Ford reviewing operations like Jaguar

[NLPRacing]

Link

 

Maybe that Autoweek report saying Hyundai wanted Jaguar wasn't that far off...

[igor]

Anyone knows anything about this Kenneth Leet guy?

 

Igor

[Footballfan]

I definitely fell that Jaguar is a drag on Ford's core operations. But I would go a step further: drop Mercury and perhaps Lincoln as well.

 

Before you attack me, read my logic. What has Mercury become other than a trim package on a Ford? What sheet metal differences are there between a Ford and a Mercury? Replace Mercury with AMERICAN MADE Mazdas. In fact, it would behoove Ford to merge completely with Mazda. This would give Linconln-Mazda dealers two distinct line of cars to sell. Putting Mazda in Lincoln-Mercury outlets could easily double the brand's sales. The money that is wasted marketing Mercury could be poured into the FOrd brand.

 

Regarding Lincoln, can you really have a strong luxury division with a rebadged Expedition, F-150 and Edge, and two sedans? Develop a rear-wheel-drive platform for the brand with distinctive styling, or drop the brand. American-made Volvos could take the place of Lincoln since they are now chasing the same demographic anyway. Once again, marketing dollars could be spent to enhance the Volvo brand.

 

Dropping Mercury and/or Lincoln would give Ford three distinct brands with different styling, a very targeted demographic, as well as keep Americans employed and plants open.

 

Food for thought.

[silvrsvt]

I definitely fell that Jaguar is a drag on Ford's core operations. But I would go a step further: drop Mercury and perhaps Lincoln as well.

 

Before you attack me, read my logic. What has Mercury become other than a trim package on a Ford? What sheet metal differences are there between a Ford and a Mercury? Replace Mercury with AMERICAN MADE Mazdas. In fact, it would behoove Ford to merge completely with Mazda. This would give Linconln-Mazda dealers two distinct line of cars to sell. Putting Mazda in Lincoln-Mercury outlets could easily double the brand's sales. The money that is wasted marketing Mercury could be poured into the FOrd brand.

 

Regarding Lincoln, can you really have a strong luxury division with a rebadged Expedition, F-150 and Edge, and two sedans? Develop a rear-wheel-drive platform for the brand with distinctive styling, or drop the brand. American-made Volvos could take the place of Lincoln since they are now chasing the same demographic anyway. Once again, marketing dollars could be spent to enhance the Volvo brand.

 

Dropping Mercury and/or Lincoln would give Ford three distinct brands with different styling, a very targeted demographic, as well as keep Americans employed and plants open.

 

Food for thought.

 

The thing is that if you drop both Mercury and Lincoln, Ford is automatically losing market share that in all likelyhood wouldnt be gained by building Americanized Mazdas or Volvos. The primary reason people buy Mazda or Volvo is because they AREN"T a Ford branded product.

 

 

The real problem with both Mercury (which has been nothing but rebadged Fords for the past 50 years or so) and Lincoln, is that for the past 5-7 years, they had no true direction to go in. It seems like the management at Ford has finally figured out what they want to do with the brands, which in the case of Mercury is to Appeal to Women and Import Buyers, who want something more then what a similar Ford model offers, or at least think they are getting more. I know when I look at a Milan, I think of a VW Jetta when I see it, which is a good thing IMO. Lincoln is a bit more nebilous to me at least, but from what I read hear they are finally getting their act together and trying to move away from the blue-blood buyer that typically drove the coffin on wheels...a Town Car. Both brands have sufffered worse then Ford because of the lack of product from 2000-2005, when the 500 then Fusion came out.

 

I think Lincoln will do fine and it shouldnt chase Caddy upmarket. If I want a "real" Luxury car, I'd rather get a Jag, since it has more pashe about it then a Lincoln ever would and I'd still be supporting Ford. Volvo isn't a true luxury brand, its more of a premium type product that appeals to yuppies or what not. It doesnt need to compete with BMW or Mecerdes.

[one2gamble]

Hyundai wont be able to utilize Jaguar at all. The brand will die if it falls into their hands.

 

Jaguar owners have a hard enough time knowing its owned by Ford...they wont buy a Hyundai jag.

