Furious1Auto Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) Who under the age of 60 do you know that owns a new car that does not own a smart phone, a fob could be sold separate for those not owning a compatible device and to assist in resale to customers who don't own smart phones. The boomers are dying off, are we still going to cater to their needs in the future? An app is cheaper to create, deliver, and update then hardware. if you got locked out of your car and didn't own a smart phone, you could download the app on a friend's iPhone and unlock your doors with a changeable PIN number you chose on the day you bought your vehicle. Fobs can't be password protected, and anyone can grab them to access your vehicle. I had a 14 year old kid drive his Mom's car to my house while she was sleeping. I scared the hell out of him, but suspect he had done it again after. He was too comfortable as if he had done it allot. Her own kid stole her car. If he had to enter a PIN to unlock the doors it would never have happened. Edited September 5, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Who under the age of 60 do you know that owns a new car that does not own a smart phone A LOT of people. a fob could be sold separate for those not owning a compatible device and to assist in resale to customers who don't own smart phones. So you would still design fobs and provide them to customers anyway? Fobs can't be password protected, and anyone can grab them to access your vehicle. I had a 14 year old kid drive his Mom's car to my house while she was sleeping. I scared the hell out of him, but suspect he had done it again after. He was too comfortable as if he had done it allot. Her own kid stole her car. If he had to enter a PIN to unlock the doors it would never have happened. Oh noes!!!! Kids (and thieves) are always going to find ways to outsmart car owners. Besides, couldn't they just steal the "credit card" from their wallet and go unlock and start the car that way? You are overcomplicating something to manufacture a problem that doesn't really exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) A LOT of people. Yeah, boomers! Anyone in the following generations would pay to have the badest phone with a used ride before they sacrifice their personal comforts. We aren't talking about people that buy cheap phones, cause they likely don't have the credit or income o buy new vehicles. So you would still design fobs and provide them to customers anyway? Didn't you say Ford already has them? So then they can be sold to people who need them and either the cost be inserted into their payment, or financing, not even necessarily listed on the invoice. Be like opening a checking account. Only people who require checks purchase them, everyone else enjoys the convenience of carrying a card in their wallet Oh noes!!!! Kids (and thieves) are always going to find ways to outsmart car owners. Besides, couldn't they just steal the "credit card" from their wallet and go unlock and start the car that way? Kinda hard to get to my wallet while I am sleeping, its always next to me and not hanging on a hook near the door. Yet anything is possible. You are overcomplicating something to manufacture a problem that doesn't really exist. Not at all, actually I am simplifying the driving experience with tech that already does exists. :shades: Edited September 5, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Yeah, boomers! Anyone in the following generations would pay to have the badest phone with a used ride before they sacrifice their personal comforts. We aren't talking about people that buy cheap phones, cause they likely don't have the credit or income o buy new vehicles. So you've conducted a study to confirm this? Not everyone gives a crap about technology on their phones yet still want the conveniences offered by a newer car. Again, not everybody acts exactly like you do. Didn't you say Ford already has them? So then they can be sold to people who need them and either the cost be inserted into their payment, or financing, not even necessarily listed on the invoice. Be like opening a checking account. Only people who require checks purchase them, everyone else enjoys the convenience of carrying a card in their wallet They have them yes. And they would need to be redesigned sooner or later as technology advanced. And who the heck doesn't need checks every now and then? Granted, I've only written about 40 in the past 5 years, but they are still necessary once in awhile to most people. Kinda hard to get to my wallet while I am sleeping, its always next to me and not hanging on a hook near the door. Yet anything is possible. There you go again assuming everyone else is just like you. Not at all, actually I am simplifying the driving experience with tech that already does exists. :shades: Simplifying it for a ridiculously small subset. The rest of us really don't care about carrying around a keyfob that rarely leaves our pocket anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Yeah, boomers! Anyone in the following generations would pay to have the badest phone with a used ride before they sacrifice their personal comforts. We aren't talking about people that buy cheap phones, cause they likely don't have the credit or income o buy new vehicles. You know, there are plenty of people that think a smartphone is not a