business so badly that the government gave them $60 billion, and that Daimler and Cerberus screwed up Chrysler so badly that the government gave them to Fiat, and that neither company seems to have made meaningful changes in the way they do business.

 

Tell me why anyone should be proud of GM or proud of Chrysler. Tell me why anyone should be 'cheering' for those two companies? What have they done to cheer about? They defaulted on their obligations, stiffed their creditors, got big fat bundles of cash from the Federal government, and emerged on the other side without learning a damned thing.

 

Tell me what sort of 'feel good' story there is with GM and Chrysler? That a bunch of idiots almost caused the collapse of the state of Michigan and were shielded from the consequences of their stupidity by the Feds?

 

That's something to feel good about?

 

Oh, yay, a bunch of idiots damn near destroyed a whole fricking state, but the federal government gave them billions in borrowed money and saved the day.

 

This disaster was 40 flippin' years in the making, and these airheaded yay-hoos at GM and Chrysler would have you believe that it was just a little bump--an unfortunate combination of circumstances.

 

WRONG: 40 years of bad management caused this problem, and that same lousy rotten discredited vacuous short sighted arrogant pompous insulated pinheaded narrow minded oblivious stuffed shirt job filling you-scratch-my-back culture is firmly entrenched at GM and Chrysler, and you're saying that we should be celebrating that?

 

Look FB: If things don't change at GM and Chrysler, they'll end up exactly where they were two year ago.

I hope moderators can be nominated for a "Post of the Week" contribution, because this one deserves it. The truths RichardJensen uttered here need to be acknowledged far and wide.

Edited March 8, 2011 by aneekr

[aneekr]

Just look at company town Dayton (GM/Delphi) today to see new America without an American based auto industry.

The same Dayton, Ohio where following the decline of GM and Delphi, local leaders made significant efforts to diversify the local economy, utilizing the strengths of Wright-Patterson AFB as a cornerstone? The Dayton that in 2010 was rated one of the best cities for college grads?

 

If this aspect of Dayton and SW Ohio represents the "new America", I'll interpret it as a positive development.