fordmantpw Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Look at it this way - what good does it do to shut off the engine when the fob is out of range? The only advantage I see is that you don't have to turn off the vehicle when you get out. But what if the fob falls out of your pocket inside the vehicle? You get out and it stays unlocked and keeps running. That's not good. All of those potential problems just so the driver doesn't have to turn off the vehicle. Not a good tradeoff IMO. Agreed! Surprise, surprise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Agreed! Surprise, surprise! Shocking....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 ...All of those potential problems just so the driver doesn't have to ...Not a good tradeoff IMO. TY! I thought there must be a concise way of stating my resistance to the whole key-replacement-gizmo fad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 TY! I thought there must be a concise way of stating my resistance to the whole key-replacement-gizmo fad Oh I'm totally in favor of IA and push button start. I just don't think it's necessary to have it shut off the vehicle when you go out of range. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) This is a safety issue... a big one. What if the key fob battery dies on the freeway? I had a real life example but i can't find the article. The ID badges used to get into the Ford plant require no batteries. I'm not sure whats in them, but I assume its RFID. So then the issue is battery, or alternator failure in your vehicle. Is that already not a safety issue. If you lose a battery on the highway the alternator will supply power, but if the alternator dies so does your car. It could be a safety issue already. But as a Manager at OHAP once told me in relation to just in time parts shipment and stock shortages. "Why would you not take advantage of the benefits, in fear of potential problems that rarely and may never occur." Oh I'm totally in favor of IA and push button start. I just don't think it's necessary to have it shut off the vehicle when you go out of range. Is that not the point of a key, is that not it's purpose? Are you angry, and is it a safety issue that your car turns off currently when you separate the traditional mechanical keys from it. The range could be set to whatever the limits of your hardware. 5 or 10' if you prefer as long as the system is capable. The distance is less important then the manner in which it operates.Computer directives can dictate the range within the hardware capabilities. If the required permissives are not satisfied, then functions will be disabled. I work in an engine room with twin 2,500HP computerized Rolls Royce engines, the engines won't start unless default permissives are met, these permissives are based on sensor readings for lube oil, cooling water, and other critical engine systems.These sensors read anything from flow, pressure, temperature, and movement, and are set to the manufacturers specs for optimum performance. The prospects for a system like I have described are more then possible, and the tech can be developed for less then the cost that Ford pisses away on concept vehicles that will never see production. Edited September 2, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Is that not the point of a key, is that not it's purpose? Are you angry, and is it a safety issue that your car turns off currently when you separate the traditional mechanical keys from it. The point of a key is to unlock the vehicle and unlock the steering and starter. I didn't say it was a safety issue as long as the vehicle keeps running when out of range. But you'd still need a way to stop and start the vehicle manually when the fob is in the car. You wouldn't want to automatically start the vehicle when the fob comes in range either - that would be unnecessary in some cases and could be dangerous if you're doing maintenance. Could it be done with proper safety protocols? Sure. Is it worth it? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) The point of a key is to unlock the vehicle and unlock the steering and starter. I didn't say it was a safety issue as long as the vehicle keeps running when out of range. But you'd still need a way to stop and start the vehicle manually when the fob is in the car. You wouldn't want to automatically start the vehicle when the fob comes in range either - that would be unnecessary in some cases and could be dangerous if you're doing maintenance. Could it be done with proper safety protocols? Sure. Is it worth it? Nope. Right, a push button on the dash would start the vehicle manually. Hence the title of this thread. Does your vehicle stay running currently if the mechanical key is any distance from it? Nope! How bout the scratches on the column of your interior from jabbing at the ignition in the dark, or having to buy keyhole protectors to protect your paint on the door of your $30K vehicle, or having to instal illumination to help reduce this problem. This system would eliminate these problems also. No mechanical key to put into the door, or column. I don't know if you worry about resale value or not, but I do? Is it worth it? If not to increase sales volume, then to increase demand. Because of the popularity of this feature, and the publicity it's receiving, yes it is worth it. A better question is, is Ford whiling to continue building vehicles people want. Edited September 2, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Try to focus........I fully support push button start. I think it should be available on all vehicles (but not standard on all vehicles). What I DON'T agree with is automatically shutting it off when you leave the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 (edited) Why would you not want the vehicle to shut off when the key leaves it? Is that not how it works now? If you have to run back in the house cause you forgot something and want to leave your car running then nothing would change. You leave the key in the car just like you do now. The difference is that you don't have to keep it installed in the mechanical ignition. It also needs to be available on entry level models. Where Ford screwed up with the nav systems was by only offering this convenience on the loaded trim levels of the high end vehicles. While Toyo was offering them on even their entry level sub-compacts. In just a few years there will be no market for built in nav systems. There are free nav apps on all smart phones. Phone connectivity is more important. Edited September 3, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Why would you not want the vehicle to shut off when the key leaves it? Is that not how it works now? If you have to run back in the house cause you forgot something and want to leave your car running then nothing would change. You leave the key in the car just like you do now. The difference is that you don't