Detroit News Article

[theunionisforever]

To me this sounds like a warning shot from King to not expect to get anything back that we lost. If all we are going to be offered is a new profit share scam that can be manipulated at will by the company, then he can count on a big fat NO vote from me. I don't think contract talks should even begin until our grievance is settled and we get back what we lost (at least to the point of parity with what salary got back)

 

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110718/AUTO01/107180342/UAW-chief-endorses-profit-sharing

 

MAJOR PROVISIONS THAT SHOULD TRIGGER AN AUTOMATIC NO VOTE:

 

1. ANY LANGUAGE THAT SO MUCH AS SUGGESTS AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES ALLOWED IN THE SYSTEM!

The writing is on the wall for this one. We have stood back and allowed ourselves to be divided and conquered. First Visteon, then ACH, orange employees, light blue employees, etc..

The only strength a Union has is in solidarity by numbers. When they successfully outnumber the 1st tier with the 2nd tier then they will take away anything we have left. All they have to

do is offer the 2nd tier people a raise to equalize our pay and benefits with theirs and they will jump all over it. Why wouldn't they??

 

2. BUY DOWN OFFER:

Any offer to give us money to lower ourselves to 2nd tier wages and benefits is a slap in the face. Just like the buy out offers, any time the company is willing to cough up a big check to

get rid of you or to get something from you, it is going to be in their favor. A lot of people jumped on the buy out offers and are now jobless and living in poverty. Think long term and realize

that you will make more on higher wages and benefits in the long run.

 

These are not the only concerns but these are my top two to watch out for. Feel free to add to the list..

[trailfndr]

To me this sounds like a warning shot from King to not expect to get anything back that we lost. If all we are going to be offered is a new profit share scam that can be manipulated at will by the company, then he can count on a big fat NO vote from me. I don't think contract talks should even begin until our grievance is settled and we get back what we lost (at least to the point of parity with what salary got back)

 

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110718/AUTO01/107180342/UAW-chief-endorses-profit-sharing

 

MAJOR PROVISIONS THAT SHOULD TRIGGER AN AUTOMATIC NO VOTE:

 

1. ANY LANGUAGE THAT SO MUCH AS SUGGESTS AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES ALLOWED IN THE SYSTEM!

The writing is on the wall for this one. We have stood back and allowed ourselves to be divided and conquered. First Visteon, then ACH, orange employees, light blue employees, etc..

The only strength a Union has is in solidarity by numbers. When they successfully outnumber the 1st tier with the 2nd tier then they will take away anything we have left. All they have to

do is offer the 2nd tier people a raise to equalize our pay and benefits with theirs and they will jump all over it. Why wouldn't they??

 

2. BUY DOWN OFFER:

Any offer to give us money to lower ourselves to 2nd tier wages and benefits is a slap in the face. Just like the buy out offers, any time the company is willing to cough up a big check to

get rid of you or to get something from you, it is going to be in their favor. A lot of people jumped on the buy out offers and are now jobless and living in poverty. Think long term and realize

that you will make more on higher wages and benefits in the long run.

 

These are not the only concerns but these are my top two to watch out for. Feel free to add to the list..

 

 

I will add to it...ANYTHING Negotiated by Bob King is a definate NO in my book. he is, and always has been too close to the company in his dealings. He has repeatedly come to us with Consessions, and he has often said in the media, that we need more two teir, anmd no raise, just some profit sharing scam.

 

Remeber the last offer he brought us? With Gettlefingers help, he ILLEGALLY negotiated the deal, and then after the fact, asked the E-Boards permission to enter negotiations withj the company. Our Bylaws and constitution are clear...NO negotiations will take place untill approved by the board. If he cares so little about the rules we have in place, He is in no way a president that I will ever have faith in.

 

The above article says it all, its a "complicated" formula that takes into account not onlyu profits, but matrixis such as quality.

