mackinaw Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 From today's Auto News Europe: "GHENT, Belgium - A union boss at Ford Motor Co.'s factory in Genk, Belgium, said he failed to win assurances about the plant's future at a meeting with the automaker's European management. Ford is looking at ways to deal with excess production capacity in Europe where it expects to lose more than $1 billion this year as new-car sales slump amid the region's economic woes. The Genk factory, which builds the Mondeo midsized car and S-Max and Galaxy minivans, is a potential candidate for closure, the Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday, citing a person familiar with the matter. "We didn't receive any reassurances on the future of the Genk plant, " Rohnny Champagne, a spokesman for Genk's ABVV union, told Automotive News Europe. "Mr. Odell told us that he could not give any guarantees. He also explained he received a lot of comparable requests from unions in the other European production facilities and gave them the same answer. " Champagne said he expects production of the new Mondeo to begin in Genk next October after a six-month delay, a conclusion reached by union officials from a presentation Ford gave to union officials in Cologne. Ford would not comment on rumors that production of the new S-Max and Galaxy will be delayed until 2014, he said." Article here: http://europe.autone...tory-union-says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 According to the German version of the WSJ one of the reason Genk is near the chopping block is Belgian unions are not as strong as German or English. Beside Modeo, I don't know what else is made at Genk. If they did close Genk, there should be enough volume from the other plants making Moneo/Fusion to cover the EU demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 According to the German version of the WSJ one of the reason Genk is near the chopping block is Belgian unions are not as strong as German or English. Beside Modeo, I don't know what else is made at Genk. If they did close Genk, there should be enough volume from the other plants making Moneo/Fusion to cover the EU demand. They would have to move the volume to somewhere else in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Right. Because Europe is like that. The exact same car, manufactured in the US, wouldn't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Right. Because Europe is like that. The exact same car, manufactured in the US, wouldn't be. Genk supplies more than just the traditional markets in Europe. And then we have to discuss where S-Max and Galaxy would go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 LS Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Genk supplies more than just the traditional markets in Europe. And then we have to discuss where S-Max and Galaxy would go. They could move it to Romania. Or, split between Romainia (for EU) and China (APA and RoW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 They could move it to Romania. Or, split between Romainia (for EU) and China (APA and RoW). Romania is already getting another sub-compact vehicle (probably EcoSport or Courier) so i dont know if they can afford the space. In June, Genk supplied vehicles sold around 15,000 units. If they added that production to say Flat Rock, how could Flat Rock expand if they needed to boost NA production...or in the future Euro production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Right now the problem in Europe is that there is too much capacity. Not just for today, but for years beyond. Given the slack in Ford's plants alone they could increase utilization of the remaining plants long term if Genk is shuttered. And still have excess capacity to spare. No need to bring in product from the US, Asia, or South America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I have doubts that Ford could flex CD cars into Cologne along side the fiesta. I personally expecting the new transit Courier and the fiesta replacement to be built along side the B-max in Romania. with the Focus and fiesta running full tilt in German plants. with the MPVs ( C-max and kuga and TC) remaining in Spain. I could see both the Galaxy and S-max being moved to Canada with the Mondeo being built in Mexico or AAI. I could also see the galaxy being moved to Spain and the S-max being replaced by the Edge. If the Mondeo is moved to North America there would be No excuse for not sell the hatch and The wagon in the US. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) Romania is already getting another sub-compact vehicle (probably EcoSport or Courier) so i dont know if they can afford the space. In June, Genk supplied vehicles sold around 15,000 units. If they added that production to say Flat Rock, how could Flat Rock expand if they needed to boost NA production...or in the future Euro production? Ford NA could relocate Mustang and devote Flat Rock entirely to Fusion/Mondeo and whatever products the CAW loses... Flat Rock plus Hermosillo would see full coverage of the Americas and potentially Western Europe's needs as well... Ford APA want's its next gen large car built there, be it Falcon-Taurus-Mondeo-Fusion...no more sourcing from FoE. Edited September 14, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 We know Genk makes Mondeo, S-Max and Galaxy. Any one know the volume of each ? Right now the problem in Europe is that there is too much capacity. Not just for today, but for years beyond. Given the slack in Ford's plants alone they could increase utilization of the remaining plants long term if Genk is shuttered. And still have excess capacity to spare. No need to bring in product from the US, Asia, or South America. Very well said. At least one plant in EU is going to close. Maybe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 ...Ford NA could relocate Mustang and devote Flat Rock entirely to Fusion/Mondeo and whatever products the CAW loses... Move Mustang to Avon Lake?? Not much going on over there..... :poke: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I think part of FordEus problem is that for almost all this year Romania was producing nothing (save engines)...but yet paying its employees. That also shows in its 67% capacity. Since that plant is going strong now, Im betting the capacity is much stronger. In other words, I think only one plant could close. If Genk closes, they will have to separate S-Max and Galaxy production from Mondeo due to their volume. We know Genk makes Mondeo, S-Max and Galaxy. Any one know the volume of each ? Very well said. At least one plant in EU is going to close. Maybe more. As i mentioned up above, sales of Genk produced vehicles (both direct and kits) were around 15k for June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 (edited) Move Mustang to Avon Lake?? Not much going on over there..... :poke: I'm not sure where Mustang could move to but the main thrust of my post was to show that Canadian production could be accommodated in existing US plants, even engine production could be taken