[wescoent]

The thing is that if you drop both Mercury and Lincoln, Ford is automatically losing market share that in all likelyhood wouldnt be gained by building Americanized Mazdas or Volvos. The primary reason people buy Mazda or Volvo is because they AREN"T a Ford branded product.

The real problem with both Mercury (which has been nothing but rebadged Fords for the past 50 years or so) and Lincoln, is that for the past 5-7 years, they had no true direction to go in. It seems like the management at Ford has finally figured out what they want to do with the brands, which in the case of Mercury is to Appeal to Women and Import Buyers, who want something more then what a similar Ford model offers, or at least think they are getting more. I know when I look at a Milan, I think of a VW Jetta when I see it, which is a good thing IMO. Lincoln is a bit more nebilous to me at least, but from what I read hear they are finally getting their act together and trying to move away from the blue-blood buyer that typically drove the coffin on wheels...a Town Car. Both brands have sufffered worse then Ford because of the lack of product from 2000-2005, when the 500 then Fusion came out.

 

I think Lincoln will do fine and it shouldnt chase Caddy upmarket. If I want a "real" Luxury car, I'd rather get a Jag, since it has more pashe about it then a Lincoln ever would and I'd still be supporting Ford. Volvo isn't a true luxury brand, its more of a premium type product that appeals to yuppies or what not. It doesnt need to compete with BMW or Mecerdes.

 

Agreed. Any problems at Lincoln-Mercury are due to a lack of product. The Grand Marquis and Montego are down this month from their steroid-induced sales frenzy last July. Month to month, Montego sales are flat, and that hole is getting plugged next spring with the advent of the much improved 2008 Montego. The main problem is the ending of Sable production (which the Milan is slaughtering in sales), and the slow death of the Grand Marquis.

 

Lincoln has the Zephyr, and that's pretty much its only relevant product at the moment. The Navigator is getting hammered by gas prices and the imminent release of an all-new model. The LS and Aviator are dead, and the Town Car is dying a slow death. The release of the MKX and Navigator this fall should stem the tide quite a bit.

 

And the problems at LM are nothing compared to Jaguar. Their volume sellers, the S-Type and X-Type, have completely fallen off the radar of luxury buyers. The XJ suffers from ancient styling, while the XK is doing great, given how low-volume it is. Jaguar doesn't have any fundamental lineup problems, aside from the fact their products are ANCIENT, and Jaguar has very high fixed costs that they cannot overcome without at least one volume seller. The next S-Type cannot come soon enough, and I'm absolutely convinced a competant, C1 derived X-Type would be a hot seller with the right styling, interior, and drivetrain.

[NLPRacing]

Hyundai wont be able to utilize Jaguar at all. The brand will die if it falls into their hands.

 

Jaguar owners have a hard enough time knowing its owned by Ford...they wont buy a Hyundai jag.

 

I think that makes the best argument for Hyundai buying Jaguar. If Hyundai screws them up worse than Ford, then Ford won't have to compete with a Jaguar/Hyundai. Could you imagine a Jaguar X-Type bases on a Sonata...too funny!

 

I think Volvo & Lincoln could compete with BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Cadillac, etc. if they were allowed to develop some real product. But Ford was always too worried about cannibalizing Jaguar sales. If they get rid of Jaguar, they can allow Volvo & Lincoln to go upscale and actual start to compete. If done properly, Volvo could easily take sales away from Audi, BMW & Mercedes and Lincoln could easily take away sales from Cadillac & Lexus. Only thing stopping them now is Jaguar. Keep Volvo & Land Rover at the same dealer and kick out Jaguar. I think the time has come.

[2005Explorer]

Ford does not need Jaguar. If they get a good offer...dump it!!! They can use the money other places to improve their more successful product lines. On the luxury side they still have Lincoln, Volvo, Land Rover and Aston Martin. I almost think Aston could be sold as well since I doubt they add much to the bottom line and it has to be a lot of money invested for not much return. Of course, I am no expert on that. Does Aston Martin make a profit for Ford? If not, they should go down the road for Ford.