 

WHEN do we get to control guality, or design? If we can't then the comp0any can at anytime, build vehicles no one wants to buy, and design them in such a way that real quality is near impossible. We have no control over our own destiny if this happens. N O THANK YOU! Bob King is a SNAKE, and the sooner all of us realize that, the better we will all be.

[Spring]

I will add to it...ANYTHING Negotiated by Bob King is a definate NO in my book. he is, and always has been too close to the company in his dealings. He has repeatedly come to us with Consessions, and he has often said in the media, that we need more two teir, anmd no raise, just some profit sharing scam.

 

Remeber the last offer he brought us? With Gettlefingers help, he ILLEGALLY negotiated the deal, and then after the fact, asked the E-Boards permission to enter negotiations withj the company. Our Bylaws and constitution are clear...NO negotiations will take place untill approved by the board. If he cares so little about the rules we have in place, He is in no way a president that I will ever have faith in.

 

The above article says it all, its a "complicated" formula that takes into account not onlyu profits, but matrixis such as quality.

 

WHEN do we get to control guality, or design? If we can't then the comp0any can at anytime, build vehicles no one wants to buy, and design them in such a way that real quality is near impossible. We have no control over our own destiny if this happens. N O THANK YOU! Bob King is a SNAKE, and the sooner all of us realize that, the better we will all be.

 

 

And please remember that it was he who approached the company with the second set of concessions to even the playing field in an effort to protect the Administrative Caucuses "Pattern Bargaining"! NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! Their desperate and thankfully futile attempts to preserve pattern bargaining tell me one of two things: 1) They're lazy and don't want to put any effort into doing their jobs so just negotiate one contract for all 3 or 2) they really don't know what the hell they're doing and can't think outside the box and MUST do it like it's always been done!

 

Newsflash! The playing field is NOT level nor should it be! Ford did not receive bridge loans and therefore should not be subject to the same restrictions as GM or Chrysler. Just because he's weak and bows to pressure from the other two makes it all the more apparent that we need to stand strong on this!

 

Just like the Special Bargaining Convention which was a drastically watered down catch all for all UAW people and nothing to do with the automotive industry was even remotely touched "We'll let the Ford national negotiators handle that". What was the point of even putting in resolutions for National negotiations if we weren't going over them? Why waste the money on a convention/dog and pony show. I'm starting to think, after all the attention that was focused on the public sector workers (whereby the auto workers are ignored and essentially treated as "the dirty little secret" in the family) that King is embarrassed and ashamed that he's an auto worker! It looks like he'd like to focus on anyone other than us! Well, President King, too bad so sad! You're one of us SO START ACTING LIKE IT!

[uawfactoryrat]

To me this sounds like a warning shot from King to not expect to get anything back that we lost. If all we are going to be offered is a new profit share scam that can be manipulated at will by the company, then he can count on a big fat NO vote from me. I don't think contract talks should even begin until our grievance is settled and we get back what we lost (at least to the point of parity with what salary got back)

 

http://www.detnews.c...-profit-sharing

 

MAJOR PROVISIONS THAT SHOULD TRIGGER AN AUTOMATIC NO VOTE:

 

1. ANY LANGUAGE THAT SO MUCH AS SUGGESTS AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES ALLOWED IN THE SYSTEM!

The writing is on the wall for this one. We have stood back and allowed ourselves to be divided and conquered. First Visteon, then ACH, orange employees, light blue employees, etc..

The only strength a Union has is in solidarity by numbers. When they successfully outnumber the 1st tier with the 2nd tier then they will take away anything we have left. All they have to

do is offer the 2nd tier people a raise to equalize our pay and benefits with theirs and they will jump all over it. Why wouldn't they??

 

2. BUY DOWN OFFER:

Any offer to give us money to lower ourselves to 2nd tier wages and benefits is a slap in the face. Just like the buy out offers, any time the company is willing to cough up a big check to

get rid of you or to get something from you, it is going to be in their favor. A lot of people jumped on the buy out offers and are now jobless and living in poverty. Think long term and realize

that you will make more on higher wages and benefits in the long run.

