Carl Edwards A True Gentleman

[bobbyd]

OK, its not what us Ford lovers wanted , but Carl came close to a Championship win. Nobody can realize how hard this was emotionally to accept defeat , especially after losing by only 1 silly point. . Carl stayed away from trash talking and that alone deserves my respect. Every time Carl has been interviewed throughout the year, he ALWAYS thanked Ford and promoted the Blue Oval. Now that the season is over and we look to next racing season, I must throw in a suggestion. Its the ENGINE dept. I am an old school guy who followed Ford when Davey Allison was our hero and Robert Yates was the engine builder. He was dominant. Robert's son, Doug Yates, has replaced his dad and coupled up with Rousch on engine development. The problem is that the competition has caught up and now with Toyota approved with their new engine and a clear dominant performance from the Chevy of Stewart in the past month or so....Ford needs a new man to head up the engine group. Ford lost 3 experimental engines in the race and thankfully Carl was not a victim, but he clearly could not pass Stewart in the last few races that were left. Some will argue that its car set up...but it ALWAYS comes down to Horsepower. I love Jack Rousch, but as he ages and some of his guys have jumped to Toyota ....we need anew man if we are going to take the championship next year. Just a thought.

[RichardJensen]

It's not just manpower, it's money.

 

As should be clear, Nascar is not a priority for Ford. Maybe they can spend a bit more on Nascar now than they have in the past, but I wouldn't expect Ford to spend anywhere near what Toyota and GM are dumping into this sport.

 

Nor would I expect Ford to get involved in F1 any time soon, and for much the same reason: The cost of competition is unsupportable.

[FordBuyer]

OK, its not what us Ford lovers wanted , but Carl came close to a Championship win. Nobody can realize how hard this was emotionally to accept defeat , especially after losing by only 1 silly point. . Carl stayed away from trash talking and that alone deserves my respect. Every time Carl has been interviewed throughout the year, he ALWAYS thanked Ford and promoted the Blue Oval. Now that the season is over and we look to next racing season, I must throw in a suggestion. Its the ENGINE dept. I am an old school guy who followed Ford when Davey Allison was our hero and Robert Yates was the engine builder. He was dominant. Robert's son, Doug Yates, has replaced his dad and coupled up with Rousch on engine development. The problem is that the competition has caught up and now with Toyota approved with their new engine and a clear dominant performance from the Chevy of Stewart in the past month or so....Ford needs a new man to head up the engine group. Ford lost 3 experimental engines in the race and thankfully Carl was not a victim, but he clearly could not pass Stewart in the last few races that were left. Some will argue that its car set up...but it ALWAYS comes down to Horsepower. I love Jack Rousch, but as he ages and some of his guys have jumped to Toyota ....we need anew man if we are going to take the championship next year. Just a thought.

 

It would have been a travesty for Edwards to win championship having won so few races throughout the NASCAR year. NASCAR has to make wins count for more points next year to make championship mean something. Only in NASCAR do you get this muddled system. NASCAR is a joke and unwatchable for most part. Only racing worse is Indy car oval racing. Indy road racing is not bad at all.

 

As for Ford, I would like to see them get involved in LeMans again and join the ALMS series GT class and take on BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, and Corvette. Since Ford is supposedly turning the GT500 into an all out halo car with racing suspension and brakes, it can run it in racing series. Or the Boss Mustang that seems to have the legs needed to run with the big boys. Forget NASCAR with the stick on headlights and grille.

[RichardJensen]

LeMans again and join the ALMS series GT class

A brief summary of what's wrong with motorsports---and there isn't a single formula that isn't severely messed up these days:

 

Nascar - It's WWE on wheels. Rules are arbitrary and arbitrarily changed, the formula is an antique joke, driver conduct is bad and getting worse and punishment is suspect

 

F1 - An incestuous bribery filled circus. An organization with a kind of insular corruption that only the Europeans seem to tolerate; FIFA on wheels. At least their formula is starting to make sense, but any company on the outside of this particular brand of insanity is well advised to stay outside. Even if they've powered over 300 race winners. A peculiar device which funnels money into the hands of incompetent fools, knaves, dissolute bastards and the insatiably greedy. A bomb going off in the VIP paddock of any F1 event would rid the earth of some of its most unrepentant thieves.