 

Ford

Mercury

Lincoln

Mazda

Volvo

Land Rover

 

That seems like the best brand portfolio for Ford at this time. Mazda and Volvo contribute a lot to other product lines, have great engineers and good products. Land Rover is doing well and will continue to since it is not effected like the mass brand SUV's are when it comes to fuel prices. When people buy a Land Rover they generally have the money to put fuel in it.

 

If I was Bill Ford I would sell at least Jaguar and maybe Aston Martin and use the money in better places to bring their core line-up into shape.

[one2gamble]

Everyone in PAG makes money except Jaguar. What Jaguar needs to become is somewhere between a Benz and Bently.

 

Ford moved Jaguar in the wrong direction, they moved them down market instead of UP market. If you push Jaguar up further and allow Volvo and Lincoln to fill the 30-70k Void then the product plan is perfect.

 

Jaguar should start at 50k and run all the way up to 175K using AL and the most wonderous Leather and Wood you can buy.

 

Keep AM building GT cars and Sports cars and stop them from building the Rapide. Keep the fast and lux/sexy 4 doors for Jaguar.

 

Ford-Mazda 10k-35k

Merc-20k-40k

Lincoln-30-60k (American Lux)

Volvo-25-60k (Euro Lux/Safety)

Jaguar- 55K-175K

AM-100k-300k

Edited August 2, 2006 by one2gamble

[Walt]

Regarding Lincoln, can you really have a strong luxury division with a rebadged Expedition, F-150 and Edge, and two sedans? Develop a rear-wheel-drive platform for the brand with distinctive styling, or drop the brand. American-made Volvos could take the place of Lincoln since they are now chasing the same demographic anyway. Once again, marketing dollars could be spent to enhance the Volvo brand.

 

I would also add that I feel that Lincoln needs a brand-specific line of engines. Something like what Cadillac has done with "Northstar". Basically, a line of engines which are the ultimate in the latest "hi tech" stuff. Yea, having the latest "hi tech" stuff costs more, but isn't that what Lincoln is suppose to be?

 

For example, I could be more forgiving of Lincoln offering a rebadged Edge, if their MKX had, say, a Lincoln exclusive V8 under the hood. Edge = V6 with 265HP, MKX = V8 with 320HP. Right now, cooled seats is hardly a distinction worth around $10K more.

[Joe771476]

First, Jag is coming out with some new R models, aren't they? Let's see what they do! I said a long time ago Jag should sell less units but for more money! Make them expensive so the luxo buyer feels like he's being porked! They like that feeling! I use to work for an auto parts place that was probably one of the first outfits to repair cars AND sell auto parts at dealer cost! This was long before Pep Boys etc. As recently as 1996 (when I left) we would do a tune up for $100! A 4 wheel brake job? $100! That's pads, shoes, turn rotors and drums and labor! But guess what! Some customers complained we weren't charging them enough and felt as though we had skimped on the repairs! Second, these sales declines are because sales last year were abnormally bloated due to incentives! Third, Ford ALWAYS buys a brand high, sells it low! They sold heavy truck for a lousy $300 million! They paid $6 billion for Jag and put in probably $1 or 2 billion more since. What would they ask for it? What could they get for it? PEANUTS! Why should Jag owners care if Ford owns it? If it wasn't for Ford there'd be no Jaguar! Toyota (cheap) owns Lexus. Chevrolet/GM (cheap) owns Cadillac.

Edited August 3, 2006 by Joe771476

[NickF1011]

I would also add that I feel that Lincoln needs a brand-specific line of engines. Something like what Cadillac has done with "Northstar".

 

You mean the Cadillac-specific Northstar that Pontiac and Buick both use too? :P

[68Cougar]

They paid $6 billion for Jag and put in probably $1 or 2 billion more since.

Actually it was 2.1 billion for Jag. They paid 6B for Volvo.

 

Everyone in PAG makes money except Jaguar. What Jaguar needs to become is somewhere between a Benz and Bently.

 

Ford moved Jaguar in the wrong direction, they moved them down market instead of UP market. If you push Jaguar up further and allow Volvo and Lincoln to fill the 30-70k Void then the product plan is perfect.

 

Jaguar should start at 50k and run all the way up to 175K using AL and the most wonderous Leather and Wood you can buy.

