GaryG Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 The only one with sticker shock was you. Anybody who expected the price for a full electric vehicle to be anything less than $40K was delusional. Delusional is both you and Ford. 10 buyers? You must have ordered 10 I presume? How many hybrids do you own or ever thought about ordering. Again, you and your other poster post under the same IPO! Are you married to that guy that you just post the same crap and back each other up? The real issue is what I predicted, no one is ordering the Focus EV. The bottom line is there are few buyers. I can't say for them it was sticker shock, but I can say Ford has a problem with sales. Anyone with half a brain would know you don't understand the problem. I truly wanted the Focus EV to make it. I could have helped it make it like I've done with the FEH. You have no idea how so many people let me know that they bought the FEH because of my post and mileage. You are an idiot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The only one with sticker shock was you. Anybody who expected the price for a full electric vehicle to be anything less than $40K was delusional. Maybe I'm missing something, but why is that? The two full-electric vehicles on sale now -- the Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi i-Miev -- start at $35,000 and $29,000, respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Maybe I'm missing something, but why is that? The two full-electric vehicles on sale now -- the Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi i-Miev -- start at $35,000 and $29,000, respectively. Equally equipped the Leaf is at least $38K and I'm not sure it has the same equipment as the Focus, but that's only a $2K difference. The i-Miev is much smaller and cheaper and has a smaller battery. The point is extended range electrics are expensive because the current technology is relatively new and batteries are still really expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Again, you and your other poster post under the same IPO! Are you married to that guy that you just post the same crap and back each other up? Apparently we're both just smarter than you are and infinitely more realistic. The real issue is what I predicted, no one is ordering the Focus EV. The bottom line is there are few buyers. I can't say for them it was sticker shock, but I can say Ford has a problem with sales. Anyone with half a brain would know you don't understand the problem. I truly wanted the Focus EV to make it. I could have helped it make it like I've done with the FEH. You have no idea how so many people let me know that they bought the FEH because of my post and mileage. You are an idiot! I see now. Ford has deprived you of your chance for new fame. You can't go brag about how your hypermiling techniques allowed you to get 120 miles out of one charge. You said before that an all electric Focus should only cost $10K which shows how ignorant you really are. The only reason for Ford to make a vehicle is to make a profit. And that means the Focus EV needs to sell for $40K. They're not going to sell it at a loss just to pump up your ego or make the greenies happy. So if nobody wants it at $40K then they'll stop selling them or wait until the battery cost comes down. The leaf is almost the same price - is Nissan stupid too? Why does a Tesla start at $50K and go up to $90K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Equally equipped the Leaf is at least $38K and I'm not sure it has the same equipment as the Focus, but that's only a $2K difference. The i-Miev is much smaller and cheaper and has a smaller battery. The point is extended range electrics are expensive because the current technology is relatively new and batteries are still really expensive. You could argue that the Focus is worth the extra money, but saying it's "delusional" to have thought it wouldn't be more money than its closest competitor seems a bit extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 You could argue that the Focus is worth the extra money, but saying it's "delusional" to have thought it wouldn't be more money than its closest competitor seems a bit extreme. The Focus is already a $25K vehicle nicely equipped. Batteries reportedly cost at least $15K maybe more. Anyone who thought the electric Focus would be significantly cheaper than $40k simply was simply engaging in wishful thinking. Delusional is more fitting to GaryG's assertion that electric vehicles should actually be cheaper than their ICE counterpart and that they should only cost $10K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 You guys are acting like this is some sort of marketing decision that Ford made and they're trying to make $20k profit on the EV Focus. EV drivetrains are expensive right now but that should change over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 The Focus is already a $25K vehicle nicely equipped. Batteries reportedly cost at least $15K maybe more. Anyone who thought the electric Focus would be significantly cheaper than $40k simply was simply engaging in wishful thinking. Delusional is more fitting to GaryG's assertion that electric vehicles should actually be cheaper than their ICE counterpart and that they should only cost $10K. No matter what I thought, it appears I was right on December 14 2011 when you look at the title of this thread by me then. My concerns were just now confirmed that the Focus EV is the best production EV that no one can buy. I was right then and akirby was wrong then and now. Selling only 10 vehicles in 3 months is much worst than I thought because the only person I know that bought one was Google for show of being green. Google can afford this type of advertising. This is not about me like akirby is trying to take issue with. Weather it's 10 sales or 100 sales at this point, Ford has lost more money by asking for more money for the Focus EV. The