have to keep it installed in the mechanical ignition. Now I can choose whether to leave the car running or turn it off. It depends on what I'm doing. The point of using the IA fob is that you don't have to take it out of your pocket. The problem is what I described earlier - what if the fob falls out of your pocket and stays in the car? You go inside, meanwhile the car is still running and the doors are unlocked. You have to account for unexpected behavior when you automate something. What's the problem with pushing the button to turn the vehicle off and on as needed with auto lock and unlock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 (edited) Having a push button fob would likely increase the cost of the tech & parts to Ford, plus the possibility of power failure as you described. With a simple RFID recognition the hardware would be cheaper, and less likely to fail. You don't need a fob. If you want a fob, go buy a furby kirby, that's backwards thinking. Like grown people not knowing when to give up their security blanket. It's cute when your a kid, but not necessary for grown people. If the door automatically unlocks once you are with in range, then all you have to do is squeeze the handle to open the door without fumbling for a fob. The system already exists; http://sell.bizrice....mote-start.html Edited September 3, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Having a push button fob would likely increase the cost of the tech & parts to Ford, plus the possibility of power failure as you described. With a simple RFID recognition the hardware would be cheaper, and less likely to fail. You don't need a fob. If you want a fob, go buy a furby kirby, that's backwards thinking. Like grown people not knowing when to give up their security blanket. It's cute when your a kid, but not necessary for grown people. If the door automatically unlocks once you are with in range, then all you have to do is squeeze the handle to open the door without fumbling for a fob. You don't pay attention, do you? I think the current IA fob and push button works fine and should be optional on all vehicles. I just don't think it should automatically start or stop the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 (edited) You don't pay attention, do you? I think the current IA fob and push button works fine and should be optional on all vehicles. I just don't think it should automatically start or stop the engine. I do pay attention, and find it humorous that you would attempt to be condescending to me. ROTFLMAO I don't agree that the current system is fine. Instead of riding behind the curve it's time to be proactive and grow some balls. Your idea of keeping a fob is creating an issue. No fob, no key charging problems. RFID is the solution to the problem the fob creates. Did you view the link I posted, or is it easier to persist that you are correct without investigating alternate possibilities? Oops, did I just call you lazy and obstinate, sorry if that came off abrasive :~) I want my Ford to be innovative, not just "fine"! You can tell that by looking at the Fusion I own, very little stock, and one of the badest family sedans on the road. Lambo doors, blue carbon fiber interior, projection headlamps, Mild aftermarket spoiler, roof spoiler, retro fitted factory fog lamps, Clear Marker lights. color keyed rain gaurds, in dash nav with iPod connectivity, 2000W Amps & Subs, and much much more. I know whats hot, and the current ignition systems are not. Here is a link to my ride; http://www.blueovalf...; +ford +fusion Edited September 3, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Having a push button fob would likely increase the cost of the tech & parts to Ford, plus the possibility of power failure as you described. With a simple RFID recognition the hardware would be cheaper, and less likely to fail. You don't need a fob. If you want a fob, go buy a furby kirby, that's backwards thinking. Like grown people not knowing when to give up their security blanket. It's cute when your a kid, but not necessary for grown people. If the door automatically unlocks once you are with in range, then all you have to do is squeeze the handle to open the door without fumbling for a fob. See - this is the part where you weren't paying attention. IA fobs don't use push buttons. They work just like the RFID system you linked to. You keep the fob in your pocket and it unlocks the door as you approach. Get in and hit the start button and you're off. Just like you described. So Ford already has the system you want - it just uses a fob instead of a RFID credit card. And RFID cards still use batteries just like the fobs. It's right there in your link - or did you not bother to read it? It says the battery should last a year. I do pay attention, and find it humorous that you would attempt to be condescending to me. ROTFLMAO I don't agree that the current system is fine. Instead of riding behind the curve it's time to be proactive and grow some balls. Your idea of keeping a fob is creating an issue. No fob, no key charging problems. RFID is the solution to the problem the fob creates. Did you view the link I posted, or is it easier to persist that you are correct without investigating alternate possibilities? Oops, did I just call you lazy and obstinate, sorry if that came off abrasive :~) Go read the link you posted and see if the RFID card has a battery that requires annual replacement. Then get back to me about who's paying attention and who isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) See - this is the part where you weren't paying attention. IA fobs don't use push buttons. They work just like the RFID system you linked to. You keep the fob in your pocket and it unlocks the door as you approach. Get in and hit the start button and you're off. Just like you described. So Ford already has the system you want - it just uses a fob instead of a RFID credit card. And RFID cards still use batteries just like the fobs. It's right there in your link - or did you not bother to read it? It says the battery should last a year. Go read the link you posted and see if the RFID card has a battery that requires annual replacement. Then get back to me about who's paying attention and who isn't. Ah, you got me. I posted hastily. OK, so what are the fob dimensions? The advantage to the credit card sized RFID key is not having to take it out of your wallet. It would be nice when you are carrying parcels to your vehicle, and not having to keep track of another device. No one is going to lose their wallet, purse, or cell phone. It simplifies life my way. Edited September 4, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Ah, you got me. I posted hastily. OK, so what are the fob dimensions? The advantage to the credit card sized RFID key is not having to take it out of your wallet. It would be nice when you are carrying parcels to your vehicle, and not