newworld Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Is it true that there is a lincoln version of the Explorer planned for 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 It's likely coming at some point, but it'll probably be a little later to keep it on the same refresh cycle as the Explorer and likely won't happen until it moves to a new platform. The timeframe on that is still a bit iffy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mw371r Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I hope there is. The current explorer styling is pretty sweet, so I'm sure the Lincoln version would be great too. I just wish it got better MPG, and I would be all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackintire Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 The Nano series Eco-boost engines should make that possible. I'd expect the 2.3 liter version (est. 275HP) to replace the 2.0 in the explorer and its Lincoln counterpart as the 2.0 is a little anemic in that vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logatron Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Wasn't that the Lincoln Aviator? That didn't do so great...it would have to differentiate itself much more from the Explorer to be viable in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Poke Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Yes, the Lincoln version of the Ford Explorer was the Lincoln Aviator. I was seriously considering buying one in 2002 when a Ford dealer salesman told me, flatly, "You don't want one. They've got problems." I grant you, this was a Ford dealer salesman, not a Lincoln dealer salesman, telling me this, but I ended up buying a 2002 Explorer, Eddie Bauer version, that I really, really liked and that served me very well until i sold it in 2007 to buy my first Lincoln (an MKZ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Wasn't that the Lincoln Aviator? That didn't do so great...it would have to differentiate itself much more from the Explorer to be viable in the market. Well, the differentiation goes without saying. That's true of the entire Lincoln brand at this point. We should look toward the production MKC unveil for what kind of differentiation we should really start to expect moving forward. MKZ was a start, but MKC looks to be taking it another step further. I would expect nothing short of that for a Lincoln-ized Explorer, which the Aviator definitely did not accomplish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Yes, the Lincoln version of the Ford Explorer was the Lincoln Aviator. I was seriously considering buying one in 2002 when a Ford dealer salesman told me, flatly, "You don't want one. They've got problems." I grant you, this was a Ford dealer salesman, not a Lincoln dealer salesman, telling me this, but I ended up buying a 2002 Explorer, Eddie Bauer version, that I really, really liked and that served me very well until i sold it in 2007 to buy my first Lincoln (an MKZ). Wish I'd taken that advice. We bought a 2003 (great deal - leftover model with X plan). They replaced the head under warranty along with a lot of other issues. We got rid of it as soon as the warranty expired. Only really bad vehicle we ever had that we bought new. There is a reason it was discontinued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Makes me wonder why the 4.6 DOHC in the Aviator was so problematic. You never really heard any issues about them reliability-wise in other models that used a nearly identical engine: Cobra, Mach 1, Marauder, Continental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Makes me wonder why the 4.6 DOHC in the Aviator was so problematic. You never really heard any issues about them reliability-wise in other models that used a nearly identical engine: Cobra, Mach 1, Marauder, Continental. Au contraire mon ami. The Cobra most certainly did have the same problem with cooling in #8 cylinder - that's where I heard about it first before the Aviator. It was a design flaw of the 4V DOHC heads. I don't think the others sold enough vehicles for it to be widely reported like the Cobra and Aviator or it was only on the later generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Au contraire mon ami. The Cobra most certainly did have the same problem with cooling in #8 cylinder - that's where I heard about it first before the Aviator. It was a design flaw of the 4V DOHC heads. I don't think the others sold enough vehicles for it to be widely reported like the Cobra and Aviator or it was only on the later generation. As a long-time member on the SVT Performance forums and member of an active Cobra club, I haven't heard of any widespread cooling issues on them, at least not nearly to the point where it appeared on the Aviator. :shrug: Edited June 18, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jniffen Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I heard what really hurt the Aviator being just a few thousand short of a Navigator. Those days people would look and say, for $2k more and I get this? I'll take the Nav. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I keep reading all the messages on the BON Forums about the Explorer and Taurus moving to a new platform but I'm not convinced that it's going to happen so soon especially as Ford invested a lot of engineering dollars for the Police Interceptor versions. Plus, the current Taurus/Explorer series get about 25% better fuel economy than the previous models. Further, Explorer retail sales took off again this year and they're in short supply until dealers can rebuild stock inventory again which will take some time. As for the ongoing Lincoln discussion, a Ford service representative was at our store last week and he was driving a new Lincoln MKZ. It wasn't parked in a good spot for viewing and wasn't really clean. My initial reaction was that of being unimpressed compared to what Ford accomplished with the all-new 2013 Fusion series. My conversation with the Ford representative driving the Lincoln MKZ started with my gut reaction to