question now is, does Ford discontinue the Focus EV, or lower the price? It seems to me it's a lose/lose situation unless the tax credit gets much bigger. Now that GM has halted production on the Volt, will they need to extend the halted production date down the road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I don't see how the price difference between a Focus and an EV Focus is any different than that between an Escape and the Escape Hybrid you "championed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 My concerns were just now confirmed that the Focus EV is the best production EV that no one can buy. I was right then and akirby was wrong then and now. How could I be wrong about sales when I never made any prediction about sales? I have no idea whether people will actually buy a $40K EV Focus or any other EV cars. If consumers don't want to pay for EVs then they should stop making them. But to suggest that Ford should lower the cost and lose money on them just so you can have one is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 How could I be wrong about sales when I never made any prediction about sales? I have no idea whether people will actually buy a $40K EV Focus or any other EV cars. If consumers don't want to pay for EVs then they should stop making them. But to suggest that Ford should lower the cost and lose money on them just so you can have one is silly. There you go again, I never stated I wanted Ford to lower the price just for me, I decided that the price was to high period. All you've ranted about is your accusations about me. You could have agreed with me, but you wanted to keep it personal with false claims about me. I'm very glad I passed on buying one and more so now that that sales have tanked. My concerns have always been about Ford surviving, but if you think this is about me, you have a hidden agenda that's not so hidden. I've bought 2 Fords last year and 2 FEH's just before that. The loaded Hybrids I paid sticker plus $500 each and have never ask Ford to lower the price for me. It seems you are making things up to confuse the board for your purposes. The difference between you and I is I give truthful feedback here and on other sites. I'm in the market, your not, but attack those that are. I have years of experience driving in EV, you don't. I know EV battery management and care, you don't have a clue. If you don't care to learn, why are you posting in this thread? - Hidden Agenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Look at the math! There is no engine, only a one speed transmission, no exhaust system, no gas tank or fuel system with filters, no engine gauges, no engine coolant system, no spark plugs or intake filters, no engine starter system and no emission system. On top of that, Ford wants to steal the $7,500 tax credit and battery Company subsidies. These vehicles should be selling for less than $10,000! I'll try to make this as simple as I can for you. You said it was overpriced implying that Ford was overcharging for it by $30,000. I was only trying to point out that this technology was a heck of a lot more expensive than you think it is and that Ford was justified in asking $40K. Does that mean they can sell them at that price? I have no idea nor do I care. The price is what it is relative to where the technology is today. It that's too expensive for you then just say it's too expensive for you and move on like everybody else does. I'd like a Porsche 911 but it's too expensive for me. You don't hear me whining that they should lower the cost so more people could afford them. I'm in the market, your not, but attack those that are. I have years of experience driving in EV, you don't. I know EV battery management and care, you don't have a clue. I truly wanted the Focus EV to make it. I could have helped it make it like I've done with the FEH. You have no idea how so many people let me know that they bought the FEH because of my post and mileage. And you think I'm the one with an agenda? You're upset that Ford took away your opportunity to brag about hypermiling an EV. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 And you think I'm the one with an agenda? You're upset that Ford took away your opportunity to brag about hypermiling an EV. Get over it. I'm far from upset and don't need to brag about hypermiling. It sounds like you have a problem with under performance in life. You have over 8,000 vial post here, and you're not even a moderator. What is your agenda and are you just a sad poster with no name? I post my name and location and write articles to improve peoples mileage like this: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350 That article was for free as most of my post are, but I do get hired for interviews. I have a great retirement plan and don't ever need to work again. I don't need a Ford Focus EV to live the good life and you're insane to think I need to brag about a vehicle that has crashed and burned so far. I told the truth and called the situation. You need to see a doctor for the need for the over 8,000 post plus your other handle's post just on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Happy hypermiling..