 

Keep AM building GT cars and Sports cars and stop them from building the Rapide. Keep the fast and lux/sexy 4 doors for Jaguar.

 

Ford-Mazda 10k-35k

Merc-20k-40k

Lincoln-30-60k (American Lux)

Volvo-25-60k (Euro Lux/Safety)

Jaguar- 55K-175K

AM-100k-300k

I agree with this completely. The only problem Jaguar has had is Ford not knowing what to do with them. There's no reason to move them down market.

[igor]

Ford officially announced hiring Mr. Leet.

 

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?...p;make_id=trust

 

Of course the PR was vague enough not to confirm anything about PAG, Jaguar review,

 

Igor

[wescoent]

The main problem with selling Jaguar is the buy high sell low concept mentioned earlier. Ford paid over 2 billion for Jaguar, and given how much money they've lost and are losing, I cannot see how they'd be able to recoup all their costs through just selling it, or how that would help them in the long run.

 

The only thing Jaguar has ever had going for it was sheer exclusivity. Their cars have always sucked compared to their contemporary German or American models. They were good looking, and Jaguar sports cars were decent. That's it. Jaguar was a poorly managed money-loser whose best acccomplishment was staving off eventual death or buyout. Ford can either have Jaguar return to its roots, or blaze an all-new path. Brands are not enslaved to their heritage.

 

At this point, we've gotten ourselves into this mess, we started getting ourselves out, and might as well finish it. We have the technology and know-how, so we might as well use it. We can use Jaguar's heritage to guide us, but at the same time, blaze an all-new path. Here's an idea for a cost-sharing lineup of cars to finally give Jaguar some volume and profitabilty, and become relevant again in the luxury car segment:

 

X-Type Range:

The least expensive Jaguar will be priced from $30,000. The architecture will be a Jaguar version of Ford's C1, re-engineered to be much more quiet and refined. All models will have standard 40-60 AWD, with standard with a Jaguar version of the new PAG inline-6, with 240hp, and of course, an optional diesel. Bodystyles include sedan, wagon, and 2-door hatch.

 

E-Type Range:

Jaguar gets the Mazda RX-8 chassis, from which they rework it to accomodate an inline-6 and a much curvier body, and aimed directly at the Audi TT and BMW Z4. The E-Type R, with a 350hp blown version of the engine, competes with the Porsche Cayman.

 

S-Type Range:

A redesigned version of the current S-Type. Slightly widened and lengthened for more interior space. Standard inline-6, along with a punched-out AJV8 with 360hp to catch up with the Germans. S-Type R continues with an all-new supercharged V8, this time producing at least 450hp.

 

XK Range:

Keep up the good work, Jaguar, with the new engines to give it some extra speed.

 

XJ Range:

Current chassis unchanged, with a modern redesigned interior and exterior, finally. New engines, and an optional Aston Martin V12 for uplevel models.

 

XJS Range: Based directly on the XJ's chassis, this model competes with the Mercedes CL head on, right up into Bentley Continental GT territory. Coupe and convertible models, with a standard blown V8 and optional V12 from Aston Martin.

 

There's a start.

[RichardJensen]

We have, in this article, yet another talking head going on about how rating agency actions on Ford Motor have increased Ford Credit's borrowing costs.

 

Ford Credit's aggregate borrowing rate has gone from 4.4% to 5.5% in the last year. During that time the prime rate has gone up 2 percentage points. Everybody's borrowing costs are going up. It has little to do with Ford's junk status.

[johnnyb82]

How much technology is being shared from the PAG brands down? I see Volvo but how much is coming from Aston Martin and Land Rover? If not much I would think it would make sense to sell all but Volvo.

[igor]

How much technology is being shared from the PAG brands down? I see Volvo but how much is coming from Aston Martin and Land Rover? If not much I would think it would make sense to sell all but Volvo.

 

some but not much ... the XK uses AM's engien cartin method ... the chasis is from XJ.

 

situation like this is not completely unheard of though - BMW sold Land Rover after several years, and Ford continued to build the Range Rover with BMW design and engines for several years...

 

after the redesign, they switched to Ford sourced tech.

