akirby Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The vast majority of Americans agree that we need to cut the deficit. The vast majority of Americans also agree that it needs to be done with a combination of cuts and revenue increases, whether that be closing loopholes, eliminating subsidies, or letting the Bush cuts - which proved after all to be about as useful as a screen door on a submarine - sunset like they were supposed to. Do opponents of letting these cuts sunset have a problem with doing what was promised at the outset, or is just another classic case of bait-and-switch? My link My link People would be MUCH more willing to accept tax increases or expiration of previous tax cuts if they also saw hard evidence of spending cuts to go along with it. Politicians on both sides have a history of NOT cutting spending and I for one am afraid that we'd get the tax increases and the spending would simply continue unabated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Just read the part in red, the rest doesn't matter... People like Die/parts, dad and Aces don't understand the difference. If tomorrow Bartlett comes out and says Obama's decisions are solely responsibility for the state of the economy, they will disregard him as being another Bush lacky. That's true - and the quote you cite is not the first place I have heard it. "Uncertaintly"? Puh-leeze. Look at the years between 2000 - 2008. Worst terrorist attack in our history, a couple of wars, and economic collapse. But at least we knew we had a stable tax and regulatory environment, right? Pfft. Couple facts here you seem to have missed. 1. Terrorist Attack. You do realize the worse one before 9/11 happened on Clinton's watch, yet you didn't blame him right? You also realize that 9/11 was thought of, planned, and initiated on Clinton's watch right? So why do you only blame one person for it? Furthermore, through the efforts of the Bush Administration, the US soil has been far more protected than it has ever been in the past 2. Wars. Glad you weren't around to cast a vote in the 40's. Speaking of votes, you might want to check to see who voted for the actions in the Middle East. And while you're at it, please check to see what Obama has done while being Commander in Chief. Or have you forgotten about Libya 3. Economic collapse. Again, you do realize that the problems with the economy are world wide right? So why do you ignore this issue, and blame the problem solely on one person? Furthermore, if what Bush did was so wrong, why have things gotten worse under Obama? Where is his blame? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Retro, the project I am working on, that I am trying to include you in, is not going forward for one reason: uncertainty. Should I tell them that they are fools? Since we are talking specifics, here are a few things they are talking about: (the client is a quasi-governmental group of investors) What will the obligations be to employees in the future? This causes them to bump up the expected future cost of employees, just in case. They feel "certain" that contributions for unemployment insurance, workers comp, health insurance, and the employee contribution to FICA will possibly go up. This makes the business plan more challenging. Because this project involves automobiles, they are concerned about new regulations for hazardous waste disposal, in-door air quality, VOC limitations, and several other environmental issues. Will there be other government subsidized activities that would be less risky alternatives? For example, would investment in a wind farm or solar facility with heavy subsidies provide a more favorable return? And the biggest one of all: since this project is tourism supported, will the price of gas be so high and employment so low that tourism will not recover? There is no risk associated with them sitting on their money. So right now, that is what they are doing: sitting and waiting. As the developer, I can deal with a lot of objections, but not one of these. Edited October 4, 2011 by xr7g428 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partsisparts Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Cocheese, Please do not insinuate that I have two names by referring to me as Die/parts. I have only one name partsisparts. If you don't like what I have to say ignore me. But, don't slander me please. Thanks for your cooperation, Partsisparts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Cocheese, Please do not insinuate that I have two names by referring to me as Die/parts. I have only one name partsisparts. If you don't like what I have to say ignore me. But, don't slander me please. Thanks for your cooperation, Partsisparts In fairness, you don't really say much these days. But instead have attempted to be Aces Jr with all the link bombing of opinion based articles from Left Wing web sites. And in case you haven't noticed, the Mods aren't happy with this sort of membership. Join the discussion like an adult, and you'll get treated like one. Continue on like dad and Aces, and well........ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 In fairness, you don't really say much these days. But instead have attempted to be Aces Jr with all the link bombing of opinion based articles from Left Wing web sites. And in case you haven't noticed, the Mods aren't happy with this sort of membership. Join the discussion like an adult, and you'll get treated like one. Continue on like dad and Aces, and well........ Watch it. I'm not trying to take any sides on this. No need to throw around insults of ANY type. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partsisparts Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) In fairness, you don't really say much these days. But instead have attempted to be Aces Jr with all the link bombing of opinion based articles from Left Wing web sites. And in case you haven't noticed, the Mods aren't happy with this sort of membership. Join the discussion like an adult, and you'll get treated like one. Continue on like dad and Aces, and well........ So basically, if I don't post in the manner that you like, you are going to make up stories about me and slander me like you do to Aces and dad.If you don't like what I post ignore me. You have no right right to make up stories about me. You are not the judge and jury. Thank you Nick, for your quick response. Edited October 4, 2011 by partsisparts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Let no-one be a fool and forget this is not our sandbox. It belongs to someone else. They can enforce their own policies at will. Each of you have the choice to abide their polices or go play somewhere else. Please, if that is your intent, do so before they are compelled to lock or close more threads. This practice of bouncing around, starting new threads with the same old behavior, then antagonizing the Mods is "Slash and Burn" at it's worst. It's kinda childish to take the attitude that if "you" can't say or do what you want, then no-one gets to say or do what they would despite intents to operate within the site's restrictions. Kill the flaming!