FordBuyer Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 By not bad at all I mean not bad at all. I don't even notice it. Any corrections I might subconsciously make to keep the vehicle pointed straight go entirely unnoticed by me. :shrug: The Mustang, by comparison, certainly takes a lot more concentration to keep pointed straight at WOT from a stop. Maybe you'll get lucky and the next generation Mustang will be FWD with 450hp and 400 lbs. of torque and you can hhave fun steering with one hand while you shift 6 speed gear box with other hand and try to keep vehicle on road. Bring the Probe GT back :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 You Ford slappies can beat up on the auto reviewers all you want, but I'll tell you what....I want to replace my Taurus with probably and 2nd or third year new generation Focus, and I don't want MFT touch at all. Just give me normal switch gear and 12 volt plug for my Tom Tom and I'm all set. You can have that smudged up looking touch pad. MFT isn't standard on the Focus...so what are you complaining about? :blah: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Maybe you'll get lucky and the next generation Mustang will be FWD with 450hp and 400 lbs. of torque and you can hhave fun steering with one hand while you shift 6 speed gear box with other hand and try to keep vehicle on road. Bring the Probe GT back :happy feet: Fordbuyer...have you ever really driven a good handling FWD vehicle?....somehow I doubt it.....and careful in the Boxster when lifting off the throttle mid corner..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Maybe you'll get lucky and the next generation Mustang will be FWD with 450hp and 400 lbs. of torque and you can hhave fun steering with one hand while you shift 6 speed gear box with other hand and try to keep vehicle on road. Bring the Probe GT back :happy feet: Where did you get from my response that I would consider myself lucky if the Mustang become FWD with 450 HP and 400 lb-ft of torque? All I said was that my 305 HP Edge Sport has no torque steer characteristics that concern me in the least and, in an entirely different statement, that a 460 RWHP Mustang is a handful. I'm sure if my Edge had 460 HP going through the front wheels it would be a bit difficult to handle at WOT also. :poke: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I guess I just don't "get" torque steer then or why people complain about it. I slam the gas in my Edge, it goes straight. Is there something I'm missing here? You are missing something. My Duratec Taurus goes straight also, but the torque steer is there and is noticeable. However, I don't have a lot of trouble with it because it's good in the snow and acceptable in most situations. I knew it buying it. And FWD Edge doesn't bother me too much since that's the way it is in that class of vehicle. However, the Explorer traditionally was RWD with great towing ability, and IMO Ford dented this capability with FWD biased Explorer and Chrysler shows how great an SUV can be with the Jeep GC and Dodge Durnago. They are the two to beat and with assumed decent 8 speed auto will be at the very top of mountain. Also, you can get V8 power in both Chrysler SUV's if you want, and with Explorere you are stuck with less power and torque steer to boot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 You are missing something. My Duratec Taurus goes straight also, but the torque steer is there and is noticeable. Amazing what a decade of engineering advancement will do, huh? Hell, my old 4 cylinder Saturn had more noticable torque steer...and it didn't even have torque. :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Is Torque Steer a new Ford option? We don't seem to have it on Falcon and Territory..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Is Torque Steer a new Ford option? We don't seem to have it on Falcon and Territory..... in Texas its Talk Steer..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Fordbuyer...have you ever really driven a good handling FWD vehicle?....somehow I doubt it.....and careful in the Boxster when lifting off the throttle mid corner..... Hey, I know how well the FWD Focus S handles and performs in Europe and hope Ford brings the Focus ST here to America very soon. I have no problem with FWD in certain types of vehicle like small to mid sized with tamer engines and torque, but with bigger SUVs, trucks in general, and real sporty cars like Corvette, Mustang, and Porsche with prancing horse in middle of logo, NO. When I lay into a powerful sports car, I want the back wheels to fight for traction, not the front wheels. And since I'm thinking about doing some autocross in the Boxster, I guess I will find out about how well a mid engine Boxster handles, won't I? I do know in DE events an unmodded Boxster with street tires will beat everything on track except for 911 GT3's. It will even beat 911 Turbos if straights aren't too long. The Boxster holds Road and Track's all time highest speed through its slalom course for production cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) They are the two to beat and with assumed decent 8 speed auto will be at the very top of mountain. Also, you can get V8 power in both Chrysler SUV's if you want, and with Explorere you are stuck with less power and torque steer to boot. The