 

These are not the only concerns but these are my top two to watch out for. Feel free to add to the list..

 

This is absolutely crazy!!!!!

 

They are saying they want more money for lite blue, but they don't want to ask for a raise for us? We cant have one so the company can stay competitive?

 

There is no f-ing way Im going to vote yes unless...

 

I get my cola back,

 

awols fall off after a year, or they let me use my vacation time up to a year and a half .

 

I get back my break time minutes lost

 

there is a zone bump, there is no reason that with no gen bank they cannot do this.

 

 

I am not going to tie my wages to company performance when they will exclude all revenue made on vehicles produced outside of the untied states!!!

 

Tied to productivity... that me they will really crack the whip and overload then.

 

We have no power on the floor, all our bargaining chips are gone.

 

If they would only lighten up on the jobs they would get better quality, and less injuries, downtime, awols.

 

 

I am so sick of the give-aways. Come back and work on the line for a month and tell me I am wrong!!!

 

 

I want to see a town hall meeting when they try to spoon this stuff out.

 

Who in the hell votes for a contract with vague highlights, and language that says to be discussed later??????

 

PLEASE, SOMEONE TELL ME I AM NOT ASKING FOR TOO MUCH.

[1993Stang]

Dear Bob,

 

The race to the bottom has already started here even if you are trying to unionize foreign entities or not. The race to the bottom began when you accepted two tier wages and bought out full time wage earners while claiming that the Big Three were spiraling down. Yes, maybe they were losing money big time, I agree with that, but now to be on a hiring frenzy to replace new blue blood with wages at 1/2 the cost and benefits, is troubling. While you will be a hero to those 2 tiered wage earners by promising them a wage increase, the full time wage earners will continue to have stagnant wages and continue to distrust your leadership. Other foreign entities will get wind of this and want to remain free of the union umbrella. Honestly, all they would have to do is ask a full time wage earner when the last time they saw a wage increase was.

 

Second, tying an increase only to the profit of a company cannot be good. If interest rates increase, job market does not recover, automobile keep getting more expensive, wages remain stagnant or as we see in 2 tier (less pay) wage earners, who will buy a car? Just because you want a new car doesn't mean you're going to get one. Credit is also harder to obtain now. The mere fact that high raking management still have parachutes in place if the company does not make a profit should draw great pause. What kind of parachute would an hourly worker have if no profit was made? Zero "sorry the company didn't make a profit this year, but to be nice here's your fifty bucks."

 

Third, would an hourly want back COLA, OT after 8 hours, minutes back on breaks, slower line speeds over profit? The first is constant, the second choice is not. An absolute promise of a % of a performance bonus returned would be a great start but not if it only involved profit. Ask any production worker if they worked any less during a non profit year than a profit year, the answer is the same. How terrible it must feel to dangle a company profit as if a worker might work that much harder to achieve it only to be told it wasn't going to happen.

Last, new standards on vehicles will eat into profits. I love efficiency and the environment but new standards must cost money??

[Empire]

With so many of the posters voting "no" on something that has not been negotiated tells me we will be striking. I have saved my profit sharing as well as some other savings to get us through a 3 month strike. As far as I know we only get $200 a week and have to be at the gates for 8 hours a day or we dont get our $200. The UAW stuck GM and Chrysler last year and striking Ford may be the only way to help GM and Chrysler to get some concessions back. Could be a long strike. I'm ready for 3 months. The contract expires in less that 2 months. I have my monthly bills paid down and paid off the last year of my car loan. I think Ford will be the target and we could be out for a while. Be ready

[RockofCashel]

You people are retarded.