necessity, and so they don't "waste" their money on it. You can't isolate those people as customers, because there are plenty. Also, what about the folks that are provided a phone by their employer, but are prohibited from installing apps on it. But, they don't see the need to shell out $75/month for another phone, so they, in effect, don't have a smartphone. I was one of those (I am extremely tech savvy...I work in IT) until January when my employer gave us the option of choosing a Windows Phone over the crappy BB. You can't isolate that extremely large set of people either. Like Nick said, I think you are trying to create a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Would what you mention be cool? Sure, but in the big picture, I just don't see it as the proper option. Using new tech just for the sake of using new tech is not the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Except for the accountants asking "Why provide a card too when the fob already does everything the card would?" Accountants don't count. ... see what I did there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) So you've conducted a study to confirm this? Not everyone gives a crap about technology on their phones yet still want the conveniences offered by a newer car. Again, not everybody acts exactly like you do. I think you are mistaken. I am not providing my opinion so much as I am reporting a popular trend as observed from mainstream music within my culture. As far as tech, it is the old hat that is computer illiterate, and technologically handicapped. My generation and those that follow are are quite proficient. I am 36 years old and my generation is up next to replace the boomers in the auto purchasing market. They have them yes. And they would need to be redesigned sooner or later as technology advanced. And who the heck doesn't need checks every now and then? Granted, I've only written about 40 in the past 5 years, but they are still necessary once in awhile to most people. I still don't see it necessary to have a fob at all, it is you that insists and so I attempted to incorporate your demands into my much simpler plan. The only time a fob might be necessary is if the customer wanted remote start. Remote start is an option, and offered only a small percentage of the vehicles produced. So then if you demand a fob, then sell it only to those who demand remote start, and use a standard fob that is offered on several models. This way their is no additional costs beyond what Ford already has budgeted. With the card key all the doors unlock, steering unlocks, and ignition system enabled. All you need from that point is to push electronic buttons on the door handles and trunk to open them, and a button on the dash to start/stop your engine. There you go again assuming everyone else is just like you. And again I am not citing my opinion as much as I am reporting a popular trend that will increase demand for Ford products within the current and future car buying market. Simplifying it for a ridiculously small subset. The rest of us really don't care about carrying around a keyfob that rarely leaves our pocket anyway. And you seriously made the assertion that I was implying that I represent the views of the majority. Seriously? Do some test marketing and see how big the market is. The size of the market determines which of us is right or wrong, not which of us is more domineering. I should have added the poll earlier, this thread has already had more then 1,000 views. You know, there are plenty of people that think a smartphone is not a necessity, and so they don't "waste" their money on it. You can't isolate those people as customers, because there are plenty. Also, what about the folks that are provided a phone by their employer, but are prohibited from installing apps on it. But, they don't see the need to shell out $75/month for another phone, so they, in effect, don't have a smartphone. I was one of those (I am extremely tech savvy...I work in IT) until January when my employer gave us the option of choosing a Windows Phone over the crappy BB. You can't isolate that extremely large set of people either. Like Nick said, I think you are trying to create a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Would what you mention be cool? Sure, but in the big picture, I just don't see it as the proper option. Using new tech just for the sake of using new tech is not the right thing to do. I resisted smart phones too, but out of principle and because of the imposition of additional fees. However the major carriers are forcing the switch by limiting options on phones without data packages, and tacking these fees on nearly every phone. The litmus test for my argument is the number of people switching to data packages either by choice, or by force due to the lack of options on basic phones. Accountants don't count. ... see what I did there? Yes you made a humorously clever play on words that doesn't apply to the subject matter, in order to make yourself appear witty. If people listen to you that haven't read the rest of this thread they likely would form uneducated, and counter productive opinions :kissass: Edited September 7, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 And again I am not citing my opinion as much as I am reporting a popular trend that will increase demand for Ford products within the current