only thing the GC and Durango will beat the Explorer to is a gas station... I did some looking Google before and here is the only mention of Torque steer on the the new Explorer (obiviously a pre-production model since it was back in november) and it seems to be a non-issue Anyone who goes shopping for a 2011 Explorer in an old one will immediately notice that something is afoot the second that they put their foot on the gas during a test drive. It seems that no effort was made to hide its front-wheel-drive origins, even on 4WD models, which send their power to the nose most of the time a nifty display in the instrument cluster that tracks power distribution bears out this fact. Jab the throttle and the very responsive steering wheel will even twitch with a bit of torque-steer before power is directed aft. Taurus drivers won't even notice it. http://www.foxnews.c...eborn-explorer/ Edited March 28, 2011 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Hey, I know how well the FWD Focus S handles and performs in Europe and hope Ford brings the Focus ST here to America very soon. I have no problem with FWD in certain types of vehicle like small to mid sized with tamer engines and torque, but with bigger SUVs, trucks in general, and real sporty cars like Corvette, Mustang, and Porsche with prancing horse in middle of logo, NO. When I lay into a powerful sports car, I want the back wheels to fight for traction, not the front wheels. And since I'm thinking about doing some autocross in the Boxster, I guess I will find out about how well a mid engine Boxster handles, won't I? I do know in DE events an unmodded Boxster with street tires will beat everything on track except for 911 GT3's. It will even beat 911 Turbos if straights aren't too long. The Boxster holds Road and Track's all time highest speed through its slalom course for production cars. like I said, be careful lifting off mid-corner....mid engined cars can be really tricky....as can FWD and RWD cars....pretty simple really, one just has to adapt to certain handling anomolies...ALL can be fun...but like I said, torque steer on a FWD vehicle is usually only experienced when driving like a moron....seriously, how many on a day to day basis hit WOT mid corner in ANY vehicle????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The only thing the GC and Durango will beat the Explorer to is a gas station... I did some looking Google before and here is the only mention of Torque steer on the the new Explorer (obiviously a pre-production model since it was back in november) and it seems to be a non-issue http://www.foxnews.c...eborn-explorer/ Maybe I'm not noticing it in the Edge at all since I was coming out a FWD Mazda6. :shrug: It wasn't really an issue in that car either though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Hey, I know how well the FWD Focus S handles and performs in Europe and hope Ford brings the Focus ST here to America very soon. I have no problem with FWD in certain types of vehicle like small to mid sized with tamer engines and torque, but with bigger SUVs, trucks in general, and real sporty cars like Corvette, Mustang, and Porsche with prancing horse in middle of logo, NO. When I lay into a powerful sports car, I want the back wheels to fight for traction, not the front wheels. And since I'm thinking about doing some autocross in the Boxster, I guess I will find out about how well a mid engine Boxster handles, won't I? I do know in DE events an unmodded Boxster with street tires will beat everything on track except for 911 GT3's. It will even beat 911 Turbos if straights aren't too long. The Boxster holds Road and Track's all time highest speed through its slalom course for production cars. so all four clawing for grip are relegated as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Maybe I'm not noticing it in the Edge at all since I was coming out a FWD Mazda6. :shrug: It wasn't really an issue in that car either though. I think it all boils down to preconceived notions anyways...I've driven quite a few FWD cars over the years...86 Escort GT, 92 Escort, 89 Taurus, 02 Focus SVT.....and if they had Torque steer it wasn't anything dangerous...if the wheel starts turning, just hold on to it and its not an issue. There is an ever so slight hint of torque steer in my GF 2010 Escape with a V6 and AWD when you get on it..but the wheel isn't cutting counter clockwise sharply either like it did when I used to drop the clutch on my Escort GT and do burnouts with it back in High school either LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Amazing what a decade of engineering advancement will do, huh? Hell, my old 4 cylinder Saturn had more noticable torque steer...and it didn't even have torque. :P I'm sure Ford has improved FWD torque steer a lot over the years. Another reason to be suprised by latest Explorer auto review. And I know others have complained about excessive torque steer in Flex. And I personally have no trouble with 75% of Ford's lineup being FWD. But I do have trouble with making everything FWD as Ford seems to be doing and making the 5.0 practically an orphan engine if you don't include the F-150 and hopefully the Expedition. I really don't think it's written anywhere where we have to go along with every decision Ford makes just because it may be more profitable. In