 

IGor

[RichardJensen]

I would like to see this guy suggest some innovative moves by Ford, though. Not the 'sell it to get rid of it' approach many are advocating for Jag (which was profitable in the late 90s, following the business model it is moving back to--exclusivity and a small lineup). Or the "Sell long term profits for short term cash" approach to Ford Credit others are advocating.

[pcsario]

What I just don't get is this stupid logic of selling a brand that works in every continent, can compete at any moment with the big guys in image and prestige from the get go with any new product (like, oh, the Jaguar XK), while keeping a loser that only sells in the US (Lincoln), is known to be a grandpa brand that has customers that far-more-often-than-not, only decide to buy with "enough" incentives on the *deal*, and is a brand that HAS to be built up ($$$) for years, just to catch up with another brand that's already BELOW Jaguar (Cadillac, aka GM's one trick pony & Euro-no no).

 

A little too much patriotism over common sense, huh?

 

Short, mid, and long-term, getting rid of Lincoln would make far more sense than dumping Jaguar for some patriotic BS. (How about we DON'T sell neither?) Obviously, if Jag was selling a rebadged Expedition, a rebadged Fusion, a rebadged Explorer, a rebadged F-150, etc. it would be making money too... so don't gimme the whole "bububu Lincoln doesn't lose money that's why!1!11" line of thought.

 

If Lincoln is to become like Cadillac according to your best wishes, then Lincoln --just like Jaguar already-- would need to have propietary-everything and get rid of all rebadges. Jaguar's problems would suddenly become Lincoln's, just WORSE due to the lack of global volume and lost sales, so --again-- it's a stupid idea.

Edited August 2, 2006 by pcsario

[igor]

What I just don't get is this stupid logic of selling a brand that works in every continent, can compete at any moment with the big guys in image and prestige from the get go with any new product (like, oh, the Jaguar XK), while keeping a loser that only sells in the US (Lincoln), is known to be a grandpa brand that has customers that far-more-often-than-not, only decide to buy with "enough" incentives on the *deal*, and is a brand that HAS to be built up ($$$) for years, just to catch up with another brand that's already BELOW Jaguar (Cadillac, aka GM's one trick pony & Euro-no no).

 

A little too much patriotism over common sense, huh?

 

Short, mid, and long-term, getting rid of Lincoln would make far more sense than dumping Jaguar for some patriotic BS. (How about we DON'T sell neither?) Obviously, if Jag was selling a rebadged Expedition, a rebadged Fusion, a rebadged Explorer, a rebadged F-150, etc. it would be making money too... so don't gimme the whole "bububu Lincoln doesn't lose money that's why!1!11" line of thought.

 

If Lincoln is to become like Cadillac according to your best wishes, then Lincoln --just like Jaguar already-- would need to have propietary-everything and get rid of all rebadges. Jaguar's problems would suddenly become Lincoln's, just WORSE due to the lack of global volume and lost sales, so --again-- it's a stupid idea.

 

actually it would not - Lincoln is easily fixable - because it simply uses and will use reskinned Ford products. Jag needs unique vehicles and very, very high level of craftmanship. It is simply a money dump right now, and for the short term future. IT does have promise, and that is why Ford hired a professional to evaluate the financial side of the Jag as well as Lincoln and other operations - to see what has the potential for bearing fruit and what does not and should be cut, and left to die.

 

This guy is not there just to cut Jag -Fields and Ford could have done that themselves., He is there to evaluate everything - to audit Ford's portfolio and financial plans for the mid-term future and advise them how to make them stronger... in the process he might recommend elimination of some projects, or partnership with another company on other projects.

 

Igor

[fllcobra]

Ford still needs Lincoln/Mercury to add to the bottom line. Not everyone wants a utilitarian styled Ford. Although Lincoln/Mercury sell a lot less, they make a lot of money that adds to the bottom line.

[CptMatt]

Jaguar's problems stem from Nasser's stupidity of trying to make Ford a conglamerate, forgetting the auto end and the current administration conservative, no-risk-taking mind set.

