New Light & Medium Duty News

[Bob Rosadini]

4 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

The Mack MD seems to be doing well to me, just based on the number I am seeing.  I assume it's priced competitively with Freightliner and International.  

 

And also for what it's worth, I am seeing very few Ford F-650's with the 7.3L gas V-8.  Maybe Ford is having second thoughts about making air brakes available on gas engine trucks due to sales volume?

 

Ford is really pushing class 3-4-5 and Transit commercial sales to small fleets these days.    

 

After reading your post,  just today I picked up the Truck/Equipment  flyer that is published every two weeks here in New England and checked the Ford dealer adds.  Only 4 650's advertised and all four were 7.3's.   I have to say that is the first time I have seen that- usually Power Strokes.  And again if 600's are selling, the dealers around here seem to be sticking to 550's-which surprises me.  

[Joe771476]

Well I stated here a while back I saw a white (new color scheme) F series medium duty with a CT DOT orange stripe coming off an exit. I wasn't sure if I was hallucinating since the CT DOT hasn't bough a medium duty Ford since Ford sold the class 8 biz in 1996/1997. But I spotted it again on an overhead bridge on a construction site.  So I looped around, got up to it and saw F750 on the cowl. The driver looked at me like I had two heads and I was being waved through so I didn't get a clear view of the engine insignia which was very small. But I'm 99% sure it was NOT a Cummins insignia.  I'm going to the nearby DOT garage and I'm going to make some inquiries there or with DOT headquarters.

[Joe771476]

On 6/5/2023 at 9:45 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

Joe-Sany is a large Chinese co.  Never knew they built anything here.

I should have known it wasn't American.

[Joe771476]

On 6/5/2023 at 2:22 PM, 7Mary3 said:

This just in:

 

https://news.gm.com/newsroom.detail.html/Pages/news/us/en/2023/jun/0605-flint.html

 

 

It says 2023 Silverado HD was best selling HD truck. What do they mean by HD?  Obviously it must stand for Heavy Duty, but I laugh when I see these claims and others like the JD Power awards.  They find these little niches. I mean it's like "The best selling vehicles on March 4th at 4:47 PM on a Tuesday while it was raining and a squirrel walked across Main St. Boston. Ridiculous.  Here in Connecticut, almost every class 1 thru 5 truck is a Ford. Dodge/Ram seemed to have been gaining here, but from personal observations, they've slipped by the wayside. I'm even seeing less Ram and more Ford TOW trucks which had been the opposite in the past.  Do we live in the Twilight Zone here in New England?  Is Ford being battered outside the northeast?

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

It says 2023 Silverado HD was best selling HD truck. What do they mean by HD?  Obviously it must stand for Heavy Duty, but I laugh when I see these claims and others like the JD Power awards.  They find these little niches. I mean it's like "The best selling vehicles on March 4th at 4:47 PM on a Tuesday while it was raining and a squirrel walked across Main St. Boston. Ridiculous. 

You don’t understand 250/350/2500/3500 pickups?

 

Its the opposite of a niche market.

Edited June 17, 2023 by akirby

[twintornados]

2 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

....I'm going to the nearby DOT garage and I'm going to make some inquiries there or with DOT headquarters.

 

Oh boy...someone is gettin' arrested....lol

[Bob Rosadini]

11 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Well I stated here a while back I saw a white (new color scheme) F series medium duty with a CT DOT orange stripe coming off an exit. I wasn't sure if I was hallucinating since the CT DOT hasn't bough a medium duty Ford since Ford sold the class 8 biz in 1996/1997. But I spotted it again on an overhead bridge on a construction site.  So I looped around, got up to it and saw F750 on the cowl. The driver looked at me like I had two heads and I was being waved through so I didn't get a clear view of the engine insignia which was very small. But I'm 99% sure it was NOT a Cummins insignia.  I'm going to the nearby DOT garage and I'm going to make some inquiries there or with DOT headquarters.

 

Joe  if it is a new 750 you will only see one of two badges....chrome "V-8" emblem for 7.3 power or "6.7 Powerstroke"

[Joe771476]

On 6/14/2023 at 9:23 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

 

After reading your post,  just today I picked up the Truck/Equipment  flyer that is published every two weeks here in New England and checked the Ford dealer adds.  Only 4 650's advertised and all four were 7.3's.   I have to say that is the first time I have seen that- usually Power Strokes.  And again if 600's are selling, the dealers around here seem to be sticking to 550's-which surprises me.  