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Delusional is both you and Ford. 10 buyers? You must have ordered 10 I presume? How many hybrids do you own or ever thought about ordering. Again, you and your other poster post under the same IPO! Are you married to that guy that you just post the same crap and back each other up? I spend a couple days away from here and now akirby and I are married? Damn...don't tell our wives! And what IPO is he talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I spend a couple days away from here and now akirby and I are married? Damn...don't tell our wives! And what IPO is he talking about? I don't know. I chose to give it a rest and not argue any more. But I do wish they would make up their minds whether we're married or the same person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't know. I chose to give it a rest and not argue any more. But I do wish they would make up their minds whether we're married or the same person. Yeah, I'm getting confused. Only in Arkansas is it legal to marry yourself, and I'm not from Arkansas, and I don't think I am either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 No matter what I thought, it appears I was right on December 14 2011 when you look at the title of this thread by me then. My concerns were just now confirmed that the Focus EV is the best production EV that no one can buy. I was right then and akirby was wrong then and now. Selling only 10 vehicles in 3 months is much worst than I thought because the only person I know that bought one was Google for show of being green. Google can afford this type of advertising. This is not about me like akirby is trying to take issue with. Weather it's 10 sales or 100 sales at this point, Ford has lost more money by asking for more money for the Focus EV. The question now is, does Ford discontinue the Focus EV, or lower the price? It seems to me it's a lose/lose situation unless the tax credit gets much bigger. Now that GM has halted production on the Volt, will they need to extend the halted production date down the road? The article is bogus. The Focus BEV was not available for public sales. Only days ago did the EPA rate the Focus, and you must know that it is illegal to sell a car in the USA prior to the EPA rating. The 10 cars were pre-production or PR vehicles, and not retail sold cars. The Focus has no direct competitor as the Leaf is a smaller segment, the Volt is a Plug in Hybrid. I'd say the Leaf is over priced if comparing to the next segment up Focus, and the Focus has features not to be found in the smaller Leaf. So from here it looks like the Focus is a bargin when compared to the Leaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The article is bogus. The Focus BEV was not available for public sales. Only days ago did the EPA rate the Focus, and you must know that it is illegal to sell a car in the USA prior to the EPA rating. The 10 cars were pre-production or PR vehicles, and not retail sold cars. Wish I'd known that at the beginning of this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Wish I'd known that at the beginning of this topic. You shot your wade here 4 month ago on this topic. Your buddy shoot his wade right after you almost every time. If you had enough sense to drive to save gas, prevent accidents and lower the cost of maintenance, the Country would be much better off right now. Instead, you think hypermiling is bragging. Something that could help gas prices because of lower demand you are against? Not smart! What is your mental problem with other posters also? I see a pattern in the other threads on BOF. Then comes your buddy. The Focus EV, Leaf and Volt is priced out of the market. Lets see how far the Focus is priced out of the market when the numbers come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 What about the other 5 or 6 posters who said you were full of crap? Are they all me too? Just let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 A little more news: "Last year, Ford Motor’s chairman Bill Ford expressed doubts that a ground-up electric vehicles would appeal to enough consumers. He worried that the company would need to put big incentives on a dedicated EV in order to “shove them out the door, somehow." The consistent message from Bill Ford, CEO Alan Mulally, and Ms. Gioia has been that Ford will produce as many Ford Focus Electric units as customers demand. So, maybe reports about very modest EV sales should not come as a surprise. Yet, in the past, Mulully has hinted that demand would be strong. “These are going to be the most affordable electric vehicles you can get,” and produced with “more scale than anybody else,” said Mulally. But apparently he was referring to all cars with an extra battery, including hybrid, plug-in hybrid and EV. With the Focus Electric available only in its initial three launch markets through most of this year, and mostly to select fleet customers, the speed of Ford's ramp-up will be limited, compared to competitors. "We continue to expect sales of all-electric to be small even when we ramp up retail production," Sherwood told AutoBlog Green. "This is new technology, and it takes time to take hold." That's clear. The remaining question: How small is small?" http://www.plugincars.com/ford-says-focus-electric-sales-on-track-114094.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Why are you going on and on about the Focus Electric? Let it go, nobody cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Why are you going on and on about the Focus Electric? Let it go, nobody cares. Wait a minute! why are you posting in this thread! How do you know nobody cares? Maybe you don't care, so why are you posting here? Last time I looked, I can post positive and honest post here. Please explain how you know nobody cares you asshole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Get bent. Do you think you control this thread? I'll post anywhere I want. Sorry I wasn't clear, what I meant to say is, nobody cares what your opinion is on this topic. You had a chance to have an intelligent discussion about the real costs of developing new technology, the time it takes for acceptance of the technology and future development of electric vehicles, but you didn't. All you have done since starting this topic is rag on the Focus Electric and anyone who disagrees with you. You haven't said anything that has any merit and when you're challenged on your rambling inane points you resort to name calling. Stop shouting at clouds. Edited March 17, 2012 by transitman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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