RichardJensen Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I should mention that broadcasting an FM signal requires converting the digital audio data received via USB to analog, so they could conceivably provide an audio output, but don't. Probably because FM reception is almost universal, and the overall package is probably a bit less expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 For a stereo or car with USB, sure. My car does not do that. It's one cord, I plug it into my iPhone, and the audio goes through it to the headphone type input jack on my stereo. Can you do that with USB? How many cars had USB inputs in 2003? My car's an '01 with an aftermarket head that I installed. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 My car's an '01 with an aftermarket head that I installed. :shrug: Did it have an aftermarket head unit with USB in 2003? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 So, basically, what is being contrasted here is: 1) the interface that connects an iDevice to a hub/dock with audio controls, coupled with a regular 1/4" stereo out (2 connections to be made) 2) plugging in your non-iDevice to a universal (USB) charger, still using the regular stereo out and the controls on the phone/device (again, 2 connections) 3) going directly from the non-iDevice to the USB port on the car's audio system, thereby using the car audio controls (1 connection). And then there's the discussion about digital-in versus analog-in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Did it have an aftermarket head unit with USB in 2003? No, I bought the car in '08 and installed the headunit the same year. The previous owner had to have the ONE Bonneville that came with a tape deck and not a CD player, for cryin' out loud... so my recourse was this: Edited July 28, 2012 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 So, basically, what is being contrasted here is: 1) the interface that connects an iDevice to a hub/dock with audio controls, coupled with a regular 1/4" stereo out (2 connections to be made) 2) plugging in your non-iDevice to a universal (USB) charger, still using the regular stereo out and the controls on the phone/device (again, 2 connections) 3) going directly from the non-iDevice to the USB port on the car's audio system, thereby using the car audio controls (1 connection). And then there's the discussion about digital-in versus analog-in... AFAIK, the FM broadcasters I linked to are functionally equivalent to the thing sullynd linked to, except they broadcast an analog signal over FM instead of sending it through a wire. The Apple connector has the ability to send analog out, but I argue that this is a meaningless differentiator, given the ease with which digital output can be converted to analog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) (edit to remove duplicate) The Apple connector has the ability to send analog out, but I argue that this is a meaningless differentiator, given the ease with which digital output can be converted to analog. Like a CD player, basically. Edited July 28, 2012 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 The Apple connector has the ability to send analog out, but I argue that this is a meaningless differentiator, given the ease with which digital output can be converted to analog. Currently, sure (Though I'd like to see a device like you linked to from a name brand manufacturer). But in the late 90s when the current connector was designed? Was Apple supposed to assume that Pap would be happy not connecting to his car until he replaced the headunit in 08 with one that supported USB? Or would they have been better off to design it so it could work with the tape adapter he said the previous owner used? And the two connection argument is specious. I haven't plugged/unplugged the audio cable from my adapter since I bought it more than 5 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Currently, sure (Though I'd like to see a device like you linked to from a name brand manufacturer). But in the late 90s when the current connector was designed? In the late '90s, it seemed that everyone had proprietary connectors and interfaces. Only in the past 5 years or so did phone and music player manufacturers finally decide to adopt mini-USB as its standard interface. Everyone but Apple. Was Apple supposed to assume that Pap would be happy not connecting to his car until he replaced the headunit in 08 with one that supported USB? Or would they have been better off to design it so it could work with the tape adapter he said the previous owner used? If Apple were to act like they knew me, they would have had to know that I'd never own one of their products. So that much is a bit off. :P In the interest of full disclosure, though, I went straight for the headunit with the USB input mainly so I wouldn't have to switch CDs as often; instead, all of my music was/is ripped to flash drives. I almost never used an MP3 player in my car at the time. And the two connection argument is specious. I haven't plugged/unplugged the audio cable from my adapter since I bought it more than 5 years ago. The argument is less about having to frequently plug in/unplug a cable and more about a connection design that's (obstinately) behind everyone else's, despite the prevailing notion that Apple is the most innovative company out there. Edited July 28, 2012 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 AFAIK, the FM broadcasters I linked to are functionally equivalent to the thing sullynd linked to, except they broadcast an analog signal over FM instead of sending it through a wire. Slightly off topic, but I have tried a few the FM broadcasters. None of them worked worth a darn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Slightly off topic, but I have tried a few the FM broadcasters. None of them worked worth a darn. My XM unit has a built-in FM broadcaster. It works fine as long as you don't go on a nine-hour trip and expect never to have interference. Based on your experience, mine must be a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 My XM unit has a built-in FM broadcaster. It works fine as long as you don't go on a nine-hour trip and expect never to have interference. Based on your experience, mine must be a good one. I tried 2 or 3. My son tried at least that many. A couple friends had them and weren't happy either. They probably aren't all bad, but a lot of them appear to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) My XM unit has a built-in FM broadcaster. It works fine as long as you don't go on a nine-hour trip and expect never to have interference. Based on your experience, mine must be a good one. I have a funny story about this...when I first got Sirius, it was an add on unit...I was driving home from work down a local road and there was this Miata in front of me with his top down. I pull up behind him at a light, then all of a sudden I notice Howard Stern is playing over my radio! I was picking up his Sirius unit! My Sirius unit was recalled or suggested to be replaced by SiriusXM due to the FM unit being too powerful...I never replaced it since I got good reception via FM 90% of the time Edited July 29, 2012 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 Right. Apple went with a proprietary connector out of the goodness of their heart, and not out of an attempt to leverage their monopoly position for revenue enhancement. Or, Apple benefits from the freedom to control the connector to facilitate feature and design choices. Alternatively, you can do what Google does on it's devices, offer a device-specific