from Canada and returned to a US plant...... Edited September 15, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I'm not sure where Mustang could move to but the main thrust of my post was to show that Canadian production could be accommodated in existing US plants, even engine production could be taken from Canada and returned to a US plant...... Monday midnight will probably result in a CAW strike against Ford GM and Chrysler. If it gets nasty, maybe Oakville might not get the tooling for the next Flex/MKT and Edge/MKX? After over 100 years in Canada (1908), that would be sad, but that nice lakefront acreage could be sold for condos and such. I hope not, but the CAW (aka Close Another Workplace) has hard choices to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 (edited) Monday midnight will probably result in a CAW strike against Ford GM and Chrysler. If it gets nasty, maybe Oakville might not get the tooling for the next Flex/MKT and Edge/MKX? After over 100 years in Canada (1908), that would be sad, but that nice lakefront acreage could be sold for condos and such. I hope not, but the CAW (aka Close Another Workplace) has hard choices to make. It's sad Ed, such a long heritage there for Canadian Auto Workers making great vehicles and on reflection, my last post sounded a a little nasty when all I meant was a clinical analysis of what could be done.. I hope Ford takes a measured view and achieves a similar outcome with the CAW as they did with the UAW in so far as fixed costs like higher wages became more variable by using a lower rate supplemented by regular production bonuses. In any case, I'm hopeful that calm heads prevail an a viable solution is found On topic, Could another production line be added at one of the German plants or even Valencia to include the CD4s? Edited September 15, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 It's sad Ed, such a long heritage there for Canadian Auto Workers making great vehicles and on reflection, my last post sounded a a little nasty when all I meant was a clinical analysis of what could be done.. I hope Ford takes a measured view and achieves a similar outcome with the CAW as they did with the UAW in so far as fixed costs like higher wages became more variable by using a lower rate supplemented by regular production bonuses. In any case, I'm hopeful that calm heads prevail an a viable solution is found On topic, Could another production line be added at one of the German plants or even Valencia to include the CD4s? Those complexes are already pretty big, there might not be room. There is another possible answer. They could shut down Genk for now, moth ball it, and bring it back online once the market is back in 4-6 years. Until then, maybe try and squeeze Mondeo into the Focus plant (it should be flex) and put S-Max and Galaxy into Oakville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) Those complexes are already pretty big, there might not be room. There is another possible answer. They could shut down Genk for now, moth ball it, and bring it back online once the market is back in 4-6 years. Until then, maybe try and squeeze Mondeo into the Focus plant (it should be flex) and put S-Max and Galaxy into Oakville. Or could Ford temporary mothball Genk as you say and Export Mondeo, S-Max and Galaxy from Flat Rock,Hermosillo would be the ace in the hole to balance out any short fall in Fusion production for the USA? Would the importation of what amounts to minor players from outside Europe be more beneficial to Ford by, 1) giving valuable production volume and exports to Ford NA plants 2) eliminate excess production capacity and personnel for Ford Europe Edited September 16, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Hermosillo would be the ace in the hole to balance out any short fall in Fusion production for the USA? As I understand it, Hermosillo has been running, essentially, at capacity pretty much since the Fusion first rolled off the line. That doesn't exactly make it a prime candidate for picking up any slack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) As I understand it, Hermosillo has been running, essentially, at capacity pretty much since the Fusion first rolled off the line. That doesn't exactly make it a prime candidate for picking up any slack. Ah, go back a step.Once Flat rock comes on line, the demand on Hermosillo reduces but as I said earlier if the whole of FR was given over to CD4 then there would be space to do some US Fusion as well as exports of Mondeo. S-max and Galaxy to Europe but we're getting ahead of ourselves...Mustang is not moving and no word on Genk so all conjecture but still interesting to speculate on possibilities Edited September 16, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 They could shut down Genk for now, moth ball it, and bring it back online once the market is back in 4-6 years. Dream on, dreamer ! t has been pointed out in other publications that Ford has not had a significant presence in the EU midsize market in many years. Should they just throw in the towel and leave that market space to Honda, Toyota and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds91776 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Honda and Toyota are not the major players in the mid-size market in Europe. Not at all. The major players are VW, Ford, Opel-Vauxhall, Renault, Citroen, and Peugeot. Fiat doesn't even have an entry in that class and Seat, Skoda, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, etc....either are not present in the midsize market in Europe or are only niche players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Once Flat rock comes on line, the demand on Hermosillo reduces but as I said earlier if the whole of FR was given over to CD4 then there would be space to do some US Fusion as well as exports of Mondeo. That makes sense--as I was reading it, it looked like you were saying Flat Rock would only be producing those vehicles. My mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Ah, go back a step. Once Flat rock comes on line, the demand on Hermosillo reduces but as I said earlier if the whole of FR was given over to CD4 then there would be space to do some US Fusion as well as exports of Mondeo. S-max and Galaxy to Europe but we're getting ahead of ourselves...Mustang is not moving and no word on Genk so all conjecture but still interesting to speculate on possibilities Hermosillo was recently expanded yet again. Im guessing its still at capacity though for now. Ford wants a 50% rise in sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Dream on, dreamer ! t has been pointed out in other publications that Ford has not had a significant presence in the EU midsize market in many years. Should they just throw in the towel and leave that market space to Honda, Toyota and others. Honda? Honda?!!!!!! Honda sells as many Accords in Europe in a year as Ford does in a month! Avensis doesn't sell all that well either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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