Should Ford Develop a 1.3 Ecoboost Engine?

[jpd80]

In my opinion, Ford should develop a 1.3 Ecoboost engine that delivers 160 hp and 180 lb ft, an engine that could replace the 1.6 Ecoboost

in all its current applications and be offered in all applications from Fiesta & B-max to Fusion & Edge. The use of a 1.3 Ecoboost would provide

similar performance to competitors' 2.5 ICE engines but with fuel economy light years ahead of them.

 

At the moment, Ford has chosen to keep the 1.6 Ecoboost power and torque level significantly lower than its potential, if it was replaced by a

1.3 Ecoboost engine, the 1.6 engine could then receive a power upgrade to 200 hp/220 lb ft and become more useful as a downsized engine

in larger vehicle applications as well as becoming more of a performance engine in its own right.

 

IMO, this possible engine line up in North America

would drive GM, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai nuts:

 

Fiesta / B-Max:

- 1.0 EB, standard engine - class leading fuel economy

- 1.3 EB, performance option with 160 hp / 180 lb ft

- 1.6 EB, ST with upgraded 200 hp/220 lb ft.

 

Focus / Escape:

- 1.3 EB, standard engine - class leading fuel economy

- 1.6 EB, performance option with upgraded 200 hp/220 lb ft.

- 2.0 EB, ST with 252 hp/270 lb ft.

 

Fusion / Edge:

- 1.3 EB, standard engine - class leading fuel economy

- 1.6 EB, performance option with upgraded 200 hp/220 lb ft.

- 2.0 EB, performance option with 240 hp / 270 lb ft.

- 2.7 EB new V6 with 325 hp / 360 lb ft

 

 

 

So what do you think..........

Edited December 22, 2012 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

One issue they might have is the downsizing of the engine might be at practical limit. Downsizing the engine more might hurt EPA numbers...but I stand by to be corrected if this isn't the case

[jpd80]

One issue they might have is the downsizing of the engine might be at practical limit. Downsizing the engine more might hurt EPA numbers...but I stand by to be corrected if this isn't the case

Most of the problem with downsizing engines is buyer perception that the engine is going to be a weakling and not deliver performance expectations

but I sense that the US market is getting used to Ford's philosophy and the 1.6 /2.0 Ecoboost is part of that changing perception. Americans would not

tolerate a 1.0 EB in a Fusion yet Ford Europe puts a 1.0 EB in the Mondeo so Ford must remain mindful of different buyer expectations in different

markets -US buyer still requires substantial fun factor in their vehicles.

 

My 1.3 Ecoboost suggestion may indeed be part of a future downsizing plan but perhaps Ford's plan requires consumers becoming comfortable with

the current Ecoboost offerings before pushing the boundaries even further.

[2b2]

just imho

No

 

the 1.5 3cyl EB should take care of the Ford Brand

esp using the euro-style dual-boost like the current 2.0EB, low=100hp per liter to high = 140hp per liter min (EB-gen2s)

 

however (actually 2 howevers)

a smaller engine, .66-¾L?, would be good for their smallest/lightest future cars (EB) and as a generator for serial hybrids/plugins (Atkinson?)

&

a revised 1.5-1.7L 4cyl EB could be good for the smallest Lincolns

imho Lincoln can use a "nothing smaller than 4cyl" scheme for differentiation

[battyr]

Yes, build a 1.3L I-3 Eco-boost. Then build a 2.6L I-6 Eco-boost for Lincoln and F-150.

[Biker16]

Yes, build a 1.3L I-3 Eco-boost. Then build a 2.6L I-6 Eco-boost for Lincoln and F-150.

 

A FWD I6 for Lincoln?

[jpd80]

A FWD I6 for Lincoln?

An SI6 without the intricate Volvo gear drive, a simple chain drive for cam timing at the flywheel end of the crank?

[Biker16]

An SI6 without the intricate Volvo gear drive, a simple chain drive for cam timing at the flywheel end of the crank?

 

why bother when the nano V6 is almost here? If we were talking about RWD Lincoln that is another story, FWD I6 used a different Transaxle setup to save space, not worth the trouble IMO.

[jpd80]

why bother when the nano V6 is almost here? If we were talking about RWD Lincoln that is another story, FWD I6 used a different Transaxle setup to save space, not worth the trouble IMO.

