New Light & Medium Duty News

[Bob Rosadini]

5 minutes ago, SoonerLS said:

I meant the part about the badge being deleted to facilitate the wrap.

Got it..by the way as these things are now put on with adhesive I guess if you were to take it off you would have to scrub old stuff off before  you could put new one on.  I also see a lot emergency 450/550s around here that are clearly diesels but no badge

[Joe771476]

Saturday 9-16-2023, 10 AM EDT from Hartford CT to Exit 73 eastbound I-84: In about 20 miles and a 20 minute time span, I observed around 120 medium duty white Freightliner bucket trucks heading west. I also observed one F750. I also observed about 20 F-series light duty bucket trucks. Where were they coming from or going to is beyond me! I could have understood if they were heading east toward the New England coast while Hurricane Lee was approaching, but they weren't! I was watching a Modern marvels episode about the creation of the Interstate Highway system and caught a peek of some footage of late 50's/early 60's Ford tandem axle Class 8 dump trucks on the job.

[7Mary3]

This is interesting, and we will likely be seeing it happen more often:

 

https://www.isuzucv.com/en/news/headlines

[Bob Rosadini]

On 9/17/2023 at 5:56 PM, Joe771476 said:

Saturday 9-16-2023, 10 AM EDT from Hartford CT to Exit 73 eastbound I-84: In about 20 miles and a 20 minute time span, I observed around 120 medium duty white Freightliner bucket trucks heading west. I also observed one F750. I also observed about 20 F-series light duty bucket trucks. Where were they coming from or going to is beyond me! I could have understood if they were heading east toward the New England coast while Hurricane Lee was approaching, but they weren't! I was watching a Modern marvels episode about the creation of the Interstate Highway system and caught a peek of some footage of late 50's/early 60's Ford tandem axle Class 8 dump trucks on the job.

My guess Joe is they were going home.  The big storm we were supposed to get tracked to the east..did not turn out to be the monster they thought it was.  I had to go to a memorial service on Cape Sat AM and when I went by the rest area along the canal at Boiurne, there were  about 6 or 7 tree service buckets parked.  Waiting for the "call".  didn't happen.

[Bob Rosadini]

6 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

This is interesting, and we will likely be seeing it happen more often:

 

https://www.isuzucv.com/en/news/headlines

 

Yes and exactly what the CARB loons want.

[7Mary3]

16 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Yes and exactly what the CARB loons want.

 

You can bet your last dollar that the EPA will eventually adopt the same standards nationwide, sooner rather than later.  Of course the new CARB standards will be adopted immediately by the other CARB states, so these new NOX standards are well on their way to nation wide adoption anyway.  From what I understand, new standards are going to be hard for diesels to comply to, particularly medium duty.  Could be good for Ford and Isuzu, however.     

[Bob Rosadini]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:28 PM, 7Mary3 said:

Still no news on the F-650 and 750.  Ordering is closed for the 2024 MY, nothing on a 2025 MY.  Any dealer people have any information?  Might hear more as UAW negotiations continue.

Here is some news....Go to Ford.com, commercial trucks ,and open 650/750, then specifications. Lists air brakes across the board..650/750, gas or diesel.  Not true.  Still a "forward year projection.  Unless of course, the CARB ruling brings then to their senses and if they want to sell many 650/750's in CA, lack of air option may be a deal breaker.

 

Here in Northeast, heavy 750's were used by many utilities in the Cautillan/Blue Diamond era as heavy line/bucket/polecat trucks.  Never see the OAP trucks now..all FL and Navistar.

Surprisingly Paccar hasn't made a move there.

[7Mary3]

4 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Here in Northeast, heavy 750's were used by many utilities in the Cautillan/Blue Diamond era as heavy line/bucket/polecat trucks.  Never see the OAP trucks now..all FL and Navistar.

Surprisingly Paccar hasn't made a move there.

 

I suspect it's because of the transmission.  No Allison in the OAP trucks.  I think the Torq-Shift transmissions are limited when it comes to P.T.O.'s.  We had 'Blue Diamonds' with the 3000 World transmissions in them.  But really, I don't think Ford cares about the specialized vocational end of the class 6 and 7 market.  

[Bob Rosadini]

On 9/21/2023 at 1:33 AM, 7Mary3 said:

 

I suspect it's because of the transmission.  No Allison in the OAP trucks.  I think the Torq-Shift transmissions are limited when it comes to P.T.O.'s.  We had 'Blue Diamonds' with the 3000 World transmissions in them.  But really, I don't think Ford cares about the specialized vocational end of the class 6 and 7 market.  