 

LeMans - Just like F1, but on a smaller scale. The game was rigged for diesel coincident with a major investment in the sport by two diesel powerhouses (Audi & Peugeot). You can't trust the stability of the premier formulas in this sport. If you want the formula rigged in favor of gas, get out your wallet. Or electric. Or natural gas, etc.

 

ALMS - to the extent that they're piggybacked on the ACO's rules, they're subject to the same criticisms

 

NHRA - More hidebound than Nascar. Fossil formulas content with their own slow petrification. Use a different bore spacing? Forgetaboutit. About as interesting as model rocketry.

 

IndyCar - doesn't know what it is, where it's going or what it's going to do when it gets there. Used to be great. Now it's just a joke. The race at Las Vegas is an indictment of everything that's bad about that series: Driver safety not a concern, promoter assurances taken at face value, disorganized/scatterbrained organization etc.

 

Support series - nobody cares. Not deserving of any significant investment. They're support series, for crying out loud. The ones at Nascar tracks are little more than background noise to get drunk by.

 

WRC - An odd sport for oddballs. Requires an immense amount of 'institutional knowledge' to compete. But of all the series, it's probably the sanest. Even though it's overseen by the same rotten body of institutionalized favor-seeking and privilege that oversees F1. Possibly it is less corrupt because there is less money being wasted on this formula.

Edited November 21, 2011 by RichardJensen

[IMSA-XJR9]

As for Ford, I would like to see them get involved in LeMans again and join the ALMS series GT class and take on BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, and Corvette.

 

Ford (Roush/Yates) has had an engine for ALMS/Le Mans since last season. There may be a team thinking of using said engine this upcoming season. (And there is also talk (take it for what it is worth) that FMC may be back in Indy in the not-too-distant future (2013-2014) as an engine supplier (or engine promoter utilizing an engine partnership.))

 

And as far as ALMS GT . . . I agree it would be fantastic if FMC became involved in some form or fashion, but they will not. FMC didn't even offer 'much' support to the Robertson Racing 5.0L GTs that have been running the past few seasons . . . .

 

In regards to last nights race . . . Tony took 4 tires his last stop, Carl took 2. Tony was ~23 seconds behind Carl before the last caution after (what would be) final pit stop. Tony seemed to be able to dive deeper in the corners and "slide" up better when passing (much like a dirt track racer would?!) than Carl. All-in-all it was nice to see the last laps be decide by the top 2 in points and the best racers of the day/afternoon.

Edited November 21, 2011 by IMSA-XJR9

[blksn8k2]

I take it you're not a fan of professional racing, eh Richard?

 

As for the OP's point about outdated or uncompetitive Ford engines, the Ford FR9 NASCAR engine was only released to all the Ford teams in Sprint Cup near the end of the 2010 season and in the Nationwide Series this year. It is as state of the art as a NASCAR engine can be. As a matter of fact, at one point during this season Tony Stewart suggested that there be an investigation into the legality of the FR9 because he felt the other makes (read GM) were at a disadvantage. There is more to fielding a competitive car than having the most powerful engine and as has been stated it usually comes down to cubic dollars which is not much different than any other professional sport. Stewart-Haas Racing is "affiliated" with Hendrick Motorsports and receives their engines and technical support from them the same way that Richard Petty Motorsports and Wood Brothers Racing are tied to Roush-Fenway Racing. Hendrick is probably the most powerful (richest) team in the sport with Roush-Fenway not far behind.

[ausrutherford]

Its NACAR...theres nothing stock about it.

[RichardJensen]

I take it you're not a fan of professional racing, eh Richard?

 

Every major formula has gotten steadily worse since I started following racing about 20 years ago. It seems incomprehensible, and yet there it is. I defy anyone to name a formula which is more competitive and more sane than it was in 1992.