Because My original question relates to an I.3 Ecoboost and the topic got skewed talking about six cylinders.

 

The specific power output of the current 1.6 EB is much lower than that of the 1.0 EB and 2.0 EB,

A 1.3 EB could fill that role in Escape, Focus, Fusion for a start and most likely give better economy than current engine options.

Could you imagine the possible impact of a Focus with better power and torque than the 2.0 DI but easily getting 44 or 45 mpg highway?

I think that near hybrid like economy would blitz Toyota and send a lot of other Asian car makers back to the drawing board..

Edited December 26, 2012 by jpd80

[Edstock]

A 5-cylinder from the 2.0 gives a 2.5. With EB, it might have some utility.

[Hugh]

Because My original question relates to an I.3 Ecoboost and the topic got skewed talking about six cylinders.

 

The specific power output of the current 1.6 EB is much lower than that of the 1.0 EB and 2.0 EB,

A 1.3 EB could fill that role in Escape, Focus, Fusion for a start and most likely give better economy than current engine options.

Could you imagine the possible impact of a Focus with better power and torque than the 2.0 DI but easily getting 44 or 45 mpg highway?

I think that near hybrid like economy would blitz Toyota and send a lot of other Asian car makers back to the drawing board..

 

My thoughts is I'd rather see the current D16 get DI which would boost power and FE. A 6 speed Manual and Powershift will round out the package. I think this plant will be around for a little longer unless EB GEN II is coming out. I can't see the need for a 1.3L However, there's chat of a 1.5 coming out which would probably resolve this. I'm said before the current plant should get some more goodies but it looks like that isn't happening.

[Biker16]

Because My original question relates to an I.3 Ecoboost and the topic got skewed talking about six cylinders.

 

The specific power output of the current 1.6 EB is much lower than that of the 1.0 EB and 2.0 EB,

A 1.3 EB could fill that role in Escape, Focus, Fusion for a start and most likely give better economy than current engine options.

Could you imagine the possible impact of a Focus with better power and torque than the 2.0 DI but easily getting 44 or 45 mpg highway?

I think that near hybrid like economy would blitz Toyota and send a lot of other Asian car makers back to the drawing board..

 

then hell yes ford should develop a EB1.3l I3 or an I4, for the Reasons you have mentioned.

[Biker16]

A 5-cylinder from the 2.0 gives a 2.5. With EB, it might have some utility.

 

what about the new 2.3 I4 and the new 2.7 V6? how would a 2.5l I5 fit in?

[bzcat]

I think 1.3 may be the wrong displacement.

There is a reason why VW (and GM) went with 1.2 turbo and 1.4 turbo... and why the Ford's Zetec-SE engine has that strange 1.25 liter displacement. Many European and Asian countries have engine displacement based tax system so 1.3 is probably getting taxed at an unnecessarily higher rate.

 

1.2 Ecoboost may not make sense now that Ford is all-in on the 1.0 Ecoboost I3. In fact, most of the early comparison in Europe on Ford's new 1.0 Ecoboost is vs. VW's 1.2 TSI. So that means 1.4 Ecoboost is the most logical choice. However, I think the issue here is deminishing returns between 1.6 and 1.4 Ecoboost. Ford can achieve most of the MPG gains on the 1.6 Ecoboost by simply reducing the boost, which is exactly what they've done to compete with VW's 1.4 TSI in Europe.

 

Under the current powertrain line up, I really don't see a need for 1.3 Ecoboost.

[jpd80]

Perhaps it's simply priorities with developing Ecoboost capacities that deliver the biggest perception changes

3.5 EB was perfect for offering Ford's large vehicle customers an alternative to V8s,

1.6 EB and 2.0 EB offered Mid sized SUV and Car buyers alternatives to 2.5 I-4 and V6 respectively.

 

The 1.0 EB changes all perceptions of petrol fuel economy in Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo,

the performance of the latter two would exclude their application in the US... for now.

 

Perhaps teaming the 1.0 EB with a passive hybrid would bear more fruit than a new larger engine..