 

That too but  I  still say there are plenty of vocational buyers in CA-and Oregon-who want a conventional class 6/7 but as they are forced to go with gas, will still want air brakes...my broken record speach...like the contractor who uses a 6-8 yd dump and pulls a loader back hoe or the tree guy who pulls a big tracked skid steer etc etc.  How many class 6/7 trucks are registered in California?  Probably more than in the 6 New England states combined I would guess.

[7Mary3]

I noticed in some other threads that it was mentioned Ford is notifying the UAW that they are planning a significant increase in 7.3L production.  Again, probably related to increasingly stringent diesel emissions regulations.  I see more gasoline powered medium duty trucks.

[Bob Rosadini]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

I noticed in some other threads that it was mentioned Ford is notifying the UAW that they are planning a significant increase in 7.3L production.  Again, probably related to increasingly stringent diesel emissions regulations.  I see more gasoline powered medium duty trucks.

Correct on the increased 7.3 production.  Again, any clue how big the class 6 and 7 markets are in CA and OR.  CA must be huge.  So all the players in those states will need a capable gas power plant.  Someone will be a big winner I would imagine.

[7Mary3]

15 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Correct on the increased 7.3 production.  Again, any clue how big the class 6 and 7 markets are in CA and OR.  CA must be huge.  So all the players in those states will need a capable gas power plant.  Someone will be a big winner I would imagine.

 

I think Cummins will be in a pretty good position with their 'fuel agnostic' engines for class 7 and 8.    

[Bob Rosadini]

33 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

I think Cummins will be in a pretty good position with their 'fuel agnostic' engines for class 7 and 8.    

Probably but I'm sure it will be at a big premium to the7.3 or a big block GM-or however that is that buildfs a clone..there is one correct?

[iamweasel]

On 9/25/2023 at 5:12 PM, 7Mary3 said:

 

I think Cummins will be in a pretty good position with their 'fuel agnostic' engines for class 7 and 8.    

 

Freightliner and PACCAR will be offering the new Cummins Gas B6.7/7.2 variant starting in 25CY - with Allison transmissions - so I'd be really nervous about that if I was Ford.  Ford had the luxury of being the only game in town when it came to Class 6-7 gas motors but now others are joining the party, with a more sought after transmission, too.   The Cummins B6.7/7.2 will go up to 300-350HP / 660 torque which is plenty for that class.

 

Cummins even claims the gas variant will have the same B50 life as the diesel.  If true that is pretty groundbreaking, but that certainly defies conventional logic regarding engine life ratings between gas and diesel.

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by iamweasel

[Bob Rosadini]

14 hours ago, iamweasel said:

 

Freightliner and PACCAR will be offering the new Cummins Gas B6.7/7.2 variant starting in 25CY - with Allison transmissions - so I'd be really nervous about that if I was Ford.  Ford had the luxury of being the only game in town when it came to Class 6-7 gas motors but now others are joining the party, with a more sought after transmission, too.   The Cummins B6.7/7.2 will go up to 300-350HP / 660 torque which is plenty for that class.

 

Cummins even claims the gas variant will have the same B50 life as the diesel.  If true that is pretty groundbreaking, but that certainly defies conventional logic regarding engine life ratings between gas and diesel.

 

Key question..if it is derived from 6.7, I  would have to imagine it will be priced accordingly.

For the savy buyer, that won't be that much of an issue if the B-50 claim is true.  By  the way what is the B-50 Number??

[7Mary3]

15 hours ago, iamweasel said:

 

Freightliner and PACCAR will be offering the new Cummins Gas B6.7/7.2 variant starting in 25CY - with Allison transmissions - so I'd be really nervous about that if I was Ford.  Ford had the luxury of being the only game in town when it came to Class 6-7 gas motors but now others are joining the party, with a more sought after transmission, too.   The Cummins B6.7/7.2 will go up to 300-350HP / 660 torque which is plenty for that class.

 

Cummins even claims the gas variant will have the same B50 life as the diesel.  If true that is pretty groundbreaking, but that certainly defies conventional logic regarding engine life ratings between gas and diesel.

 

 

Ford will no doubt beat Freightliner and PACCAR on price, but Ford will likely lose market share.  That is if they are still in class 6/7 come 2025.

 

Heard rumors that Ram will use the Cummins gasoline 6.7L, but I don't believe it yet.  I see the Hemi staying in production for trucks.

Edited September 27, 2023 by 7Mary3

[7Mary3]

On 9/25/2023 at 2:41 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

Probably but I'm sure it will be at a big premium to the7.3 or a big block GM-or however that is that buildfs a clone..there is one correct?