 

It was stupid to try to sell a reskinned Ford Mondeo as a Jaguar X Type. Its a good platform but not good enough that anything could be done to it that would make it handle, ride or perform like a true Jaguar. It was also stupid to try compete with BMW and Audi model for model, the reasoning behind the X Type in the first place (a lower price entry model). Jaguar is expensive and exclusive, if not in price, then by production.

 

The S Type has gotten long in the tooth and Ford management neglected it for far too long. It should have been updated this year or last, not 2 years from now (2008MY).

 

The XJ is suffering from the same thing that is killing the Five Hundred, its too damn boring. They took the very elegant lines and proportions of the Series III/X300/X308 and bulked it up. Unfortunately, it threw off all the proportions and destroyed the gracefullness of those older designs. They needed to break with the past and built something more "conservatively radical". They should have kept some design cues from the past but taken them in a new direction.

 

The XK is beautiful but it looks too much like an Aston Martin. AMs are muscular and beefy in their look, while Jags are supposed to be sleek and light, like the old E Type or the XK its replacing. The new XK looks like an upmarket streetsweeper, the R model doubly so. But I'm sure it will sell well.

 

I don't think Ford should cut Jaguar loose any more then Land Rover or Aston Martin. They are excellent halo cars, much like the Ford GT. They dovetail well with Ford's history with England. What Ford needs to do is keep their mitts out of them and let them get on with it. Let there be tech cross-pollination, like Chrysler and Benz, but let the Brits design their own cars. They know how to do it better then a bunch of Detroiters.

[pvall1]

Hi, this is my first post. As an owner of 2 PAG products 04 x-type and an 2006 s60r, I have some thoughts about the direction of jaguar and PAG. I think that for people like me who are under 40 and (always) shopping for a premium vehicle, lincoln and mercury have absolutely no relevence (except for perhaps a hybrid). I'm sorry but you can't slap lipstick on a pig and call it a luxury car. Jaguar and Land Rover are the only Ford product lines that generate ANY excitment among the young and affluent. Second, I think that a lot of the hard work such as improving quality and productivity at the Jaguar plants has been done. Now all they need are some decent product to fill the plants. The XK and XKR are a great start. If they re-do the XJ and S-type along the same lines, they'll do fine.

 

The reality is that if Ford wants to play in the premium market, they have to be willing to commit the engineering resources to continually update product. It is naive to think that you can take a brand from near dead with a terrible reputation for quality to being a money-maker in a single product generation.

[Edgey]

Hi, this is my first post. As an owner of 2 PAG products 04 x-type and an 2006 s60r, I have some thoughts about the direction of jaguar and PAG. I think that for people like me who are under 40 and (always) shopping for a premium vehicle, lincoln and mercury have absolutely no relevence (except for perhaps a hybrid). I'm sorry but you can't slap lipstick on a pig and call it a luxury car. Jaguar and Land Rover are the only Ford product lines that generate ANY excitment among the young and affluent. Second, I think that a lot of the hard work such as improving quality and productivity at the Jaguar plants has been done. Now all they need are some decent product to fill the plants. The XK and XKR are a great start. If they re-do the XJ and S-type along the same lines, they'll do fine.

 

The reality is that if Ford wants to play in the premium market, they have to be willing to commit the engineering resources to continually update product. It is naive to think that you can take a brand from near dead with a terrible reputation for quality to being a money-maker in a single product generation.

 

This is absolutely true, and Ford seems to be better targeting its Lincoln products for the type of customers that will actually consider Lincoln. They have to find customers just entering the market since most people who have been around the block already are not going to be satsified showing off their success in a Lincoln. Lincoln has long lost its luster with younger consumers but it's not toally lost. I had a reletive who bought Lincolns back in the early 90s but 'graduated' to Caddies and ultimately Mercedes and Jaguars. Ford could use a healthy Jaguar to capture some of these people trying to graduate from their Ford products. Ford may not have the resources to mount a Jaguar revival, but I think it would be a trajedy if they lost their only premium luxury marque. It's the only brand with enough equity to exploit in the big leagues. Fortunately, the x-type seems to be a brand damaging mistake that won't happen again. IFord has done a fairly good job perserving Jaguar marque from damaging experiments. We haven't seen a panther based XJ or a Taurus based S-Type...for example!

Edited August 3, 2006 by Edgey