[DTP Nick]

Dear Bob,

 

The race to the bottom has already started here even if you are trying to unionize foreign entities or not. The race to the bottom began when you accepted two tier wages and bought out full time wage earners while claiming that the Big Three were spiraling down. Yes, maybe they were losing money big time, I agree with that, but now to be on a hiring frenzy to replace new blue blood with wages at 1/2 the cost and benefits, is troubling. While you will be a hero to those 2 tiered wage earners by promising them a wage increase, the full time wage earners will continue to have stagnant wages and continue to distrust your leadership. Other foreign entities will get wind of this and want to remain free of the union umbrella. Honestly, all they would have to do is ask a full time wage earner when the last time they saw a wage increase was.

 

Second, tying an increase only to the profit of a company cannot be good. If interest rates increase, job market does not recover, automobile keep getting more expensive, wages remain stagnant or as we see in 2 tier (less pay) wage earners, who will buy a car? Just because you want a new car doesn't mean you're going to get one. Credit is also harder to obtain now. The mere fact that high raking management still have parachutes in place if the company does not make a profit should draw great pause. What kind of parachute would an hourly worker have if no profit was made? Zero "sorry the company didn't make a profit this year, but to be nice here's your fifty bucks."

 

Third, would an hourly want back COLA, OT after 8 hours, minutes back on breaks, slower line speeds over profit? The first is constant, the second choice is not. An absolute promise of a % of a performance bonus returned would be a great start but not if it only involved profit. Ask any production worker if they worked any less during a non profit year than a profit year, the answer is the same. How terrible it must feel to dangle a company profit as if a worker might work that much harder to achieve it only to be told it wasn't going to happen.

Last, new standards on vehicles will eat into profits. I love efficiency and the environment but new standards must cost money??

This along with all of the posts I just read shows the "Head buried in the sand" or "Tunnel vision" that years of UAW coddling have done to UAW members. Would you rather make 30 bucks and hour...get no raise during what I believe will be a two or three year contract yet gain job security through the fact that Ford has to be able to compete globally with ALL automakers foreign and domestic? Cmon folks its a global economy now and like it or not this union has to evolve along with the changing world or it WILL DIE...This country is still in a recesssion no matter what anyone says...The economy only grew 1.8percent in the first half of the year and is only expected to be growing at between 2 to 3% by 2015(Normal growth that grows along with population growth is 5%) according to yesterdays USA today....This economy is soooo fragile and Ford could slip back into the abyss very easily. I understand all the talk of executive bonuses etc and agree they need to be checked but you people are as high as those Chrysler workers if you think you have even a slight chance of getting a raise...I think a profit sharing plan that includes Fords WORLDWIDE GLOBAL OPERATIONs profits is in order along with a clear mechanism that is easy to figure out what we are at bonus wise is in order....Bonuses are the wave of the future whether we like it or not

[DTP Nick]

Dear Bob,

 

The race to the bottom has already started here even if you are trying to unionize foreign entities or not. The race to the bottom began when you accepted two tier wages and bought out full time wage earners while claiming that the Big Three were spiraling down. Yes, maybe they were losing money big time, I agree with that, but now to be on a hiring frenzy to replace new blue blood with wages at 1/2 the cost and benefits, is troubling. While you will be a hero to those 2 tiered wage earners by promising them a wage increase, the full time wage earners will continue to have stagnant wages and continue to distrust your leadership. Other foreign entities will get wind of this and want to remain free of the union umbrella. Honestly, all they would have to do is ask a full time wage earner when the last time they saw a wage increase was.

 

Second, tying an increase only to the profit of a company cannot be good. If interest rates increase, job market does not recover, automobile keep getting more expensive, wages remain stagnant or as we see in 2 tier (less pay) wage earners, who will buy a car? Just because you want a new car doesn't mean you're going to get one. Credit is also harder to obtain now. The mere fact that high raking management still have parachutes in place if the company does not make a profit should draw great pause. What kind of parachute would an hourly worker have if no profit was made? Zero "sorry the company didn't make a profit this year, but to be nice here's your fifty bucks."