 

Yes, Powertrain Solutions still offers a 8.8L version of the old Chevy Big Block.  Navistar uses it in school buses, both gasoline and LPG.  Never understood why Navistar didn't extend the option to trucks, but maybe they will now.  

[iamweasel]

41 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Key question..if it is derived from 6.7, I  would have to imagine it will be priced accordingly.

For the savy buyer, that won't be that much of an issue if the B-50 claim is true.  By  the way what is the B-50 Number??

 

They won't officially give B50 #'s anymore, but I'd say 250-300K miles is a safe assumption.  It does vary quite a bit by duty cycle, though.  

 

The FTL/PACCAR trucks will no doubt be higher priced than the F650/750 but to many that won't matter.  Owning a Ford is a completely different experience than the others, and many are perfectly willing to pay more for nicer trucks and better parts & service support.  

[zipnzap]

Thoughts on the new M2 Plus, especially in comparison to the F650/F750?

 

https://www.ccjdigital.com/trucks/article/15294574/freightliner-reenergizing-its-vocational-line-with-m2-plus-sd-plus

 

https://www.freightliner.com/trucks/m2-106-plus/

 

https://www.freightliner.com/trucks/m2-112-plus/

[7Mary3]

Freightliner seems to have addressed my major gripe of the M2 and SD trucks- a lousy HVAC system.  The rest of the truck sees a lot of detail improvements, and some of the changes are for easier upfits.  And there is the transition to all Cummins-based engines.  Freightliner is moving in the right direction.

 

Compared to the F-650 and 750 I would say it's better in all respects, and in some areas substantially.  The Freightliner is, however, more expensive.  

[iamweasel]

7 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Freightliner seems to have addressed my major gripe of the M2 and SD trucks- a lousy HVAC system.  The rest of the truck sees a lot of detail improvements, and some of the changes are for easier upfits.  And there is the transition to all Cummins-based engines.  Freightliner is moving in the right direction.

 

Compared to the F-650 and 750 I would say it's better in all respects, and in some areas substantially.  The Freightliner is, however, more expensive.  

 

My only gripes about the M2 refresh is I wish they went a little further on the exterior changes and the interior trim panels are HARD plastic.  I mean HARD.  (Specifically door trims and the dash.)  Supposedly this is due their new heftier, more durable materials which I will admit you can feel when the panels are removed and set next to the old M2's trim pieces.   I do feel like there was a way to make them a little softer to the touch though, but I'm picky about that. 

 

As far as the price, yeah, a fair amount higher than the Ford we've covered all the reasons why.    Here are some real pics of the new interior....

[GearheadGrrrl]

M2s were always plasticy, got assigned a rental M2 one night around 2007 and couldn't find a power socket or even some bare metal to attach a ground clamp to so I could hook up my radios.  As for the "pickup truck feel", that's scary- A big truck should let you know that you have to drive it with respect for it's high center of gravity and skinny tires!

[iamweasel]

11 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

M2s were always plasticy, got assigned a rental M2 one night around 2007 and couldn't find a power socket or even some bare metal to attach a ground clamp to so I could hook up my radios.  As for the "pickup truck feel", that's scary- A big truck should let you know that you have to drive it with respect for it's high center of gravity and skinny tires!

 

Note the numerous power outlets on those pics I just posted on each side of the radio.  (Both 12V and USB.)  Your rental not having it is more about the person who spec'd it rather than the truck not complying with your wishes. 

[Bob Rosadini]

1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

M2s were always plasticy, got assigned a rental M2 one night around 2007 and couldn't find a power socket or even some bare metal to attach a ground clamp to so I could hook up my radios.  As for the "pickup truck feel", that's scary- A big truck should let you know that you have to drive it with respect for it's high center of gravity and skinny tires!

 

Wait, I thought that was a negative as far as  Fords go??

But again, have no fear, you won't see Ford do anything to improve their position...too busy getting ready for Formula One.

Cost for that will make Nascar budget look like a bargain I would bet.  But one of my sons tells me there are a lot of people in US that are big F-1 fans. Unfortunately I would imagine they mostly drive Bimmers...Leased of course

 

PS Did see a heavy 750 today ..Big contractor utility bucket truck with a couple of cable spools on it .  The two  big dogs around here- National Grid and Eversource seem to be using a lot of contractors.  And you will them along side the utility crews on the same major street project.

[7Mary3]

Freightliner finally ditched that instrument cluster left over from the 'Business Class' FL days along with the Chrysler sourced dash vents.