and future car buying market. If it was as popular a trend as you are asserting, somebody would be doing what you proposed already. They aren't. I'm done here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Nope, because the people who make product decisions at Ford are not part of the emerging market. They are from a different background and culture. Sort of like the disconnect between politicians, and their constituents. When you grow up in a privileged household You have no clue what is important to average people. That being said the majority of the customers at ford are not from a privileged background, while many of the hierarchy in management are. If you like I will begin populating a list of the popular songs where Push button start is mentioned? It'll take a while because there are allot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 When did I say vehicles shouldn't have push button start? My Edge has push button start. I love it. I wouldn't mind if all cars had it. This topic has evolved into a stupid discussion about key fobs and useless credit card thingies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I guess Ford should also be creating seats that cater to droopy pants and seats that fully recline for that "cool" driving position and trunks that are prewired for 24" subwoofers and wheel wells that will hold 30" wheels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 I guess Ford should also be creating seats that cater to droopy pants and seats that fully recline for that "cool" driving position and trunks that are prewired for 24" subwoofers and wheel wells that will hold 30" wheels? Like it or not these droopy pants kids grow to adults with purchasing power, and they decide what they are whiling to buy not us. Sure your parents didn't like long haired hippies either. Such it the cycle of life, and the maturing of rebellious teens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Like it or not these droopy pants kids grow to adults with purchasing power I wouldn't bet on it in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) I wouldn't bet on it in most cases. I disagree, but to what extent their influence has is the question. Ford is already offering bigger rims, better stereos, and more bling (cough*) chrome. It makes me nutz to see '80s model big body cars with lift kits, and oversized rims. Meats with Crager rims is what you do to cars like that. Do these people care what we think? No, the more we try to tell them, the harder they will resist. It is what it is, instead of trying to change their minds it is better to capitalize on the trends without major investments, and without going too extreme. Nick your in denial, their influence has already seeped into the mainstream. Edited September 7, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I disagree, but to what extent their influence has is the question. Ford is already offering bigger rims, better stereos, and more bling (cough*) chrome. It makes me nutz to see '80s model big body cars with lift kits, and oversized rims. Meats with Crager rims is what you do to cars like that. Do these people care what we think? No, the more we try to tell them, the harder they will resist. It is what it is, instead of trying to change their minds it is better to capitalize on the trends without major investments, and without going to extreme. Nick your in denile, their influence has already seeped into the mainstream. Denial? I have an Edge with 22" wheels, push button start, and a built-in subwoofer. Yes. Denial indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Denial? I have an Edge with 22" wheels, push button start, and a built-in subwoofer. Yes. Denial indeed. Yes, that is a serious case of denial. Your driving a product of their influence, and still make the statement that their influence will have no impact on future offerings. Or more accurately that you wouldn't bet on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Yes, that is a serious case of denial. Your driving a product of their influence, and still make the statement that their influence will have no impact on future offerings. Or more accurately that you wouldn't bet on it. I said I wouldn't bet on many of them having any purchasing power, not that they wouldn't have any influence on anything. The influence comes from people who do have purchasing power (such as myself) wanting to appear "hip". By the time most trendsetters actually have any purchasing power, the trends have changed again. Edited September 7, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) I said I wouldn't bet on many of them having any purchasing power, not that they wouldn't have any influence on anything. The influence comes from people who do have purchasing power (such as myself) wanting to appear "hip". By the time most trendsetters actually have any purchasing power, the trends have changed again. So your a boomer? I'm just telling you man, as much as you don't want my opinion, and I don't want to hear their's, the next generation is going to be making the decisions in time. Features like this are not only like candy to them, they will also be appreciated by me when I am trying to appear hip (cough*) fly, or whatever they will call it then. The only other use I have for a fob is to use the panic alarm to find my car when I park my in a crowded parking