Rid Lincoln of FWD...

[NickF1011]

Not having RWD as a poll option sort of makes the whole thing as slanted as those political push-poles.

 

Well, I think the point of the poll was to ask if we'd rather Lincoln be AWD standard or not. We know that Lincoln is NOT going to an all-RWD lineup, so why ask?

Edited May 2, 2012 by NickF1011

[akirby]

Not having RWD as a poll option sort of makes the whole thing as slanted as those political push-poles. AWD cars just don't make that much sense for a great proportion of drivers in the USA. Many live in warm climates or are married with one of the two primary vehicles being a SUV, crossover or 4wd Pick-up. Even in Montana, my wife and I don't need an AWD car. I could easily get to work with a FWD car for all but a day or two every few years. We take the Michelin shod SUV, with traction control and 4wd, when we go on a highway trip in the winter. Buying an AWD car when we will likely always have an SUV or SuperCrew would needlessly cost money at the dealership and the gas pump.

 

AWD is something a lot of people WANT whether they need it or not. But in Ford's case it's the only way to get that much power to the ground using transverse FWD drivetrains.

[aneekr]

We know that Lincoln is NOT going to an all-RWD lineup, so why ask?

 

In that case, the title of this thread might as well be retitled "Rid Lincoln..." and the poll question rephrased as "Should Lincoln continue to exist?"

[NickF1011]

In that case, the title of this thread might as well be retitled "Rid Lincoln..." and the poll question rephrased as "Should Lincoln continue to exist?"

 

Umm...if all Lincolns become standard AWD, wouldn't they have rid them of FWD too?

[goinbroke2]

 

 

I think you're missing the point on what Lincoln is trying to do now.

Your right, I am if they are trying to build micro luxury.

 

Big != luxury. And not every luxury buyer wants a barge. If they did, the best selling luxury cars on the market would not also be some of the smallest. True not everybody wants a barge, but which small luxury car didn't come from a company that had big/luxury cars in the first place? Bmw/mercedes/rolls/whatever all previously had a large (or barge) luxury before going mini. Lincoln is not recognised in the same class and shouldn't imho try to step into that class with a small car to start with. Perhaps down the road but not initially.

 

And your Tata example is ridiculous. Ford is not Tata. A more apt comparison would be to ask if people would buy $40,000 Hyundais? I think we already know the answer to that one. Yes. Yes they will. And I would certainly say the Lincoln name still carries more cachet than Hyundai does.

Meh, I hope your right but I'm concerned your not. I don't want lincoln to be a "me too" small car with leather. I'd rather see it re-emerge as a swanky luxury barge that turns peoples heads and THEN come out with a follow on like a small, well appointed classy car.

 

How about a different analogy? Harley builds bicycles and everybody goes "oooh". CCM builds a motorcycle and everybody goes "huh"?

 

To be even more direct, harley makes a clothes line that sells like hotcakes, but who would buy a "wrangler" motorcycle?

[NickF1011]

Meh, I hope your right but I'm concerned your not. I don't want lincoln to be a "me too" small car with leather. I'd rather see it re-emerge as a swanky luxury barge that turns peoples heads and THEN come out with a follow on like a small, well appointed classy car.

 

After looking at the 2013 MKZ compared to the 2013 Fusion, where do you see a reason for continued concern?

 

How about a different analogy? Harley builds bicycles and everybody goes "oooh". CCM builds a motorcycle and everybody goes "huh"?

 

To be even more direct, harley makes a clothes line that sells like hotcakes, but who would buy a "wrangler" motorcycle?

 

Eh, not quite the same. After all, Hyundai, Tata, Ford, and Lincoln all build automobiles.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

Well, I think the point of the poll was to ask if we'd rather Lincoln be AWD standard or not. We know that Lincoln is NOT going to an all-RWD lineup, so why ask?

 

I would never claim that Lincoln should be All-RWD only. This isn't 1977. How about a poll option like "FWD / AWD / RWD choice". Completely leaving out the drivetrain option, which seems to be preferred by more than half of the people on this board, is a glaring and likely purposeful ommission. It is kind of like asking Russians to choose their favorite alcholic beverage and only offerring them cognac or tequila as possible answers.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

AWD is something a lot of people WANT whether they need it or not. But in Ford's case it's the only way to get that much power to the ground using transverse FWD drivetrains.

 

From what I could find on-line, it looks like AWD comprises 25% of MKZ sales. That is enough to offer it as an option, but trying to force the other 75% of customers into something they don't want bad enough to pay for would be risky.