the coming years, we will see how well the Jeep GC and Durgango sells along with 300/Charger and compare it to FWD Explorer and Taurus and MKS sales. When you add in the perception of Ford's superior reliability, we will see if consumer sees difference between longitudinal V6/V8 RWD vehicle and tranverse mounted V6 only FWD vehicle. So far the EB I4 is vaporware, so I won't include that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I think it all boils down to preconceived notions anyways...I've driven quite a few FWD cars over the years...86 Escort GT, 92 Escort, 89 Taurus, 02 Focus SVT.....and if they had Torque steer it wasn't anything dangerous...if the wheel starts turning, just hold on to it and its not an issue That could very well be it also. To me, it's a complete non-issue. The only totally annoying issue I have now with my Edge is the driver's seat back starting to creak on me around turns. Now that is a legitimate gripe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) in Texas its Talk Steer..... boom boom.....:shades: Seriously, are the reviewers seeing true torque steer or is it more like inconsistent traction and road camber? I've got a theory that pulling the wheels like that on a variable road surfaces induces all kinds of road feed back that's not necessarily true torque steer but it could be if the low and mid range torque have been enhanced by more powerful engines and 6-speed autos...surely Ford's testing would have picked it up and eliminated it years ago... Curious on people's thoughts, are reviewers being overly sensitive? Could this develop into a serious image problem for new large FWD Fords? Edited March 28, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I'm sure Ford has improved FWD torque steer a lot over the years. Another reason to be suprised by latest Explorer auto review. And I know others have complained about excessive torque steer in Flex. And I personally have no trouble with 75% of Ford's lineup being FWD. But I do have trouble with making everything FWD as Ford seems to be doing and making the 5.0 practically an orphan engine if you don't include the F-150 and hopefully the Expedition. I really don't think it's written anywhere where we have to go along with every decision Ford makes just because it may be more profitable. In the coming years, we will see how well the Jeep GC and Durgango sells along with 300/Charger and compare it to FWD Explorer and Taurus and MKS sales. When you add in the perception of Ford's superior reliability, we will see if consumer sees difference between longitudinal V6/V8 RWD vehicle and tranverse mounted V6 only FWD vehicle. I agree to a point. But something had to be done. Ford needed to replace the Explorer. Will you disagree? Ford had no suitable RWD platform to move the Explorer to that was ready for production in North America. Will you disagree? Ford's best move was to move it to the D3 architecture until a better alternative comes about. Will you disagree? My long term hope is that Ford will implement a flexible RWD architecture that they can then eventually move the Explorer back onto. The part you keep missing when you go on these rants about Ford's decisions is that none of us are saying they are the absolute best solutions possible. What I would agree with though, however, is that given the current state of Ford's platform development timetable, it was definitely the best solution for now. Just like the entire Lincoln argument -- rebadges were their best available solution while they revamped the Ford lineup. Is it the best solution for the long term? Of course not. But long term solutions sometimes cannot be implemented immediately, as much as you seem to think they should be. So far the EB I4 is vaporware, so I won't include that. :rolleyes: Just because it has been pushed back a few months doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If the program was cancelled (which it most definitely is not) then it would be vaporware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 boom boom.....:shades: Seriously, are the reviewers seeing true torque steer or is it more like inconsistent traction and road camber? I've got a theory that pulling the wheels like that on a variable road surfaces induces all kinds of road feed back that's not necessarily true torque steer but it could be if the low and mid range torque have been enhanced by more powerful engines and 6-speed autos...surely Ford's testing would have picked it up and eliminated it years ago... Curious on people's thoughts, are reviewers being overly sensitive? Could this develop into a serious image problem for new large FWD Fords? meh, one thing about Magazines...their interest , unlike the actual buyers , is MASH THE THROTTLE and knowing how they work, and that they knew the Explorer was indeed FWD based, it was the first thing they did. As for handling, ill leave it at this, a talented driver in a FWD vehicle will run rings around an average driver in ANY setup, Ive driven em all, front rear all and mid engine, they all have different driving characteristics, and they can all be a hoot, but I wont put myself on a pedestal regarding Driving prowess.....99% of the cars today are superior to 99% of the everyday drivers out there....as for Torque steer, point out the person complaining and lets analyse his driving habits... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I agree to a point. But something had to be done. Ford needed to replace the Explorer. Will you disagree? Ford had no suitable RWD platform to move the Explorer to that was ready for production in North America. Will you disagree? Ford's best move was to move it to the D3 architecture until a better alternative comes about. Will you disagree? My long term hope is that Ford will implement a flexible RWD architecture that they can then eventually move the Explorer back onto. The part you keep missing when you go on these rants about Ford's decisions is that none of us are saying they are the absolute best solutions possible. What I would agree with though, however, is that given the current state of Ford's platform development timetable, it was definitely the best solution for now. Just like the entire Lincoln argument -- rebadges were their best available solution while they revamped the Ford lineup. Is it the best solution for the long term? Of course not. But long term solutions sometimes cannot be implemented immediately, as much as you seem to think they should be. :rolleyes: Just because it has been pushed back a few months doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If the program was cancelled (which it most definitely is not) then it would be vaporware. Guess what Nick.....I agree wholeheartedly with you. Kudos to you for saying it so well. The next generation Taurus/Explorer should be on RWD biased platform with V8 option offered and hopefully MKR/Sentinel based off said platform or new Mustang platform. Anything less will be disappointing and frustrating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Guess what Nick.....I agree wholeheartedly with you. Kudos to you for saying it so well. The next generation Taurus/Explorer should be on RWD biased platform with V8 option offered and hopefully MKR/Sentinel based off said platform or new Mustang platform. Anything less will be disappointing and frustrating. I wouldnt be surprized ( gulp ) if a V8 is never again seen in any of Fords lineup sans the Mustang and F-series..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Guess what Nick.....I agree wholeheartedly with you. Kudos to you for saying it so well. The next generation Taurus/Explorer should be on RWD biased platform with V8 option offered and hopefully MKR/Sentinel based off said platform or new Mustang platform. Anything less will be disappointing and frustrating. Well, I think it would be difficult (for the many reasons outlined here in other threads) to have a single catch-all RWD platform that could underpin everything from the Explorer down to the Mustang. It seems ever more likely that the only thing we might see spawned off the next gen Mustang platform would be a small RWD/AWD sedan for Lincoln. That doesn't necessarily mean there won't be another larger RWD platform above that though, which I do believe would be important to Ford's long-term strength in both the Ford-branded SUV/large sedan and, of course, for Lincoln's expansion upmarket. See? We really don't disagree that much. I think I just have more patience to see the long-term plan unfold than you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Question for Nick and FordBuyer: How would a move to RWD benefit the Explorer considering its current position in the marketplace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 meh, one thing about Magazines...their interest , unlike the actual buyers , is MASH THE THROTTLE and knowing how they work, and that they knew the Explorer was indeed FWD based, it was the first thing they did. As for handling, ill leave it at this, a talented driver in a FWD vehicle will run rings around an average driver in ANY setup, Ive driven em all, front rear all and mid engine, they all have different driving characteristics, and they can all be a hoot, but I wont put myself on a pedestal regarding Driving prowess.....99% of the cars today are superior to 99% of the everyday drivers out there....as for Torque steer, point out the person complaining and lets analyse his driving habits... Obviously, the driver is arguably the greatest factor in how fast a race car is, as the best know how to explore the limits of its performance envelope, but some vehicles have a far greater performance envelope than others based upon many variables. I guess that's why they have individual race classes at racing venues like LeMans Series. You are just trying to win your class, not the race unless you are in most powerful class. And of course keep from destroying your car or grenading your engine/gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Question for Nick and FordBuyer: How would a move to RWD benefit the Explorer considering its current position in the marketplace? answer...not much...but I will wait to see its sales numbers year end to compare with its immediate competition...right now our order banks are FULL, stock totals 2 units and people are flocking in to look at the vehicle. I have said this before. I have NOT seen this type of buzz on a vehicle since the Expedition was first released. And the Edge is selling like hot cakes as well, but inventories are a LOT better on that vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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