proprietary solution for accessory connectivity in addition to a micro usb port. Not to mention ASUS, Samsung, and many other companies use proprietary cables on their tablets (all of which resemble the dock connector btw and will probably change once Apple does). So I know Apple is uniquely insidious in your world and out to fleece the customer at every opportunity and the only thing preventing people from rising up against the Apple tyranny and seeking Microsoft openness is marketing psychosis. Strange how you rail on a connection type that has survived 10 years and opened up a massive accessory industry, despite the fact that the connector is a huge gaping hole on the bottom of the device and Apple would have liked nothing more than to close that up and 'screw the consumer'. The only licensing needed to use that port is if you want 'works with iPhone' on the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Or, Apple benefits from the freedom They make money off it. That's all you need to know about it. Strange how you rail on a connection type that has survived 10 years and opened up a massive accessory industry And yet I'm not railing on about a connection type that has survived 13 years, is BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE, INDUSTRY STANDARD, ROYALTY FREE, and despite these (to Apple fans) massive drawbacks has opened up a significantly larger accessory industry: Edited July 29, 2012 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 You still have two cables!! So what if the second cable plugs into that hub thingy instead of plugging into the Apple device. I don't have two cables; I have an iPod A/V cable (Belkin, IIRC) that pulls the line out audio from my iPhone and sends it to the line in adapter that hijacks the audio feed from my Ford Sirius unt. For me, USB is only useful for that 12V to 5V cigar lighter adapter; it doesn't help me get clean audio in to my factory head unit. For getting audio into a head unit, line level audio >>>>>> speaker level audio >>>>>>>>>>> FM modulation, IMHO. I do agree with your main point, though--Apple does it for one reason: the almighty Dollar. To another pont raised elsewhere in this thread, everybody else uses micro USB on their phones because they want to sell in Europe, and the micro USB connector is a mandated standard in the EU (it wasn't that long ago that every blasted phone used its own (usually proprietary) connector). That's also why Apple sells/gives away the 30-pin to micro USB adapters in Europe--if they didn't, they wouldn't be able to sell iPhones in the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Huh? AFAIK, headphone output isn't amplified, it's line level, just like what's coming out two of the four outputs on your Apple adapter. And Bluetooth basically trumps all this as it's wireless and digital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 My XM unit has a built-in FM broadcaster. It works fine as long as you don't go on a nine-hour trip and expect never to have interference. Nine hours? Try more than 15-30 minutes. I don't know about where you live, but there's a hell of a lot of FM chatter around this part of the country; if you find a clear channel and move 20 miles (or less), you'll frequently run into a station strong enough to override an FM transmitter. It's even worse when I'm using my portable Sirius unit--its built-in FM transmitter is so lousy that Sirius (as settlement for a class-action lawsuit) sent me a free adapter that goes between the vehicle's antenna and radio... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Huh? AFAIK, headphone output isn't amplified, it's line level, just like what's coming out two of the four outputs on your Apple adapter. And Bluetooth basically trumps all this as it's wireless and digital. Headphone audio isn't line-level, it's a variable output. It's not going through much of an amp, but it is amplified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Headphone audio isn't line-level, it's a variable output. It's not going through much of an amp, but it is amplified. It's possible to do that with USB: http://www.pdaextreme.com/images/mini-usb-motorola-audio-adapter-1.jpg But basically, BlueTooth is where it's at now as far as getting audio data to the car, so I doubt we'll see the kind of USB-based charging/analog audio out solutions that are possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Nine hours? Try more than 15-30 minutes. I don't know about where you live, but there's a hell of a lot of FM chatter around this part of the country; if you find a clear channel and move 20 miles (or less), you'll frequently run into a station strong enough to override an FM transmitter. It's even worse when I'm using my portable Sirius unit--its built-in FM transmitter is so lousy that Sirius (as settlement for a class-action lawsuit) sent me a free adapter that goes between the vehicle's antenna and radio... I'm in a college town just like you, lol. When I got the XM unit, it was for Christmas. I was traveling from VA back down to GA and using the unit. Every time I hit a major metro (Richmond, Durham, Greensboro), I had to find a new clear channel. Between Greensboro and Charlotte, all the way back to Athens, I just plugged in the AUX cable and never looked back. That's where "nine hours" came from... the first road trip on which I used XM in my own car. But looking at the station list for Athens, I see that I could set my XM to 107.9 FM and be just fine. Couldn't guarantee that it would remain that way if I went out closer to metro Atlanta (we don't get any of their stations out here, interestingly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 USB still has it's benefits over Bluetooth - I much prefer USB in my Flex for instance, as it displays the artist and track info, whereas bluetooth does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) USB still has it's benefits over Bluetooth - I much prefer USB in my Flex for instance, as it displays the artist and track info, whereas bluetooth does not. Bluetooth Audio profile version 1.3+ has that capability. It's a matter of both the device and the headunit having that particular profile, however. That aside, I've heard mixed reviews about music quality over BT. Edited July 29, 2012 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 USB provides audio, video, human interface, charging, and data transfer through a single bus, simultaneously. Just like that 30 pin connector. True, it does not provide analog out, but one can argue that any device capable of receiving 4-channel analog stereo or analog video is sophisticated enough to add a single chip to convert digital signal equivalents via USB. It does not provide any of those without writing device drivers - specifically it forces any accessory to be a USB host (which is a lot more work and expense than being a simple device). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Slightly off topic, but I have tried a few the FM broadcasters. None of them worked worth a darn. I've got an older Griffin iTrip that has worked great for years. It can be set to any frequency (not just a couple, like some of the cheaper ones). I have it set to a local PBS station - it easily overpowers the station when running, and then I don't have horrible static when it's unplugged. Allegedly the current version will scan the spectrum and find the most clear channel for you. With so many cars offering iPod connectors, bluetooth, and auxiliary in, though, it's becoming less relevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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