having to keep track of another device. No one is going to lose their wallet, purse, or cell phone. It simplifies life my way. Most people need to carry around keys for other things. What is the added inconvenience of having a keyfob added to the keys you are already carrying anyway? Plus go back to the other functions of the fob: remote start, on-demand lock/unlock, power liftgate/trunk release, panic button -- all are far more easy to access using a fob than having to pull out your wallet and pressing a button (wouldn't these go off when you sat on it??) on the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 And I don't know about you guys, but I already have enough crap in my wallet (except money of course)...I don't need more cards to carry around in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 And I don't know about you guys, but I already have enough crap in my wallet (except money of course)...I don't need more cards to carry around in it! Sorry you ain't winning this one. With the RFID there are no buttons to sit on, and everyone has room for a credit card if they dump the footlocker card that gets used once or twice a year. What about the people who have their garage door linked to their vehicle. They push a button in their car to open the garage door, then walk in the house. No keys to look for in the dark, nothing to do but get out and walk in. The benefits outweigh the cost. Ford also already utilizes this tech to gain entrance to their facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 The benefits outweigh the cost. According to who besides you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Sorry you ain't winning this one. With the RFID there are no buttons to sit on, and everyone has room for a credit card if they dump the footlocker card that gets used once or twice a year. What about the people who have their garage door linked to their vehicle. They push a button in their car to open the garage door, then walk in the house. No keys to look for in the dark, nothing to do but get out and walk in. The benefits outweigh the cost. Ford also already utilizes this tech to gain entrance to their facilities. The benefits outweigh the cost....to you and some others (obviously not Ford or the vast majority of other automakers). The downsides seem to outweigh the benefits...to several people in this thread (and apparently most automakers.) The fact that the fob performs more functions than simply gaining access to the vehicle makes it a necessity for most owners (and a poor comparison to the plant access cards, which don't need to serve any additional purposes). Or would you rather have a fob and the key card? You obviously have to put the functions I mentioned earlier somewhere don't you?? Or would you just no longer offer those functions to customers? Edited September 4, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) The benefits outweigh the cost....to you and some others (obviously not Ford or the vast majority of other automakers). The downsides seem to outweigh the benefits...to several people in this thread (and apparently most automakers.) The fact that the fob performs more functions than simply gaining access to the vehicle makes it a necessity for most owners (and a poor comparison to the plant access cards, which don't need to serve any additional purposes). Or would you rather have a fob and the key card? You obviously have to put the functions I mentioned earlier somewhere don't you?? Or would you just no longer offer those functions to customers? I'd rather have a card that unlocks my doors, steering, and enables my push button start, and a simple phone app with Bluetooth connectivity to operate any of a fobs less frequently used functions. Oh, and as to the nay sayers, a small collection of douchebags opinion hardly represents the desires of the majority of the car buying public. In addition Ford not offering new tech is no indication of what will be offered in the future. If that were the case all Fords would still only be offered in black. That one selling point allowed GM to overtake them in sales volume once upon a time. Why continue following the curve when we know lack of innovation cost sales? Why continue withholding proven options, and advances till after the point where offering them has no impact on sales? Edited September 4, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Sorry you ain't winning this one. With the RFID there are no buttons to sit on So lets say i have an RFID card in my wallet. I can get in my car and start it if im next to it. Thats great and i think it will be coming soon. BUT... How does that help you if your kid needs to grab something out of the car? Hit the unlock button on your fob or give him your wallet. How do you remote start your vehicle if there is no remote start button on the RFID card? ... do you walk outside, start the car, then walk back inside while it warms up/cools down? RFID is great for minimalizm. However it itsn't practical for everyday use for a lot of people. If Ford would provide a key fob and a card everyone could be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) You pull out your cell phone and open your Ford control panel app, and unlock/lock, pop the hatch and remote start your vehicle VIA Bluetooth connectivity. Bluetooth is not just for audio conversation, and listening to music. It can also be utilized to turn on/off and operate functions on any compatible device. Your car may also be equipped with keyless entry, in which case you give them the code. Maybe a different code on the keypad pops the trunk, or opens the hatch. A cell phone is better because it can be password protected, an analog fob can not. Edited September 5, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) You pull out your cell phone and open your Ford control panel app, and unlock/lock, So you need a smart phone to use those functions? Yes. That's a muuuuuch better solution that a fob that costs all of a few bucks to produce. You do realize that well over half the phones out there still can't run "apps" right? Do you just tell those phone owners (many of whom are older and plenty affluent) "Sorry, you can't get remote start unless you buy this phone you probably won't understand how to use first". And what is more convenient about pulling out your phone, entering the unlock code, opening the app, and then hitting the unlock code than reaching into your pocket or purse and feeling the unlock button on the fob and pressing it without even removing the keys from where they are? Edited September 5, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 . If Ford would provide a key fob and a card everyone could be happy. Except for the accountants asking "Why provide a card too when the fob already does everything the card would?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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