 

Third, would an hourly want back COLA, OT after 8 hours, minutes back on breaks, slower line speeds over profit? The first is constant, the second choice is not. An absolute promise of a % of a performance bonus returned would be a great start but not if it only involved profit. Ask any production worker if they worked any less during a non profit year than a profit year, the answer is the same. How terrible it must feel to dangle a company profit as if a worker might work that much harder to achieve it only to be told it wasn't going to happen.

Last, new standards on vehicles will eat into profits. I love efficiency and the environment but new standards must cost money??

You also state that"new fuel standards etc will eat into profits etc........Maybe you should stop being a mindless robot and voting a straight Democratic ticket because they are the "greens" that want all of these crazy expensive fuel standards in place within ten years(Thank Obama too as he is a big proponent of this which hurts automakers and in effect UAW members) Its funny how people will all of the sudden care about the companies costs when their compensation is tied to its performance...Think people...be objective....Like Bob king is preaching this is the new UAW not your father or grandfathers union that held the company hostage for decades

[fordd]

Yea great idea everyone. Lets settle for nothing less than all of our benefits back!! Lets show Ford and the UAW that we mean business!!

 

Then guess what Ford will show us. Less investment in US plants. Sure there will always be some plants in the US, but lets face it, Ford is not going to build as many engines, transmissions, axles, or stampings paying significantly more than the competition. Until the UAW can organize some transplants we will not see wage increases. Less than 50% of vehicles built in the US are now UAW. It is not just about us, but the whole industry.

 

There was a reason why Toyota paid there workers equal to more than what we make. They did not want the union. Now why do you think there were talks a little while ago Toyota cutting wages? Probably because they do not fear the UAW anymore.

 

Is solidarity about getting all that you can from the company for a smaller group or is solidarity about sticking together to grow the union to ultimately benefit a larger group of people?

 

I feel it is the second one.

 

Feel free to tear apart this post. I really do not give a shit.

[DTP Nick]

Yea great idea everyone. Lets settle for nothing less than all of our benefits back!! Lets show Ford and the UAW that we mean business!!

 

Then guess what Ford will show us. Less investment in US plants. Sure there will always be some plants in the US, but lets face it, Ford is not going to build as many engines, transmissions, axles, or stampings paying significantly more than the competition. Until the UAW can organize some transplants we will not see wage increases. Less than 50% of vehicles built in the US are now UAW. It is not just about us, but the whole industry.

 

There was a reason why Toyota paid there workers equal to more than what we make. They did not want the union. Now why do you think there were talks a little while ago Toyota cutting wages? Probably because they do not fear the UAW anymore.

 

Is solidarity about getting all that you can from the company for a smaller group or is solidarity about sticking together to grow the union to ultimately benefit a larger group of people?

 

I feel it is the second one.

 

Feel free to tear apart this post. I really do not give a shit.

Good post...

[jjt4433]

Good post...

 

Some people may like going backwards in pay and benefits, but I am not one of them. Ford is making a lot of money lately and can afford to give blue collar a raise. That's fine if you want to vote yes on some bs contract, but if I don't like it which is the way it is sounding as of right now(I will have to see an official finished negotiated contract first) I will be voting NO .

[louie]

Yea great idea everyone. Lets settle for nothing less than all of our benefits back!! Lets show Ford and the UAW that we mean business!!

 

Then guess what Ford will show us. Less investment in US plants. Sure there will always be some plants in the US, but lets face it, Ford is not going to build as many engines, transmissions, axles, or stampings paying significantly more than the competition. Until the UAW can organize some transplants we will not see wage increases. Less than 50% of vehicles built in the US are now UAW. It is not just about us, but the whole industry.

 

There was a reason why Toyota paid there workers equal to more than what we make. They did not want the union. Now why do you think there were talks a little while ago Toyota cutting wages? Probably because they do not fear the UAW anymore.