[retro-man]

What I'd personally like to see for Lincoln, probably wouldn't make any more business sense for Lincoln than my old Thunderbird did for me. I'd like to see them build the finest car in the world, bar none: the kind of car that any President would be proud to be assassinated in: a 180mph, no, 220mph, cocobolo-paneled, leather-upholstered, fully-automated and connected, titanium-framed, suicide-doored, audiophile-stereo'd, martini-bar'd, window-curtained, marianas-deep hand-rubbed lacquered, jeweler-instrumented, wool-carpeted, el-presidente drop-dead gorgeous absolute sled! The kind of car that would get right-wingers foaming at the mouth if Obama gave one as a gift to Wen Jiabao the way Nixon gave a Lincoln to Brezhnev. This car would compete in the same market segment as the Veyron. Arab Princes, rap stars, daughters of Russian Oil Company tycoons, Chinese Nouveau-riche entrepreneurs, and unrepentant Hedge Fund Managers would buy them. It would come standard with a never-before offered at any price exclusive luxury accessory: a speed limit waiver in every jurisdiction in the US. It would be rear wheel drive.

Edited May 4, 2012 by retro-man

[NickF1011]

I would never claim that Lincoln should be All-RWD only. This isn't 1977. How about a poll option like "FWD / AWD / RWD choice". Completely leaving out the drivetrain option, which seems to be preferred by more than half of the people on this board, is a glaring and likely purposeful ommission. It is kind of like asking Russians to choose their favorite alcholic beverage and only offerring them cognac or tequila as possible answers.

 

Ford shouldn't be basing its decisions on what half the members of an enthusiast board prefer.

[aneekr]

What I'd personally like to see for Lincoln, probably wouldn't make any more business sense for Lincoln than my old Thunderbird did for me. I'd like to see them build the finest car in the world, bar none: the kind of car that any President would be proud to be assassinated in: a 180mph, no, 220mph, cocobolo-paneled, leather-upholstered, fully-automated and connected, titanium-framed, suicide-doored, audiophile-stereo'd, martini-bar'd, window-curtained, marianas-deep hand-rubbed lacquered, jeweler-instrumented, wool-carpeted, el-presidente drop-dead gorgeous absolute [/i]sled[/i]! The kind of car that would get right-wingers foaming at the mouth if Obama gave one as a gift to Wen Jiabao the way Nixon gave a Lincoln to Brezhnev. This car would compete in the same market segment as the Veyron. Arab Princes, rap stars, daughters of Russian Oil Company tycoons, Chinese Nouveau-riche entrepreneurs, and unrepentant Hedge Fund Managers would buy them. It would come standard with a never-before offered at any price exclusive luxury accessory: a speed limit waver in every jurisdiction in the US. It would be rear wheel drive.

^^^

I'd like to nominate retro-man's post #34 for POTW.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

Ford shouldn't be basing its decisions on what half the members of an enthusiast board prefer.

 

I have not suggested that they do. The poll is, however, on an enthusiast board. It isn't a poll of randomly selected, potential Lincoln buyers conducted by FOMOCO. Therefore, not giving the skewed audience the obvious option will produce completely misleading results. Does a group of Ford and Lincoln enthusiasts really believe that Lincoln should only offer AWD cars, or only AWD and FWD cars? This poll would say yes to one of those, and either one would be very inaccurate. What possible value is inaccurate information?

[NickF1011]

I have not suggested that they do. The poll is, however, on an enthusiast board. It isn't a poll of randomly selected, potential Lincoln buyers conducted by FOMOCO. Therefore, not giving the skewed audience the obvious option will produce completely misleading results. Does a group of Ford and Lincoln enthusiasts really believe that Lincoln should only offer AWD cars, or only AWD and FWD cars? This poll would say yes to one of those, and either one would be very inaccurate. What possible value is inaccurate information?

 

I think the point of the poll was to see what we'd say to the realistic options, not the pie-in-the-sky-we-already-know-ain't-gonna-happen options.

 

If I posed the question on which girl I should go out with this weekend, one of the two that I know locally or Kate Upton, I'm sure I know which would get the most votes, but the results of such a poll wouldn't realistically do me any good.

[goinbroke2]

Oh ye of little faith. Have you ever ASKED Kate Upton?

 

Well there you go then, you don't KNOW she'd say no right?...LOL!

[probowler]

Not having RWD as a poll option sort of makes the whole thing as slanted as those political push-poles. AWD cars just don't make that much sense for a great proportion of drivers in the USA. Many live in warm climates or are married with one of the two primary vehicles being a SUV, crossover or 4wd Pick-up. Even in Montana, my wife and I don't need an AWD car. I could easily get to work with a FWD car for all but a day or two every few years. We take the Michelin shod SUV, with traction control and 4wd, when we go on a highway trip in the winter. Buying an AWD car when we will likely always have an SUV or SuperCrew would needlessly cost money at the dealership and the gas pump.

I live in Alaska an have driven my FWD ford contour with no problems during the last winter, it's amazing what a set of studded tires can do. If I do happen to wake up to a foot of snow, I have a Bronco in my driveway for that :D

 

 

I've since sold my Contour and replaced it with a FWD Monte Carlo with traction control.

 

 

I'm gonna go ahead and agree that AWD is pointless for most Americans.

[goinbroke2]

"I've since sold my Contour and replaced it with a FWD Monte Carlo"

 

BOO, HISS!!! LOL!