[Phugoff]

but I sense that the US market is getting used to Ford's philosophy and the 1.6 /2.0 Ecoboost is part of that changing perception. Americans would not

tolerate a 1.0 EB in a Fusion yet Ford Europe puts a 1.0 EB in the Mondeo so Ford must remain mindful of different buyer expectations in different

markets -US buyer still requires substantial fun factor in their vehicles

I agree with this opinion. Americans are truly afraid of small displacement motors and diesel motors. This perception is changing very slowly, but the gas prices are helping this move a little quicker

[bzcat]

It's not that Americans are afraid of small engines. It's that we don't have an economic incentive to downsize. Our gas is cheap and all things being equal, most people can see that bigger engines don't add significantly to operating costs. So car companies has to market the smaller engine as either "right brain" performance option (e.g. F-150 Ecoboost maga towing capability) or a "left brain" environmental appeal (e.g. the very fact Ford calls is "Ecoboost").

 

If our vehicle/gas tax is based on CO2 output like most of the industrialized world, you will see people buying smaller gas turbo and diesel engines overnight. [edit: not making a political statement, just pointing out the economic incentives]

Edited January 3, 2013 by bzcat

[jpd80]

Agreed, what's the benefit in ultra fuel economy if the need is not reflected in the cost of fuel.

 

However, in terms of delivering continual improvement, best in class fuel economy and staying ahead of CAFE limits,

fuel economy does play a part although it's not driven entirely by the consumer.....

 

Now, if buyers didn't want the cost of a hybrid Focus and were prepared to accept a mediocre performer, the 1.0 EB Focus

with hypothetically, around 36 mpg city and 46 mpg highway could be an affordable response/solution to say, a diesel Cruze.

although a 1.6 Ecoboost Focus like Europe has may have much broader appeal without sacrificing too much economy.

Edited January 3, 2013 by jpd80

[92merc]

although a 1.6 Ecoboost Focus like Europe has may have much broader appeal without sacrificing too much economy.

Europe has the 1.6EB in a Focus? WTF! I thought about getting a Focus and handing down my Montego to my son. But I thought, "No, I'll wait 'till the 1.6EB is out in the Focus." Bastards!! :-)

[jpd80]

Europe has the 1.6EB in a Focus? WTF! I thought about getting a Focus and handing down my Montego to my son. But I thought, "No, I'll wait 'till the 1.6EB is out in the Focus." Bastards!! :-)

Yeah, Ford Europe buyers get a 150 hp version of the 1.6 EB but that only comes with the 6-speed manual trans...

Edited January 4, 2013 by jpd80

[Biker16]

Yeah, Ford Europe buyers get a 150 hp version of the 1.6 EB but that only comes with the 6-speed manual trans...

the thing is the 150hp EcoBoost does not have better economy numbers than the 180hp version.

 

 

this opens the door for a 1.3 or even a 1.2liter Ecoboost.

[jpd80]

the thing is the 150hp EcoBoost does not have better economy numbers than the 180hp version.

 

 

this opens the door for a 1.3 or even a 1.2liter Ecoboost.

Perhaps in the future when the buying public become thoroughly accustomed to the 1.6 EB, the current acceptance

level for that engine shows the degree of change that has happened in a relatively small amount of time.

[Biker16]

Perhaps in the future when the buying public become thoroughly accustomed to the 1.6 EB, the current acceptance

level for that engine shows the degree of change that has happened in a relatively small amount of time.

 

 

it will interesting what ford will do to fill the GTDI gap between 125hp and 180hp.

 

the issue is the market for a 150-160hp economy power plant is limited to north American C-cars or heavy B-cars like the B-max and Ecosport.

 

questions I have are the viability of the GTDI in hybrid, and the requirement for a lower output hybrid drive systems in the 120-140hp range to power lower cost HEVs

 

I am still trying to figure out what the 1.5l engine is.

[bzcat]

 

I am still trying to figure out what the 1.5l engine is.

 

Depends on which 1.5l engine you are talking about.

 

The 1.5 used in Chinese spec Fiesta is Mazda MZR (1498cc) - paired with 4 speed auto also used on Mazda2.

 

The 1.5 TiVCT used in Indian/ASENA spec Fiesta and upcoming EcoSport (1499cc) is destroked version of 1.6 TiVCT (1596cc) - paired with 6 speed DCT auto.