 

Is solidarity about getting all that you can from the company for a smaller group or is solidarity about sticking together to grow the union to ultimately benefit a larger group of people?

 

I feel it is the second one.

 

Feel free to tear apart this post. I really do not give a shit.

 

 

Great post.....

 

Our labor rates is why we got all of the investment in 2007.

 

Raise our labor rates and you are correct......... Mexico is only a border away!!!!!

 

I'm confident the UAW will negotiate the most they can and still get those product commitments.

 

Products are cyclical and will come to an end sooner or later it is important to keep investment for our coveted job security

 

I agree with your post 1000%

[theunionisforever]

I'll say it again...even if we get everything back that we lost, raises, some great sounding profit sharing scheme and a fat signing bonus, any mention of LIFTING THE NUMBER OF THE 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES THE COMPANY CAN HIRE WILL EQUAL DISASTER FOR 1ST TIER EMPLOYEES. If we don't stand firm and fight against a flood of 2nd tier employees in the system then we are doomed to lose everything we have. All the company and Bob King will have to do is open the flood gates of hiring, out number us and then either reopen the contract or just wait out this one and then EQUALIZE our pay and benefits. If you look at the big picture of what's going on you will see what their master plan has been all along. BRING US ALL DOWN TO THIRD WORLD POVERTY WAGES AND BENEFITS!

 

1. Divide our ranks by splitting the parts plants from Ford and calling it Visteon. (This was sold by the UAW as a great idea)

Visteon has since shifted nearly all of it's production to China.

 

2. Divided our ranks further by selling everyone on 2nd Tier (again sold as the only alternative by the UAW)

The BIG selling point here was that 2nd Tier would be limited to only 20% and that they would have a chance to move up

to 2nd tier as people retired.

 

3. Progressively weaker buy out packages that reduced the number of 1st tier employees on pay roll.

 

3. Massive concession to bring the 1st tier workers closer to entry level employees wages and benefits package.

 

4. VEBA that unloaded retiree medical benefits.

 

5. THE FINAL PIECE OF THE PUZZLE.. LIFT THE NUMBER OF 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES THAT CAN BE HIRED, OVERWHELM THE RANKS WITH 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES AND THEN EQUALIZE PAY AND BENEFITS FOR THOSE THAT REMAIN.

DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN! VOTE NO ON ANY LANGUAGE THAT LIFTS THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE NUMBER OF 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES FORD CAN HIRE.

[skeptic]

Some people may like going backwards in pay and benefits, but I am not one of them. Ford is making a lot of money lately and can afford to give blue collar a raise. That's fine if you want to vote yes on some bs contract, but if I don't like it which is the way it is sounding as of right now(I will have to see an official finished negotiated contract first) I will be voting NO .

I will not be willing to vote on any contract that does not restore some of our concessions.We the hourly sacrificed while our corporate leaders not only did not sacrifice but profited.Why am I even concerned about the contract since our contracts are nothing but lies.A UAW contract like the last two will not go the term without demanding concessions.

Edited July 19, 2011 by skeptic

[fordd]

2. Divided our ranks further by selling everyone on 2nd Tier (again sold as the only alternative by the UAW)

The BIG selling point here was that 2nd Tier would be limited to only 20% and that they would have a chance to move up

to 2nd tier as people retired.

 

 

 

You do realize that even if the cap on entry level employees was raised Ford would literally have to double the amount of employees to outnumber us right??

[Dfisher]

I'll say it again...even if we get everything back that we lost, raises, some great sounding profit sharing scheme and a fat signing bonus, any mention of LIFTING THE NUMBER OF THE 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES THE COMPANY CAN HIRE WILL EQUAL DISASTER FOR 1ST TIER EMPLOYEES. If we don't stand firm and fight against a flood of 2nd tier employees in the system then we are doomed to lose everything we have. All the company and Bob King will have to do is open the flood gates of hiring, out number us and then either reopen the contract or just wait out this one and then EQUALIZE our pay and benefits. If you look at the big picture of what's going on you will see what their master plan has been all along. BRING US ALL DOWN TO THIRD WORLD POVERTY WAGES AND BENEFITS!

