New Light & Medium Duty News

[7Mary3]

I can't believe Ford spent the money to bring the E-550 to market only to drop it in about 6 months.  Don't think they gave it much of a chance.  Either that truck had a serious problem or it was the victim of some internal fight within Ford.  Very typical Ford.....  

[Rick73]

On 4/23/2023 at 8:48 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

I think it was the solid front axle that gave them that look.Another good idea that just started catching on and Ford dropped it.

I’ve never seen one in person, but pictures of the E-550 suggests it was quite a bit taller than my E-Series, probably in part because of the larger 19.5-inch wheels and tires, solid front axle, and leaf springs.  Comparing E-550 frame height to top of taller tires, I’d guess it was around 6 inches higher.

 

Perhaps if Ford is able to use smaller 17.5-inch wheels and tires (same diameter as present E-350 SRW) and coil-spring front suspension similar to F-550, they may be able to increase GVWR while maintaining total height close to present E-350/450.

[7Mary3]

Ford needs to offer something like this:

 

https://www.truckinginfo.com/10197740/daimler-announces-rizon-medium-duty-electric-truck-brand

 

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

Ford needs to offer something like this:

 

https://www.truckinginfo.com/10197740/daimler-announces-rizon-medium-duty-electric-truck-brand

 

 

Most definitely 7Mary3. There's incredible growth nowadays in the BEV medium duty truck market. In addition to Daimler's announcement in the Class 4 and 5 segments, today Navistar announced that its eMV BEV truck reached a milestone. Navistar delivered its first all-electric Class 6 refrigerated eMV straight truck to Houston based food distributor Sysco. Navistar Delivers First International® eMV™ Series with ePower to Sysco - Apr 28, 2023

[bzcat]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

Ford needs to offer something like this:

 

https://www.truckinginfo.com/10197740/daimler-announces-rizon-medium-duty-electric-truck-brand

 

 

Looks like they are taking Fuso eCanter and rebranding it for the US market.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Dumb marketing- Potential buyer will think it's vaporware from another incredible disappearing EV maker. Unless maybe Daimler expects it to fail and doesn't want to spoil their Freightliner or Mercedes brands good(?) name by associating with it?

[7Mary3]

3 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Looks like they are taking Fuso eCanter and rebranding it for the US market.

 

Exactly.  It's Daimler Truck's response to the Isuzu and Hino BEV LCF's.

[rperez817]

On 4/28/2023 at 7:37 PM, bzcat said:

Looks like they are taking Fuso eCanter and rebranding it for the US market.

 

On 4/28/2023 at 10:50 PM, 7Mary3 said:

Exactly.  It's Daimler Truck's response to the Isuzu and Hino BEV LCF's.

 

Mitsubishi Fuso Truck of America announced about 3 years ago the discontinuation of new truck sales for the U.S. and Canada markets in favor of service, parts, and remarketing only operations. The company did sell new Fuso eCanter trucks in low volume between 2017 and 2020 in U.S. and Canada. 

 

 

The new Rizon brand represents a good way for Daimler Truck AG to re-introduce eCanter to these markets. 

[iamweasel]

The Fuso brand is pretty tarnished in the US now as the trucks at the end of their run were very problematic, so I think part of the reason for the new brand name is to disassociate themselves from the "old" Fuso.

 

Plus, also note the new twist where DTNA is giving up ownership of the distribution network.  I don't recall any other arrangement like this in the truck business.  

[7Mary3]

3 hours ago, iamweasel said:

The Fuso brand is pretty tarnished in the US now as the trucks at the end of their run were very problematic, so I think part of the reason for the new brand name is to disassociate themselves from the "old" Fuso.

 

Plus, also note the new twist where DTNA is giving up ownership of the distribution network.  I don't recall any other arrangement like this in the truck business.  

 

It is interesting Velocity will be handling distribution.  They are large and located in the right places for something like this.

[GearheadGrrrl]

1.  Penske wanted to do something similar with the Saturn brand, and in some parts of the US Toyota sells through a distributor. 

 

2.  Location is everything in selling electric trucks- The costs don't "pencil out" without rich state subsidies like California, etc. offers.

[iamweasel]

2 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

1.  Penske wanted to do something similar with the Saturn brand, and in some parts of the US Toyota sells through a distributor. 

 

2.  Location is everything in selling electric trucks- The costs don't "pencil out" without rich state subsidies like California, etc. offers.

 

Toyota does have sham-distributors, and they may not be the only one with that setup but the big difference is Toyota Corp still appoints their own dealers and handles the dealer network.  Distributors like Gulf States Toyota, etc, do not handle that aspect of the business.  