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Kill the flaming!!!!!!!!!!!! :yup: After looking through some of the threads I have closed, they were all basically the exact same argument, so why have six different threads for it? Stay on topic. Stay civil. That's really all we ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 So basically, if I don't post in the manner that you like, you are going to make up stories about me and slander me like you do to Aces and dad.If you don't like what I post ignore me. You have no right right to make up stories about me. You are not the judge and jury. Thank you Nick, for your quick response. Slander and intimidation are allowed here. Opinion is not....unless it is right wing opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Slander and intimidation are allowed here. Opinion is not....unless it is right wing opinion of course. It is not allowed from either side of the aisle. Now move on already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) ... Edited October 4, 2011 by NickF1011 This will be discussed privately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) ... Edited October 4, 2011 by NickF1011 I told you it would be edited again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) ... Edited October 4, 2011 by NickF1011 Let's all move on! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) ... Edited October 4, 2011 by NickF1011 enough 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Why do you two have to act like a couple kids? Seriously!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) .... Edited October 4, 2011 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I'm going back to ignoring all of you. This is ridiculous. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 You get what ya earned. Your not a nice person and you get treated as such. now please if you could indulge yourself, give me my negative rating and be done with it. Who treats me "badly"? I've never felt that way, nor claimed that to be the case. In reality, I am very happy with the way I'm treated. Added to the fact, the Mods have come down on my side plenty of times, and I'd say I'm doing pretty good. And since you always seem to bring it up, my "rating" is pretty damn good. 2,200 points better than you. If it makes you feel better, I gave you a +, just so that we wouldn't have to hear you whine. Now if you would just stop making false accusations, then we would all be happy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Can we knock this off already? We don't come down on "sides". We just want to keep the peace. End of story. Now both of you quit poking at each other!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro-man Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Couple facts here you seem to have missed. 1. Terrorist Attack. You do realize the worse one before 9/11 happened on Clinton's watch, yet you didn't blame him right? You also realize that 9/11 was thought of, planned, and initiated on Clinton's watch right? So why do you only blame one person for it? Furthermore, through the efforts of the Bush Administration, the US soil has been far more protected than it has ever been in the past I would love to see what you would be posting if 9/11 had happened on Obama's watch, and "the worse one before 9/11" (please refresh my memory on what that one was, because it so pales in comparison to 9/11 that I don't even remember it) had happened on Bush's watch. A couple other inconvenient points: a.) Clinton might have had more time to tend to this, if he hadn't been preoccupied with Ken Starr's sham trial over his off-hours whoopie making. I don't know about you, but that whole thing looked pretty frivolous in the face of 9/11. and b.) It is a well known matter of record, included in the 9/11 commission report, that outgoing security advisor Sandy Berger's warnings about AlQaeda were brushed off by the Bush administration. Here: Link bone up a little on this. It'll be good for you. 2. Wars. Glad you weren't around to cast a vote in the 40's. Speaking of votes, you might want to check to see who voted for the actions in the Middle East. And while you're at it, please check to see what Obama has done while being Commander in Chief. Or have you forgotten about Libya Wasn't happy with interventionism then, not happy with it now. Obama's position on Iraq is one of the reasons I voted for him - as contrasted to Hillary's and many other Democrat's craven submission to the fear and treason mongering of the administration leading up to that vote. They were capitalizing on the public's grief and fear after 9/11 to push a pre-existing and unrelated agenda - and yes, I do and did hold it against them. 3. Economic collapse. Again, you do realize that the problems with the economy are world wide right? So why do you ignore this issue, and blame the problem solely on one person? Furthermore, if what Bush did was so wrong, why have things gotten worse under Obama? Where is his blame? Everybody is having some trouble - but I keep in close touch with many people overseas, and they are in nowhere near the funk that we are in - and that includes my friends in Japan, post Kanto earthquake / tsunami / meltdown, and in their 15th year of recession. Look at unemployment rates by country around the world. I've had job offers right across the border in Canada. We are in worse shape than most of our peers (and what does that do for our notions of American exceptionalism, and the shrill cries of "socialism" emanating from the right?) Let's not even talk about current accounts balance, in which we are dead last in the world - much of which is due to our imbecilic trade policy - or rather our imbecilic lack of a trade policy. I have to give credit to some Republicans for at least starting to mention this - and criticism to both Clinton and Obama for entering into agreements that make it even worse. I don't blame Bush for the economic meltdown, and if I sometimes sound like I do, I apologize (though it did cap off his 8 years in office). He did, for the record, leave a few bankrupt businesses and the State of Texas broke when he left - so his performance with the country was somewhat predictable (though even I didn't imagine it would be as bad as it was). The meltdown however is the culmination of policies going back decades. There is blame on both sides of the aisle. It's just that the natural proclivities to deregulation and economic elitism held by Bush blinded him to what was coming, and made him singularly ill equipped to do anything about it in my opinion. Anybody who thinks our economic troubles would be solved in 4 years is naive. The best we can hope for is to lay the groundwork for recovery. I don't believe that returning to the 1890s is the answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Can we knock this off already? We don't come down on "sides". We just want to keep the peace. End of story. Now both of you quit poking at each other!! If these children don't knock it off (on both sides), I suggest you turn this thread around right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 If these children don't knock it off (on both sides), I suggest you turn this thread around right now. Don't think I won't do it!! And I'll send 'em straight to bed with no supper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Don't think I won't do it!! And I'll send 'em straight to bed with no supper. "Ward, try not to be too hard on the Beaver!" (If you didn't know it first aired today, October 4 in 1957 True fact) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Don't think I won't do it!! And I'll send 'em straight to bed with no supper. I still remember the first time I said "Don't make me come back there" while driving down the road. I looked around and expected to see my Dad laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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