 

1. Divide our ranks by splitting the parts plants from Ford and calling it Visteon. (This was sold by the UAW as a great idea)

Visteon has since shifted nearly all of it's production to China.

 

2. Divided our ranks further by selling everyone on 2nd Tier (again sold as the only alternative by the UAW)

The BIG selling point here was that 2nd Tier would be limited to only 20% and that they would have a chance to move up

to 2nd tier as people retired.

 

3. Progressively weaker buy out packages that reduced the number of 1st tier employees on pay roll.

 

3. Massive concession to bring the 1st tier workers closer to entry level employees wages and benefits package.

 

4. VEBA that unloaded retiree medical benefits.

 

5. THE FINAL PIECE OF THE PUZZLE.. LIFT THE NUMBER OF 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES THAT CAN BE HIRED, OVERWHELM THE RANKS WITH 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES AND THEN EQUALIZE PAY AND BENEFITS FOR THOSE THAT REMAIN.

DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN! VOTE NO ON ANY LANGUAGE THAT LIFTS THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE NUMBER OF 2ND TIER EMPLOYEES FORD CAN HIRE.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, this post hit the nail on the head, and that's the road we're on.

[DTP Nick]

Great post.....

 

Our labor rates is why we got all of the investment in 2007.

 

Raise our labor rates and you are correct......... Mexico is only a border away!!!!!

 

I'm confident the UAW will negotiate the most they can and still get those product commitments.

 

Products are cyclical and will come to an end sooner or later it is important to keep investment for our coveted job security

 

I agree with your post 1000%

Has hell frozen over??? I agree with Louis!!! LOL

[DTP Nick]

Some people may like going backwards in pay and benefits, but I am not one of them. Ford is making a lot of money lately and can afford to give blue collar a raise. That's fine if you want to vote yes on some bs contract, but if I don't like it which is the way it is sounding as of right now(I will have to see an official finished negotiated contract first) I will be voting NO .

I just want to know what planet do people who think like this live on??? Why dont you stop thinking short term about what you can get NOW in the next 3 years and be a forward thinker and worry about 25 years from now when you will depend on a HEALTHY PROFITABLE Ford motor for your pension? ...You have just seen and are seeing what happens to retirees pensions/health care when times are bad and companies are uncompetitive or have massive legacy costs....Stop living in the here and now and be a forward thinker folks....If you are capable

[1993Stang]

This along with all of the posts I just read shows the "Head buried in the sand" or "Tunnel vision" that years of UAW coddling have done to UAW members. Would you rather make 30 bucks and hour...get no raise during what I believe will be a two or three year contract yet gain job security through the fact that Ford has to be able to compete globally with ALL automakers foreign and domestic? Cmon folks its a global economy now and like it or not this union has to evolve along with the changing world or it WILL DIE...This country is still in a recesssion no matter what anyone says...The economy only grew 1.8percent in the first half of the year and is only expected to be growing at between 2 to 3% by 2015(Normal growth that grows along with population growth is 5%) according to yesterdays USA today....This economy is soooo fragile and Ford could slip back into the abyss very easily. I understand all the talk of executive bonuses etc and agree they need to be checked but you people are as high as those Chrysler workers if you think you have even a slight chance of getting a raise...I think a profit sharing plan that includes Fords WORLDWIDE GLOBAL OPERATIONs profits is in order along with a clear mechanism that is easy to figure out what we are at bonus wise is in order....Bonuses are the wave of the future whether we like it or not

 

Exactly my point Nick, if the country is still in a recession how long will the company show a profit. Why would workers not want their concessions back and then have only a hope of the company maybe making a profit. Yeah, yeah Nick its a global economy, we get it, heard it before, stop repeating it!