 

I mean when you've got so much money and so little accountability------it just blows me away that participants in these series are content to be dictated to by irresponsible oligarchs, their cronies and their kin.

 

Look at the France family, at Ecclestone, at Tony George, and any of their assorted consiglieres, deputies, cats' paws and so forth..

 

I don't think there's anyone at the top of the major sanctioning bodies capable of earning an honest dollar. If they're not brainless ninnies born with silver spoons in their mouths, they're out and out cheats, liars, self-dealers and corrupt and corrupting ogres.

[bobbyd]

Good info...Carl was not getting good mileage like Tony (55 laps average)..and Carl did come in for 2 tires after Tony took his last stop. I think it would have been closer if Brad Keslowski (who dislikes Carl) refused to move over, like Kenseth did for Tony earlier. By the time Carl wasted a number of laps stuck behind Brad it was too late. Tony was already 1.3 seconds ahead and Carl did not have the HP to catch him. I can't imagine how Carl feels this morning, but he did not blame anyone and was a real gentleman.

 

 

Ford (Roush/Yates) has had an engine for ALMS/Le Mans since last season. There may be a team thinking of using said engine this upcoming season. (And there is also talk (take it for what it is worth) that FMC may be back in Indy in the not-too-distant future (2013-2014) as an engine supplier (or engine promoter utilizing an engine partnership.))

 

And as far as ALMS GT . . . I agree it would be fantastic if FMC became involved in some form or fashion, but they will not. FMC didn't even offer 'much' support to the Robertson Racing 5.0L GTs that have been running the past few seasons . . . .

 

In regards to last nights race . . . Tony took 4 tires his last stop, Carl took 2. Tony was ~23 seconds behind Carl before the last caution after (what would be) final pit stop. Tony seemed to be able to dive deeper in the corners and "slide" up better when passing (much like a dirt track racer would?!) than Carl. All-in-all it was nice to see the last laps be decide by the top 2 in points and the best racers of the day/afternoon.

[FordBuyer]

Ford (Roush/Yates) has had an engine for ALMS/Le Mans since last season. There may be a team thinking of using said engine this upcoming season. (And there is also talk (take it for what it is worth) that FMC may be back in Indy in the not-too-distant future (2013-2014) as an engine supplier (or engine promoter utilizing an engine partnership.))

 

And as far as ALMS GT . . . I agree it would be fantastic if FMC became involved in some form or fashion, but they will not. FMC didn't even offer 'much' support to the Robertson Racing 5.0L GTs that have been running the past few seasons . . . .

 

In regards to last nights race . . . Tony took 4 tires his last stop, Carl took 2. Tony was ~23 seconds behind Carl before the last caution after (what would be) final pit stop. Tony seemed to be able to dive deeper in the corners and "slide" up better when passing (much like a dirt track racer would?!) than Carl. All-in-all it was nice to see the last laps be decide by the top 2 in points and the best racers of the day/afternoon.

 

That's too bad because the GT class in ALMS is about at good as it gets. LMP not so much, but it was exciting seeing Audi LMP cars spraying carbon all over the track at Petite Leman at Road Atlanta which is a spectacle and great fun to watch. Bergermeister chasing down the BMW and passing on next to last lap after over 11 hours of racing was as good as it gets for sure. Would have been nice to see a factory backed Boss Mustang mixing it up and winning a 12 hour race says something about the company that makes it. A BMW M or Porsche GT3 Cup Car is not a NASCAR racer with different front stickers, but a factory production car with some mods. And watching GT cars trying to dodge much faster LMP class racers and race each other at same time is a hoot. Very interesting races within races.

[Kev-Mo]

Everyone knows the rules going in, so to complain about what is wrong with the rules is simply that complaining. All professional sports (and college level for that matter) have succumbed to the almighty $$ as the priority, and not the simple love of the sport. The fans are not the priority, but extracting money from the fans is so in reality, all sports have learned from WWE.