seeing the all-new MKZ in person and then about Lincoln's long and continued promises about all the new Lincoln product to be introduced. Ford and Lincoln have been talking for years now about all the new Lincoln product to be launched but they're being released at a snail's pace. Ford/Lincoln has still not announced a timetable for the Lincoln MKC model that was unveiled some time ago now. I really hope it's now true but it's looking more and more like it's "too little, too late" for at least the domestic Lincoln dealers. They and Lincoln need the new product now, not in a few more years. I'll be happy to see Lincoln prove me wrong but glad for now that I don't work for a Lincoln dealer even though Ford has urged our Dealer Principal to talk to the Lincoln store owner near us about buying the Lincoln franchise. My boss has no interest based on Lincoln's performance and the continued delay in the introduction of promised all-new Lincoln models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I keep reading all the messages on the BON Forums about the Explorer and Taurus moving to a new platform but I'm not convinced that it's going to happen so soon especially as Ford invested a lot of engineering dollars for the Police Interceptor versions. Plus, the current Taurus/Explorer series get about 25% better fuel economy than the previous models. Further, Explorer retail sales took off again this year and they're in short supply until dealers can rebuild stock inventory again which will take some time. As for the ongoing Lincoln discussion, a Ford service representative was at our store last week and he was driving a new Lincoln MKZ. It wasn't parked in a good spot for viewing and wasn't really clean. My initial reaction was that of being unimpressed compared to what Ford accomplished with the all-new 2013 Fusion series. My conversation with the Ford representative driving the Lincoln MKZ started with my gut reaction to seeing the all-new MKZ in person and then about Lincoln's long and continued promises about all the new Lincoln product to be introduced. Ford and Lincoln have been talking for years now about all the new Lincoln product to be launched but they're being released at a snail's pace. Ford/Lincoln has still not announced a timetable for the Lincoln MKC model that was unveiled some time ago now. I really hope it's now true but it's looking more and more like it's "too little, too late" for at least the domestic Lincoln dealers. They and Lincoln need the new product now, not in a few more years. I'll be happy to see Lincoln prove me wrong but glad for now that I don't work for a Lincoln dealer even though Ford has urged our Dealer Principal to talk to the Lincoln store owner near us about buying the Lincoln franchise. My boss has no interest based on Lincoln's performance and the continued delay in the introduction of promised all-new Lincoln models. Lincoln actually finally had a month of sales that didn't decline and you're going to NOW declare them dead? And what "continued delay" are you talking about? I mean it's literally been barely over a year now since Ford announced the Lincoln revitalization and you expect them to have a stable full of new vehicles already? Ford has not officially announced the MKC launch date, but it is widely speculated it will be a very early 2014 launch, which really is just around the corner. New MKX and MKS will follow not long after the MKC, based on early spy photos of new Edge and Taurus mules already popping up here and there. Other new vehicle launches are simply dependent upon the platforms they are based on: That leaves only 2 models, really: Lincoln Explorer and/or MKT and new Navigator, which wouldn't be good fits for launch now based on the predicted end-of-life timeframes of the platforms they currently utilize. But realistically, by the end of 2014, or very early into 2015 you'll at the very least likely be looking at 4 all-new models in MKZ, MKC, MKS, and MKX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 As a long-time member on the SVT Performance forums and member of an active Cobra club, I haven't heard of any widespread cooling issues on them, at least not nearly to the point where it appeared on the Aviator. :shrug: Apparently it was just the 03-04 Cobra models and it only affected a percentage of them. I'm sure they sold many more Aviators in the same timeframe so it showed up on more of them. There are companies that make kits to fix the cooling problem on the 7 and 8 cylinders so it's definitely a known problem. Supposedly it was fixed in 05. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) I keep reading all the messages on the BON Forums about the Explorer and Taurus moving to a new platform but I'm not convinced that it's going to happen so soon especially as Ford invested a lot of engineering dollars for the Police Interceptor versions. Plus, the current Taurus/Explorer series get about 25% better fuel economy than the previous models. Further, Explorer retail sales took off again this year and they're in short supply until dealers can rebuild stock inventory again which will take some time....But realistically, by the end of 2014, or very early into 2015 you'll at the very least likely be looking at 4 all-new models in MKZ, MKC, MKS, and MKX...."too little, too late" for at least the domestic Lincoln dealers. They and Lincoln need the new product now, not in a few more years. I'll be happy to see Lincoln prove me wrong but glad for now that I don't work for a Lincoln dealer even though Ford has urged our Dealer Principal to talk to the Lincoln store owner near us about buying the Lincoln franchise. My boss has no interest based on Lincoln's performance and the continued delay in the introduction of promised all-new Lincoln models. both great & horrible to see your comments, ice capades cuz I feel much the same, darn it. Really wish I was more certain about the nextgen MKS esp... ...its timeframe ...its platform ...even *IF* it's gonna be/be-called an MKS... my main(?) gripe is that Lincoln needs momentum