lot. :flexing: But they have phone apps for that now too. Edited September 7, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) So your a boomer? Errr...not quite. I'm just telling you man, as much as you don't want my opinion, and I don't want to hear their's, the next generation is going to be making the decisions in time. Features like this are not only like candy to them, they will also be appreciated by me when I am trying to appear hip (cough*) fly, or whatever they will call it then. The only other use I have for a fob is to use the panic alarm to find my car when I park my in a crowded parking lot. :flexing: But they have phone apps for that now too. I use my fob every day. It's simpler than a smart phone and cheaper -- something even these "candy" loving kids can appreciate (hell, I own most of the same gadgets they crave), and something they'll continue to appreciate as they are saddled with more and more debt and less and less ability to pay for unnecessary gadgets. Your proposed idea simply just doesn't add enough added value in my opinion -- and since there aren't any automakers doing it, it's obviously their opinion at present also. Edited September 7, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Errr...not quite. Your 41 and you used the work hip? You may be hip by appearance, but that is all. I use my fob every day. It's simpler than a smart phone and cheaper -- something even these "candy" loving kids can appreciate (hell, I own most of the same gadgets they crave), and something they'll continue to appreciate as they are saddled with more and more debt and less and less ability to pay for unnecessary gadgets. Your proposed idea simply just doesn't add enough added value in my opinion -- and since there aren't any automakers doing it, it's obviously their opinion at present also. You use your fob every day because that is what your vehicle is equipped with. A key with a fob integrated into it. If you had an RFID key then that is what you would use everyday, only then you would appreciate the convenience. What will likely happen is some transplant automaker will make it a standard, and while they continue improving quality, and begin selling performance vehicles (Cough* ) the domestics will one day look away from the rear view mirror where they use to see this automaker, and realize if they hadn't become complacent that this automaker wouldn't be riding beside them and in position to take the lead. History repeats itself if it is allowed. The simple truth is that to continually sell vehicles people want, you have to continually build the vehicles people want to buy. Edited September 7, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 You use your fob every day because that is what your vehicle is equipped with. A key with a fob integrated into it. If you had an RFID key then that is what you would use everyday, only then you would appreciate the convenience. You obviously have no idea how Intelligent Access works. You don't have to touch the fob or the key. Ever. It works EXACTLY like the RFID card you're proposing. EXACTLY. Put it on your keyring and forget about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 The phrase you are looking for is "You're". That's called a contraction. It's short for "You are". i.e "You are" 41, not "Your 41". "You are" a boomer, not "your a boomer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Damn Nick, you're 41? Honestly Furious1auto, If this trend was taking off (ie people are askng for it) a company would be implementing it. You do realize international, multibillion dollar corporations do market research right? If the research shows there isn't enough interest in the RFID over IA then they won't go the RFID route. It truly is that simple. If people do show serious interest in the idea then you will see it in the future. "people in the know" have been predicting mass adoption of RFID in phones for about three years now. It hasn't happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) The advantage to RFID is the size of the key. It is not the card that would activate the vehicles functions, it is the chip imbedded in the card. Not to go crazy but that chip could be implanted under a persons skin in a microderm procedure and no key card or fob would be needed. No one would do that, and definitely not for a vehicle they will likely own less then 5 years, However it is possible. How bout batteryless for whatever device used. There are flashlights that Instead use Faraday's Principle of Magnetic Induction. just shaking it recharges the flashlights. It's also cheap tech because you can buy them all over the net for $5. With the amount of electricity that is required to send a signal it is more then feasible. Same tech is used on some watches. Aston Martin's fob is integrated into a high quality wrist watch sporting their logo. I am assuming that he is in his early 40's based on his first vehicle. It was an '87, and you have to be at least 16 in most states to be legal to drive. Edited September 9, 2012 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Like it or not these droopy pants kids grow to adults with purchasing power, ... Really? How many? Those droopy pant people need to get jobs first. I don't see too many in doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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