 

That being said, congrats to Tony Stewart, he did what he had to do. It was Edwards championship to lose and Stewart took it away clean. Edwards was gracious in defeat, and he deserves to be congratulated for that. Somehow I feel - that like in all sports, there are great players and there are champions, Edwards is a great player, but he may not be a champion. But who knows? It took the likes of John Elway a few tries to get the ring.

 

One more comment, I think Joe Gibbs and his Toyota teams have more money than anyone. It is inevitable that they will be champs someday simply as a function of funding.

 

Note to Ford go all in or get out. Pretty simple!

Edited November 21, 2011 by Kev-Mo

[RichardJensen]

Everyone knows the rules going in

The issue is not the rules, it is the bodies that make the rules.

Note to Ford – go all in or get out. Pretty simple!

Not really. Roush, Yates and the Wood Bros. are turning a profit even if they're not winning championships, and as I've observed before, I'm convinced that Ford's involvement in Nascar at this point is out of family loyalty to the three Nascar families that have been with Ford since the 60s. Heck, Ford took the Wood Bros. pit crews to LeMans.

 

I can't imagine that Ford sees any real marketing value for its investment in Nascar.

[Deanh]

Its NACAR...theres nothing stock about it.

reminds me, watched the Aussie V8's this weekend, AND its coming here...could be interesting watching fans migrate as its a far better spectacle than Nascar.....( well, I suppose thats an opinion, but I'll stick to it )

[FordBuyer]

reminds me, watched the Aussie V8's this weekend, AND its coming here...could be interesting watching fans migrate as its a far better spectacle than Nascar.....( well, I suppose thats an opinion, but I'll stick to it )

 

NASCAR is basically a SPEC series, not a STOCK car series. A bunch of COT cars running around with different headlight and grille stickers on them so that fans can differentiate between "make" of vehicles. No different than watching a spec Miata race with everyone bunched up with nowhere to go. The only difference is that a spec Miata race is more fun to watch with less yellow flags out there every other lap or so. I can see Ford remaining in NASCAR only because GM, Toyota, and Chrysler remain and offer factory support. However, with only four manufacturers running COT cars in a Spec Series, IMO it makes NASCAR even less relevant to what's running on public roads.

 

With NASCAR sponsoring Grand-Am Series and having Daytona 24 hour race, maybe NASCAR can over time develop Grand-Am into something worth considering as NASCAR continues to die a slow death. Oval racing sucks big time and there is talk of NASCAR running more road courses. At least that is mildly entertaining, but if more road courses are going to be added to NASCAR schedule, might as well switch drivers to Grand-Am racers for those events and ditch those screwy COT cars. Even a tube racer Mustang competing with tube racer Camaro on road course is more fun than high banked oval racing with those horrible COT cars.

[NLPRacing]

reminds me, watched the Aussie V8's this weekend, AND its coming here...could be interesting watching fans migrate as its a far better spectacle than Nascar.....( well, I suppose thats an opinion, but I'll stick to it )

 

It's supposed to come here and I would love to go, but... Circuit of the Americas Construction Grinds to a Halt...Again

 

Who knows if we'll ever see cars on that track.

[Deanh]

It's supposed to come here and I would love to go, but... Circuit of the Americas Construction Grinds to a Halt...Again

 

Who knows if we'll ever see cars on that track.

thats what you get when Elton Johns grandfather is involved....

Edited November 21, 2011 by Deanh

[NLPRacing]

thats what you get when Elton Johns grandfateher is involved....

 

I blame Red McCombs. First he screwed up my Vikings and tried to move them to San Antonio and now he's messing up an international race track in Austin.

[Deanh]

I blame Red McCombs. First he screwed up my Vikings and tried to move them to San Antonio and now he's messing up an international race track in Austin.

gung ho is an understatement here, I guess he took it for granted F1 would be coming....course, that wouldnt reqire any paperwork at all would it????? a case of build the track and they will come...

[RichardJensen]

First he screwed up my Vikings

Ugg. They're having a terrible year.