with new vehicles. I can wait for the MKC but that better be the last year-long+ launch hiatus (think-hope it will be) re: this year, 2013cy imho a Navi refresh (of ANY degree) would('ve) been good cuz&imho2 think the all-new Navi is still 24 months away Edited June 20, 2013 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 re: this year, 2013cy imho a Navi refresh (of ANY degree) would('ve) been good cuz&imho2 think the all-new Navi is still 24 months away Well, there have been Expys with camo running around. There might be a shot for them to at least see new powertrains inside a year or so. If not, you're not talking about more than a few hundred sales a month anyway. In another 7-8 months they'll have the MKC to sell. That alongside the MKZ should be responsible for a good 4/5 of volume for most dealers. If they aren't out of business by then, they should be fine. If they are, well, it stinks, but frankly, Lincoln still needs fewer dealers anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordFanForEver Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think what killed the Aviator was that it was priced very close to the Navigator and it competed with its own sister, the Moutaineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think what killed the Aviator was that it was priced very close to the Navigator and it competed with its own sister, the Moutaineer. It was the same thing that killed the old Explorer - customers moved away from BOF SUVs and moved to crossovers with better NVH, ride, handling and fuel economy. We moved from the Aviator to an Edge and except for the cooled seats we really didn't miss anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordFanForEver Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 It was the same thing that killed the old Explorer - customers moved away from BOF SUVs and moved to crossovers with better NVH, ride, handling and fuel economy. We moved from the Aviator to an Edge and except for the cooled seats we really didn't miss anything. I still see an Aviator every now and then and half of the time I see them, they are at a car lot. What made you decide to buy an Aviator over a Primier Mountaineer or a EB or KR Explorer? Just curious because I sometimes wonder if the Aviator didn't exist, if those cutomers would have bought a higher trim Explorer or Moutaineer. Much like if the Milan didn't exist, would those cutomers purchase a Fusion? Mariner / Escape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordFanForEver Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 It was the same thing that killed the old Explorer - customers moved away from BOF SUVs and moved to crossovers with better NVH, ride, handling and fuel economy. We moved from the Aviator to an Edge and except for the cooled seats we really didn't miss anything. Hope you ar enjoying your Edge. I had the chance to drive a 2.0 EB in the Taurus and I thought it moved it well. I'd like to drive and Edge with the 2.0 EB to see how it handles but I would think since the Edge and Taurus are similar in weight, it move it the same. Explorer is nearly 500 lbs more than the two and that has the 2.0 EB in it... yikes.. and that can seat 7. Since you had a Aviator to an Edge, why not an Aviator to a MKX? Were you not sold on the quality of Lincoln at the time? I like the current MKX but nothing about it would make me purchase one over an Edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I still see an Aviator every now and then and half of the time I see them, they are at a car lot. What made you decide to buy an Aviator over a Primier Mountaineer or a EB or KR Explorer? Just curious because I sometimes wonder if the Aviator didn't exist, if those cutomers would have bought a higher trim Explorer or Moutaineer. Much like if the Milan didn't exist, would those cutomers purchase a Fusion? Mariner / Escape? Well, at least in the case of the Aviator, you were given a powertrain not available in the Mountaineer/Explorer. Wasn't the case in the Milan/Fusion or Mariner/Escape where the similarities were still much closer. The newer Titanium trim levels on Fords pretty much encompass what was previously Mercury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordFanForEver Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Well, at least in the case of the Aviator, you were given a powertrain not available in the Mountaineer/Explorer. Wasn't the case in the Milan/Fusion or Mariner/Escape where the similarities were still much closer. The newer Titanium trim levels on Fords pretty much encompass what was previously Mercury. I'm not sure about the Titanium amounting to what was Mercury... Ford has had the Limited trim for a while which was loaded with goodies. Same thing but a different name for the trim. That was the problem, a fully loaded Fusion was near the same as a fully loaded Milan with little difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timf Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 My experience with Mercury was you got a better equipped model for less money. I had two Mountaineers and they were a far better value than comparably equipped Explorers at the time. I think a big part of it was the aesthetics had a more premium look to them with the use of two-tone colors and metallic finishes. Since the demise of Mercury, Ford has incorporated some of these design elements into their own models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Basically we liked the unique aviator interior and cooled seats and grille. I actually drove the aviator about a year before it appeared in a focus group and loved it. We probably would have gotten another explorer had it not been available. Never cared for the mountaineer. When we looked at the 08 mkx we didn't like the styling and it wasn't worth $5k just to get cooled seats. I suspect she'll wind up with a mkc next - love the styling. I just got a 2013 fusion titanium and couldn't be happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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