jpd80 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) If the SUV market doesnt care about off road capability just cancel the Explorer, Ford already has the Flex. No, you failed to grasp the meaning of what I said, that the bulk of the SUV market doesn't care about off road capability and as you know, Flex and Explorer are pitched to different demographics but share a common platform. Something else you fail to grasp is that Ford made a conscious decision to move from BOF RWD/AWD to a Unitary FWD/AWD because the market research showed that by switching platforms Ford could better deliver the features and fuel economy that buyers were seeking. The scales of economy come from the elimination of the old BOF Explorer, Sport Trac and their production lines. Ford are crying all the way to the bank while Chrysler struggles to make a buck. See, it all about what the bulk of the market wants and whether providing a niche product is worth the effort, in the case of Mustang, there is still sufficient buyer interest in paying good dollars for a performance RWD but the same cannot be said of the SUV market where more people are interested in space, fuel efficiency, on road performance and occasional towing duties... Edited September 1, 2011 by jpd80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Hell, even an Escape can tow a little 3,500 lb boat. Again, The Flex can do everything he needs with even more interior room and the same MPG. Everyone says Ford isn't out of the woods yet and they cant waste money so there is no business case to keep building both of these big fat CUVs. It cuts into that all-important profit. Lets be honest, the Escape is dangerous towing 3,500 pounds and having 5 people packed in it. At least that was what owners reported when I did my research. The Flex? No thank you, it reminds me of those boxy Honda Elements and Ford now needs to pull the plug on it. The new Explorer is a hit because people buying new vehicles today buy smart as they've proved it by making it through this recession and still have money and credit. Ford did the same thing and is building smarter today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 False. Todays Wrangler Rubicon especially with the new Pentastar V6 is the equal or superior to previous Jeeps off road capability. The Wrangler is the lone exception, and even the Rubicon needs some modifications to be seriously competitive off-road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 If you actually want to go offloading in any serious way, you need an ATV. Try going through anything around here with even a Rubicon...you'd just end up with the thing sunk half out of sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Lets be honest, the Escape is dangerous towing 3,500 pounds and having 5 people packed in it. Of course it was. It was probably carrying c. 1,000lbs more than it was supposed to. Ford's tow ratings are based on something like a 200lb driver, no passengers and no payload. You add 4 more people (c. 700lbs), and 5 people's luggage (c. 300lbs @ 2-3 bags apiece), and well, there you are. And even following mfr. recommendations you will not be able to accelerate as though unladen. This means you'll be sorely taxed on any incline, and you won't be passing many cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Yeah the Wrangler can tow up to 3500 lbs last I checked. Also I'm not implying that the Explorer should be as off road capable as the Wrangler. What I was pointing out was that meyeste seems to think the Explorer should have far more off ability than it does and I was just pointing out that it has never been a hardcore off road vehicle. The Explorers off road ability is for light off road duty. Trailing at best. And that's fine because that is more than most drivers will ever need. The Explorer was never supposed to be a Wrangler competitor which is apparently what he's looking for. interestingly enough Land Rover is bringing back the Defender....will be intereting to gauge its success... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 interestingly enough Land Rover is bringing back the Defender....will be intereting to gauge its success... Good move. Why? The Defender has a world-wide reputation, and can probably do the Rubicon with no mods, if any 4x4 can. It will sell its share, if they get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Good move. Why? The Defender has a world-wide reputation, and can probably do the Rubicon with no mods, if any 4x4 can. It will sell its share, if they get it right. I used to have an older Defender as a demo...it was a riot, but definitely a "toy", as a day to day "liveable" vehicle it SUCKED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I used to have an older Defender as a demo...it was a riot, but definitely a "toy", as a day to day "liveable" vehicle it SUCKED Big 10-4 to that. Even more so than the Jeep, the inside of a Defender was basically the same as its outside--if it differed in any way, it was less accommodating. I'd rather be strapped to the fender of one of those things than to be subjected to the torture of riding in it. Although the closet thrill of pretending that you're Marlon Perkins must be worth something, as I can't think of any other reason why you'd buy a white one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) Big 10-4 to that. Even more so than the Jeep, the inside of a Defender was basically the same as its outside--if it differed in any way, it was less accommodating. I'd rather be strapped to the fender of one of those things than to be subjected to the torture of riding in it. Although the closet thrill of pretending that you're Marlon Perkins must be worth something, as I can't think of any other reason why you'd buy a white one. I did appreciate the simplicity and "honesty" of the vehicle though, ZERO refinement and that 5 speed manual with the "Buick" V8 was without a doubt one of the GROUCHIEST drivetrains Ive ever experienced...one benefit though was.....