Bob, I was watching American Pickers and they were at a former Ford dealership established in 1913. So there was a lot of Ford memorabilia. The guy had a 1966 Bronco U13, light green bordering on turquoise with 29,000 miles. It had a white canvas or plastic attachment to enclose the vehicle including the missing doors. American Pickers paid $30,000 for it.  Who made out better?

[tbone]

After seeing this announcement, I wondered if GM was considering using the same approach Ford has with their mediums by using more homegrown powertrains, and they needed the production capacity to support it.  
 

GM To Invest $920M At DMAX Plant For Heavy-Duty Truck Engine Production

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/06/gm-to-invest-920m-at-dmax-plant-for-heavy-duty-truck-engine-production/amp/

 

[tbone]

On 6/17/2023 at 12:08 PM, akirby said:

You don’t understand 250/350/2500/3500 pickups?

 

It’s the opposite of a niche market.

Yes, it is, but that claim is awfully suspect.  

[ausrutherford]

JMC Debuted its new electric cabover line:

 

https://m.360che.com/news/230615/181111.html

 

You can also see the new, facelifted Transit in the background that follows newer Ford truck designs. I wonder if we will get it as well. 

[Bob Rosadini]

15 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Bob, I was watching American Pickers and they were at a former Ford dealership established in 1913. So there was a lot of Ford memorabilia. The guy had a 1966 Bronco U13, light green bordering on turquoise with 29,000 miles. It had a white canvas or plastic attachment to enclose the vehicle including the missing doors. American Pickers paid $30,000 for it.  Who made out better?

IM O, all depends on condition of body.  Given fact they were rust buckets, the price reflects the mileage-if correct, and I would guess body was fair to good.

But the more I watch BJ and Mecom the more confused I get on values.

[twintornados]

4 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

JMC Debuted its new electric cabover line:

 

https://m.360che.com/news/230615/181111.html

 

You can also see the new, facelifted Transit in the background that follows newer Ford truck designs. I wonder if we will get it as well. 

 

You mean this one? Even has the Ford logo in the grill.

 

 

 

[ausrutherford]

14 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

You mean this one? Even has the Ford logo in the grill.

 

 

 

 

JMC models are also Fords too....

[7Mary3]

On 6/18/2023 at 10:52 AM, tbone said:

After seeing this announcement, I wondered if GM was considering using the same approach Ford has with their mediums by using more homegrown powertrains, and they needed the production capacity to support it.  
 

GM To Invest $920M At DMAX Plant For Heavy-Duty Truck Engine Production

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/06/gm-to-invest-920m-at-dmax-plant-for-heavy-duty-truck-engine-production/amp/

 

 

I was thinking that myself.  GM does not appear to have a problem making enough Duramax diesels to keep up with current demand. 

[Rick73]

3 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

 

JMC models are also Fords too....

Is the smaller van in background between larger van and JMC a Ford also?   I can’t tell what it is — does not look familiar to me.

[ausrutherford]

38 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Is the smaller van in background between larger van and JMC a Ford also?   I can’t tell what it is — does not look familiar to me.

 

That is a new electric JMC branded van they just released: https://www.jmc.com.cn/brand.html?brand_id=701&car_category=2

 

 

[tbone]

5 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

I was thinking that myself.  GM does not appear to have a problem making enough Duramax diesels to keep up with current demand. 

Yes, I wasn’t aware of any issues meeting demand for their 2500 3500 models.  

[Bob Rosadini]

Guys...Reference this....if GM was considering using the same approach Ford has with their mediums by using more homegrown powertrains, and they needed the production capacity to support it.  ..

 

Isn't GM already using nothing but homegrown power trains??  No Cummins, No Cat...as opposed to Ford that DID offer Cummins and Cat and Allison and now there IS no choice.  Which as we all recognize is the result of Ford's commitment to avoid purchasing anything that deprives them of the profit margin from internal production

 

Or is the thought here that GM could make more money if their vehicle volume was higher to move more Duramax engines....as they are so profitable.   By the way, how is that Isuzu/GM pie split up?

 

 

[7Mary3]

47 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Guys...Reference this....if GM was considering using the same approach Ford has with their mediums by using more homegrown powertrains, and they needed the production capacity to support it.  ..

 

Isn't GM already using nothing but homegrown power trains??  No Cummins, No Cat...as opposed to Ford that DID offer Cummins and Cat and Allison and now there IS no choice.  Which as we all recognize is the result of Ford's commitment to avoid purchasing anything that deprives them of the profit margin from internal production

 

Or is the thought here that GM could make more money if their vehicle volume was higher to move more Duramax engines....as they are so profitable.   By the way, how is that Isuzu/GM pie split up?