 

But I will credit them, and the Jackrabbits, and my fantasy team, for pushing me through to a new level of peace where I as a fan, give a rip only when the team's doing good.

 

Of what benefit is it to anyone besides my alienist if I get upset over things I have no control over, e.g. the horrible draft choices of the Childress years--along with his gutting of what was once a premier offensive line (only guy he kept? McKinnie--that should give you some idea how terrible a coach he was), or the poor choices for starters and the lousy 2009 recruits for my Jackrabbits, or the bizarre scoring system, serpentine draft and accursed requirement to carry a tight end in my fantasy league (TE league means this: the guy who gets Antonio Gates gets free points. Everyone else has a boat anchor in their lineup). Collectively, I'm 9-21 on the year and....I'm okay with that.

[NLPRacing]

Ugg. They're having a terrible year.

 

But I will credit them, and the Jackrabbits, and my fantasy team, for pushing me through to a new level of peace where I as a fan, give a rip only when the team's doing good.

 

Of what benefit is it to anyone besides my alienist if I get upset over things I have no control over, e.g. the horrible draft choices of the Childress years--along with his gutting of what was once a premier offensive line (only guy he kept? McKinnie--that should give you some idea how terrible a coach he was), or the poor choices for starters and the lousy 2009 recruits for my Jackrabbits, or the bizarre scoring system, serpentine draft and accursed requirement to carry a tight end in my fantasy league (TE league means this: the guy who gets Antonio Gates gets free points. Everyone else has a boat anchor in their lineup). Collectively, I'm 9-21 on the year and....I'm okay with that.

 

It was a pretty rough sports year for me. The Texas Rangers can't pull out what should of been a sure win in a game 6, the Vikings are sucking, the Cowboys are doing good (that's bad for me), Packers are doing awesome (even worse for me) and Carl Edwards loses the championship because of a stupid tiebreaker to Tony Stewart of all people. At least Stenhouse won the NASCAR Nationwide title driving a Roush "Mustang". Oh well, after being a Vikings fan for many years, it has taught me to just wait until next year. At least we'll get a good draft pick, that Michael Floyd from Notre Dame would make a great receiver...

[RichardJensen]

Packers are doing awesome

That will make the inevitable loss so much sweeter.

 

They've got a terrible pass defense, and A-Rodg gets sacked an awful lot for being a superstar.

 

I don't like Schwartz and I think Suh is .... exactly what Schwartz wants him to be. But I'll be smiling if Suh sacks Rodgers and then does that *incredibly* annoying wrestling belt thing.

 

Oh, and open letter to Packers fans:

 

Dear Band-wagoners, old and new:

 

Remember when it drove you nuts to hear ESPN talking about Favre all the time?

 

Your complacency in the face of excessive praise of Aaron Rodgers illustrates your hypocrisy.

 

Sincerely,

 

Someone who realizes that McCarthy is a bonehead, as you will soon enough.

[Bored of Pisteon]

A brief summary of what's wrong with motorsports---and there isn't a single formula that isn't severely messed up these days:

 

Nascar - It's WWE on wheels. Rules are arbitrary and arbitrarily changed, the formula is an antique joke, driver conduct is bad and getting worse and punishment is suspect

 

F1 - An incestuous bribery filled circus. An organization with a kind of insular corruption that only the Europeans seem to tolerate; FIFA on wheels. At least their formula is starting to make sense, but any company on the outside of this particular brand of insanity is well advised to stay outside. Even if they've powered over 300 race winners. A peculiar device which funnels money into the hands of incompetent fools, knaves, dissolute bastards and the insatiably greedy. A bomb going off in the VIP paddock of any F1 event would rid the earth of some of its most unrepentant thieves.

 

LeMans - Just like F1, but on a smaller scale. The game was rigged for diesel coincident with a major investment in the sport by two diesel powerhouses (Audi & Peugeot). You can't trust the stability of the premier formulas in this sport. If you want the formula rigged in favor of gas, get out your wallet. Or electric. Or natural gas, etc.