( refer to a certain SPEEDBUMPS avatar )...oh, and Rich...it was DACTARI....bwahahaha Edited September 1, 2011 by Deanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I did appreciate the simplicity and "honesty" of the vehicle though, ZERO refinement and that 5 speed manual with the "Buick" V8 was without a doubt one of the GROUCHIEST drivetrains Ive ever experienced...one benefit though was.....( refer to a certain SPEEDBUMPS avatar )...oh, and Rich...it was DACTARI....bwahahaha If you want simplicity and honesty, get the original Jeep: A Model T Oh and Dean, it was Daktari.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 If you want simplicity and honesty, get the original Jeep: A Model T Oh and Dean, it was Daktari.... funny, i had the letter "K" in there and it just looked wrong....man FLASHBACKS!...the Defender i had was British racing green and was the Defender 90 ( soft top...was pretty cool, but just an absolute BEAST..and unrefined as hell....refreshing really.....but loosened some fillings...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Of course it was. It was probably carrying c. 1,000lbs more than it was supposed to. Ford's tow ratings are based on something like a 200lb driver, no passengers and no payload. You add 4 more people (c. 700lbs), and 5 people's luggage (c. 300lbs @ 2-3 bags apiece), and well, there you are. And even following mfr. recommendations you will not be able to accelerate as though unladen. This means you'll be sorely taxed on any incline, and you won't be passing many cars. I'm well aware of the tow rating and how it's calculated, that's why I bought the 5,000 lb rating of the '11 V6 Explorer. A V6 Escape should not have been used as an Example as a vehicle I could have got instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 A V6 Escape should not have been used as an Example as a vehicle I could have got instead. Did somebody say that? I must've missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Did somebody say that? I must've missed that. Yes, post #127 by F250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) Did somebody say that? I must've missed that. Tongue-in-cheek remark that the little Escape IS rated to tow what his small boat weighs. Edited September 3, 2011 by F250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyeste Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 You are no doubt aware that the Explorer has had a clutch based system for almost 20 years. Yes, however not all clutch based center differentials are built the same, I've never read a report of an Explorer or Expedition's center clutch pack over heating. As a matter of fact has I understand it the Explorer was the first application of a clutch based center differential by borg-warner. In initial testing they identified issues with the clutch pack over heating and changed the design so this didn't happen. So apparently the system in the new Explorer didn't get a similar design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Yes, however not all clutch based center differentials are built the same, I've never read a report of an Explorer or Expedition's center clutch pack over heating. As a matter of fact has I understand it the Explorer was the first application of a clutch based center differential by borg-warner. In initial testing they identified issues with the clutch pack over heating and changed the design so this didn't happen. So apparently the system in the new Explorer didn't get a similar design. ever seen a bogus test such as this before on the Explorer and Expedition....question me this...how did it survive the Dubai Desert in FAR more extreme conditions than these?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyeste Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Heck, you can't rock climb in a Durango. And in any event, I question the methodology here---If it were a true test of off-roading chops no way the Pilot should've completed the course if 5 other vehicles failed. Not that there was a course. This was just idiots in a sandbox. Actually 3 cross-overs had the AWD fail and three didn't; the Honda, Toyota and Dodge didn't have issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I've never read a report of an Explorer or Expedition's center clutch pack over heating. Therefore it never happened, right? Like I said, I could DESTROY a previous Explorer if I wanted to. Would you take that as proof that the previous Explorer sucked, if my experience was documented in Popular Mechanics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) Actually 3 cross-overs had the AWD fail and three didn't; the Honda, Toyota and Dodge didn't have issues. And that doesn't prove a goddamn thing. Thread closed, and if you don't like it, you can kiss my ass. Edited September 14, 2011 by RichardJensen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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