 

 

 

You can get a Cummins/Allison powertrain in Chevy 6500 and 7500 LCF's.  These are Chevy-badged Isuzu FTR/FVR's built by the Shyft Group in Charlotte MI,,  No idea if GM (and Isuzu) is looking to replace the Cummins with the 6.6L Duramax in those trucks.

 

The DMAX plants that produce the 6.6L Duramax is owned 60% by GM and 40% by Isuzu. 

[Rick73]

5 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

 

That is a new electric JMC branded van they just released: https://www.jmc.com.cn/brand.html?brand_id=701&car_category=2

 

 

Thanks.  Size appears similar to Transit Custom.  Battery capacity isn’t great but probably adequate for densely populated areas.

[Bob Rosadini]

On 6/19/2023 at 10:01 PM, 7Mary3 said:

 

You can get a Cummins/Allison powertrain in Chevy 6500 and 7500 LCF's.  These are Chevy-badged Isuzu FTR/FVR's built by the Shyft Group in Charlotte MI,,  No idea if GM (and Isuzu) is looking to replace the Cummins with the 6.6L Duramax in those trucks.

 

The DMAX plants that produce the 6.6L Duramax is owned 60% by GM and 40% by Isuzu. 

7M..thx i was just thinking about the JV 45-6500 conventionals.  Forgot about the Cabovers.  IMO they would be going backward to replace Cummins with a Duramax.

Ford should be so smart!

[7Mary3]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

7M..thx i was just thinking about the JV 45-6500 conventionals.  Forgot about the Cabovers.  IMO they would be going backward to replace Cummins with a Duramax.

Ford should be so smart!

 

Unless they can't get Cummins engines.  Still can't see that happening, they just engineered the Cummins into the big Isuzu cabover and with Isuzu being a Cummins partner, I would think they would not have issues getting B6.7's.

 

Something is going on though.  Even if they completely close the Moraine DMAX plant the expansion to the Brookville plant looks to add 50% or better capacity overall.  That's a lot of engines.

 

[iamweasel]

4 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

Unless they can't get Cummins engines.  Still can't see that happening, they just engineered the Cummins into the big Isuzu cabover and with Isuzu being a Cummins partner, I would think they would not have issues getting B6.7's.

 

Something is going on though.  Even if they completely close the Moraine DMAX plant the expansion to the Brookville plant looks to add 50% or better capacity overall.  That's a lot of engines.

 

 

Isuzu definitely is having trouble getting enough B6.7's.  3 of the stores I manage have Isuzu and we are only getting a handful of F-Series/Cummins trucks this year, and it takes 6-12 months to build them after they get ordered.  I don't think Isuzu is real happy with Cummins right now because they feel Cummins is giving other OEM's more than their fair share.

 

As far as Mack, they will sell what they can produce right now just due to the fact there is still more demand than supply.  We still have 6-9 month wait lists for M2's at nearly every location my company has and we've "lost" a couple deals to Mack only because they could get a truck a lot faster.

 

The Mack cab itself is pretty awful, honestly.  Real small inside compared to some others so in an open market environment I don't think they will be able to compete very well unless they just go crazy low on the pricing.  (They also have far less buildable combinations/options compared to others.)   We actually had one customer who took delivery of one last month and was really disappointed with how small the cab was.  They only had FTL's and INTL's previously and just thought all medium duty truck cabs were about the same size.  Nope....

[7Mary3]

Some things never change, I remember years ago being in a new Mack RD (maybe one of the last ones built) and thinking how old and small the cab was.....  But I still liked the truck!

 

I know about the Cummins B6.7/Allison being the preferred medium duty powertrain of many fleets, but given that Isuzu owns 40% of the DMAX plant(s) maybe they would have been smart to use the 6.6L Duramax in the FTR/FVR.

 

Maybe GM sees the supply issues truck builders are having with Cummins B6.7's, and figures they can sell them a few Duramax's.  Yeah Ford tried to get other OEM's interested in the 6.7L Powerstroke a few years back but it was married to a Ford transmission.  At least the Duramax mates to Allison transmissions.  International and Isuzu would seem to be likely customers.

 

Heard a rumor the 2024 Silverado medium duty trucks will get an update.  Can't see that alone being reason enough for such an increase in Duramax 6.6L production, even if they added a class 6/7 version.