 

ALMS - to the extent that they're piggybacked on the ACO's rules, they're subject to the same criticisms

 

NHRA - More hidebound than Nascar. Fossil formulas content with their own slow petrification. Use a different bore spacing? Forgetaboutit. About as interesting as model rocketry.

 

IndyCar - doesn't know what it is, where it's going or what it's going to do when it gets there. Used to be great. Now it's just a joke. The race at Las Vegas is an indictment of everything that's bad about that series: Driver safety not a concern, promoter assurances taken at face value, disorganized/scatterbrained organization etc.

 

Support series - nobody cares. Not deserving of any significant investment. They're support series, for crying out loud. The ones at Nascar tracks are little more than background noise to get drunk by.

 

WRC - An odd sport for oddballs. Requires an immense amount of 'institutional knowledge' to compete. But of all the series, it's probably the sanest. Even though it's overseen by the same rotten body of institutionalized favor-seeking and privilege that oversees F1. Possibly it is less corrupt because there is less money being wasted on this formula.

 

Somebody needs to start up a demolition derby league, federation, club, etc...That would be great to watch on TV every week!

 

One side: The big ol' beasts from yesteryear vs. The new modern foreign plasticrap garbage. Guess who wins!

 

Another one: Minivans vs. Crossovers featuring bikini clad soccer moms.

[fou_bleu]

Our V8 Supercars series is not exempt from the list RJ did - it's probably in the same vein as NASCAR going by those descriptions. Same scenario on a different weekend sees different adjudications!

 

Spending in V8SC is also stupid high at the moment - the bigger teams easily spend 2-3 times more in a year than the lower teams and it must be so disheartening for the teams that work soooo hard all year, just to get 25th in the championship, where the said big teams just turn up each weekend to secure 1st spot! Where's the sportsmanship in that? Hopefully the Car of the Future will fix this like V8SCi (International) tout it will by halving car-costs and allowing teams to reduce their budgets.

 

Some of the best series out there are the one-make series designed to show off driver talent rather than the money behind them - we need more of these type series to draw the crowds back IMO...

[TopCat501]

Good info...Carl was not getting good mileage like Tony (55 laps average)..and Carl did come in for 2 tires after Tony took his last stop. I think it would have been closer if Brad Keslowski (who dislikes Carl) refused to move over, like Kenseth did for Tony earlier. By the time Carl wasted a number of laps stuck behind Brad it was too late. Tony was already 1.3 seconds ahead and Carl did not have the HP to catch him. I can't imagine how Carl feels this morning, but he did not blame anyone and was a real gentleman.

 

First thing I thought about when Keslowski did that was how Burton gave Stewart an additional point in the preceding race on the very last lap of the race. How prophetic was the reporter who wrote this article:

http://wap.yahoo.com/w/sports/home/experts/article?offset=1&urn=urn%3Anewsml%3Asports.yahoo%2Cyhoo%3A20050301%3Anascar%2Carticle%2Cjh-ford-400-edwards-stewart-loyalty-111911%3A1&.ts=1321739737&.ysid=hRwkrL2UYU_Ey6SEodCa58XB&.intl=US&.lang=en

 

HOMESTEAD, Fla. – If Tony Stewart wins the 2011 Sprint Cup title by one point over Carl Edwards , he'll have Jeff Burton to thank.

 

 

On the final lap of last Sunday's penultimate race in the 2011 Chase for the Sprint Cup Championship, Edwards was running second, Stewart fourth. Between them was Burton. Though Stewart and Burton aren't teammates, they do share a common bond: Both drive Chevrolets. So when Stewart came up on Burton's bumper, Burton moved over, allowing Stewart to take third without a fight and gain one more point in the standings.

 

Though it might not sound like much, one point could prove the difference in the championship, and it was gained all because of loyalty

[bifs66]

.......So when Stewart came up on Burton's bumper, Burton moved over, allowing Stewart to take third without a fight and gain one more point in the standings.

 

Though it might not sound like much, one point could prove the difference in the championship, and it was gained all because of loyalty

[/i]

 

I had the same thought after that previous race.