[2b2]

came by to post my latest hypotheses

& notice I'd never voted ...fixed

so

instead of my previous S.F.E. but continuing+expanding from "minor electrics" upto full electric:

 

ELECTRIFICATIONs:

type 1 I'd like them to add my *battery-less* E-WD to ALL their current Fwd-trim models (& later RWD models)

...just add electric motor(s) to the un-driven pair of wheels & a generator that would kick-in like the 'ordinary' mechanical Awd does (only)when the petrol-wheel(s) begin to slip

type 2 Virtual-Awd Plug-Ins added to every model ASAP/as they're renewed, starting with the not-out-yet MKC.

HP estimates are based on the C-Max Energi's = 141petrol+88kw/118hp electrics=188hp total

effectively a ratio of 72.6% of combined HP (&or -71hp)

AND my fixation of using EcoBoost engines for Lincoln Hybrids

mkC______________1.5EB = 210+118 >> 238hp(C-MaxRatio)/257hp(-71hp)

.... also used for my mkEnergi "ELR-killer" ...and:

mkZ.______________same^

mkX.______________2.0EB = 280+118 >> 289/327hp

mkS/ConTAUR'ntal----either^ or:

AviaTor CD4 F-Awd.---2.3EB = 322+118 >> 320/369hp

then for RWDs (& nextgen Navi) as they come along

._________________ 2.7EB = 322+118 >> 360/425hp

._________________ 2.9EB = 380+118 >> 380/453hp

type 3 pure electrics

mkElectric

Constellation: 4-door-coupe based on Rwd Continental

 

Edited March 3, 2014 by 2b2

[md3184]

RWD- Recently heard top brass from Lincoln comment RWD could be in the planning pipeline for the third product cycle..10-15 yrs? Hard to imagine what the luxury market will look like that far down the road.

[2b2]

^ Mark, by "the third product cycle..10-15 yrs?"

do you just mean three cycles away?? & each cycle no more than 5-years??

 

 

I'm still comfortable believing those who claim the LincStang is NOW within 24 months of Job1

tho

I'm also praying ALL Lincolns will be (variously) AWD

[Footballfan]

I think that if Lincoln is to be truly relevant in the luxury car segment it has to do more than just putting a new tophat on a Ford body. They need a dedicated RWD platform. Yes it will cost money, but what is the alternative? At one time Lincoln was number one luxury brand in the US. Since that time in the late 1990s/early 2000s, they now sell about third. One has to wonder how long dealers can hold on with such a sparse lineup even considering the MKC that is coming online. New product is coming on too slowly.

 

Lincoln should develop a large RWD (with optional AWD platform) and come up with a Continental subbrand to be built in its own plant. This subbrand would build unabashedly American-looking large and bold luxury cars. There would be the Continental Sedan about 200" long, a stretched version of the Continental (Town Car) about 210" long, and a Mark IV Coupe. Cadillac has moved away from the traditional American luxury car segment and that would leave the market wide open for these types of vehicles. The current generation of Lincoln cars could move downmarket a bit to compete price and featurewise with Acura and Buick (as many perceive the Lincoln brand being anyway). Farfetched? Yes. Expensive- you bet ($4-5 Billion). But at this point, what other choice do you have?

[akirby]

Have you looked at the sales volume of large RWD luxury vehicles? Most are lucky to sell 1,000/month, and a vast majority of those are dedicated brand buyers (MB, Audi, BMW, etc.) who wouldn't think of buying a Lincoln.

 

Compare that with the Caddy SRX that sells over 7000/month or the Lexus RX which I think is even higher. Or the smaller BMW, MBs and Audis (some of which are *gasp* FWD!) that sell much better.

 

The sweet spot for volume is small to mid sized crossovers and cars (partially because of price). That's where you get volume and profits that fund the more niche vehicles.

 

What other choice does Lincoln have? Lots of them as evidenced by Audi and Lexus.

 

It's not that we wouldn't love to see some niche high performance/super luxury Lincolns, but they don't make sense for Lincoln right now.

 

And if you think people will buy a new Town Car at Audi/Lexus prices you're dreaming.

[NickF1011]

I think the best hope for seeing a dedicated Lincoln platform would be a successful launch in China. If the volume is there to support a platform, they could do it. They aren't going to force it right now though, and nor should they in my opinion while they are still working on overhauling their existing lineup.

Edited April 18, 2014 by NickF1011

[md3184]

^ Mark, by "the third product cycle..10-15 yrs?"

do you just mean three cycles away?? & each cycle no more than 5-years??

 

 

I'm still comfortable believing those who claim the LincStang is NOW within 24 months of Job1

tho

I'm also praying ALL Lincolns will be (variously) AWD

I just hear 3rd product cycle come directly from a top lincoln guy-- couple levels below Farley-- I was only speculating on how long each cycle would be. (5 years per cycle maybe?)... the first of which were in now.