[DTP Nick]

Exactly my point Nick, if the country is still in a recession how long will the company show a profit. Why would workers not want their concessions back and then have only a hope of the company maybe making a profit. Yeah, yeah Nick its a global economy, we get it, heard it before, stop repeating it!

But it just shows how outdated and myopic your viewpoints are,,,i agree we should(and will) get all the little BS concessions back like breaktime etc but how can you justify saying the company should give us any type of raise under these economic conditions?? I think, like our union leadership does, that if the companies are profitable we willk get profit sharing....If they are not then we will get 30bucks and hour and great benefits. The days of giving us raises just to appease whiney union members like you are over....obsolete way of thinking

[DTP Nick]

Exactly my point Nick, if the country is still in a recession how long will the company show a profit. Why would workers not want their concessions back and then have only a hope of the company maybe making a profit. Yeah, yeah Nick its a global economy, we get it, heard it before, stop repeating it!

ps in case you never read a business section or just basically dont know shit about wall street or profit projections Ford is supposed to make MORE this year than last when you got 5k....What id say you got 7k with an improved profit sharing plan along with 3k for a signing bonus in sept?....That is great for us as union members and great for the company in that they dont add FIXED costs to their labor pool...If the econmy goes down the toilet and the company isnt making money then you get your 30 bucks an hour and benefits...other jobs and indistries would KILL for that. But not the UAW spoiled babies

[1993Stang]

You also state that"new fuel standards etc will eat into profits etc........Maybe you should stop being a mindless robot and voting a straight Democratic ticket because they are the "greens" that want all of these crazy expensive fuel standards in place within ten years(Thank Obama too as he is a big proponent of this which hurts automakers and in effect UAW members) Its funny how people will all of the sudden care about the companies costs when their compensation is tied to its performance...Think people...be objective....Like Bob king is preaching this is the new UAW not your father or grandfathers union that held the company hostage for decades

[/quo

 

Really, my father, held the company hostage. My father literally worked with King. The union was strong, nobody held a gun to the companies head to pass contracts, I can assure you. Do you think Allen Mulally holds a gun to Jr.'s head when he wants a raise? Do you feel the executives that get paid big bucks are holding the company hostage? Why is it that you post allude to the "their not worth paying the hourly worker anymore" mentality. Here we go again its all Obama's fault as one by one almost each and every REPUBLICAN said no the automotive industry!! How soon you forget. DTP Nick, use the education funds that Ford so graciously gives you and take some classes. Remember that the hard workers at Ford said "No" to concessions and life at Ford continued afterwards, in fact it made a profit after the hourly said "No" and just weeks later the salaried folks received some concessions back. There will always be a story on how the "sky" is falling at the Big Three in order to get more concessions, keep wages low, get people off the rolls, continue to make people feel that they can lose their job at any moment....it's business. Right around contract time, Ford will announce it is slipping again.

[el norte]

ps in case you never read a business section or just basically dont know shit about wall street or profit projections Ford is supposed to make MORE this year than last when you got 5k....What id say you got 7k with an improved profit sharing plan along with 3k for a signing bonus in sept?....That is great for us as union members and great for the company in that they dont add FIXED costs to their labor pool...If the econmy goes down the toilet and the company isnt making money then you get your 30 bucks an hour and benefits...other jobs and indistries would KILL for that. But not the UAW spoiled babies

You are a condescending IDIOT!

Edited July 19, 2011 by el norte

[DTP Nick]

I dont need classes stang as I already hold a degree...and I am a third generation Local 600 autoworker whose Uncles and father know Bob King...I get the whole history of the Union movement etc....But if you look back you will see that the Union hurt the companies in a lot of ways as much as they helped them in the old days

Edited July 20, 2011 by DTP Nick