 

In this case Velocity, a DTNA dealer, will determine which other dealers across the country get to sell the Rizon truck.   That's the part  I don't recall seeing before.   Velocity could appoint a Kenworth dealer in North Dakota to sell the Rizon if they wanted to....

[bzcat]

On 4/28/2023 at 6:24 PM, GearheadGrrrl said:

Dumb marketing- Potential buyer will think it's vaporware from another incredible disappearing EV maker. Unless maybe Daimler expects it to fail and doesn't want to spoil their Freightliner or Mercedes brands good(?) name by associating with it?

 

I guess the unique distribution deal is the reason why it couldn't be sold as Freightliner. 

 

But I agree with you that the name is pretty horrible. Makes me think this is a fly by night Chinese brand with no track record.

[Bob Rosadini]

Someone told me Penske had a major position in distributing Hino trucks.. This is old info going back to debut of the class 6/7 conventionals.

Fact or fiction?

[iamweasel]

16 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Someone told me Penske had a major position in distributing Hino trucks.. This is old info going back to debut of the class 6/7 conventionals.

Fact or fiction?

 

Penske bought a 25% stake in Hino's US operations back in the early 2000's I believe, and I remember at the time there was talk about that arrangement helping to increase the distribution of Hino at that time.  Ultimately, the # of Hino dealers in the US has been pretty flat over the years so it seems the main benefit to Hino was that Penske Truck Leasing ended up buying a bunch of them.   Aside from that, I don't see or know of any improvements on the distribution side.

 

Heck, over the past couple years the # of Hino stores has been shrinking.  They are having major problems these days.  I know of at least one dealer group who is strongly considering kicking Hino to the curb.  The time and effort to manage that franchise is not worth the tiny profit it generates.  They are a niche player who is struggling mightily to get engines and actually build trucks.

[7Mary3]

3 hours ago, iamweasel said:

 

Penske bought a 25% stake in Hino's US operations back in the early 2000's I believe, and I remember at the time there was talk about that arrangement helping to increase the distribution of Hino at that time.  Ultimately, the # of Hino dealers in the US has been pretty flat over the years so it seems the main benefit to Hino was that Penske Truck Leasing ended up buying a bunch of them.   Aside from that, I don't see or know of any improvements on the distribution side.

 

Heck, over the past couple years the # of Hino stores has been shrinking.  They are having major problems these days.  I know of at least one dealer group who is strongly considering kicking Hino to the curb.  The time and effort to manage that franchise is not worth the tiny profit it generates.  They are a niche player who is struggling mightily to get engines and actually build trucks.

 

Hino's emissions scandal cost them dearly, and not offering any new trucks for sale for nearly a year really soured many dealers on the brand.  I have not seen very many new Hino's on the road at all, and the dealers near me that sell them seem to have very few to none in stock.  

[iamweasel]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

Hino's emissions scandal cost them dearly, and not offering any new trucks for sale for nearly a year really soured many dealers on the brand.  I have not seen very many new Hino's on the road at all, and the dealers near me that sell them seem to have very few to none in stock.  

 

You'd think after what happened with VW the remaining OEM's would be more careful with their emissions program, but Hino willingly broke the rules.  I don't get it....were they seriously thinking they'd get away with it?   

 

But yeah, Hino' (and Isuzu FTR's) both have Cummins now and Cummins has drastically reduced their allocations.  Cummins is doing more for their biggest customers like DTNA, International, PACCAR, etc.  From the folks I know with Hino stores, they are only getting about 10% of what they used to get per year production-wise.  Hino's plant is barely running....there are people amongst the dealers I know that think unless something changes quickly they wouldn't be surprised if Hino shuts it all down and leaves the US.  

 

Hope you already got the return on your investment you wanted, Roger. 

[7Mary3]

52 minutes ago, iamweasel said:

 

You'd think after what happened with VW the remaining OEM's would be more careful with their emissions program, but Hino willingly broke the rules.  I don't get it....were they seriously thinking they'd get away with it?   

 

But yeah, Hino' (and Isuzu FTR's) both have Cummins now and Cummins has drastically reduced their allocations.  Cummins is doing more for their biggest customers like DTNA, International, PACCAR, etc.  From the folks I know with Hino stores, they are only getting about 10% of what they used to get per year production-wise.  Hino's plant is barely running....there are people amongst the dealers I know that think unless something changes quickly they wouldn't be surprised if Hino shuts it all down and leaves the US.  

 

Hope you already got the return on your investment you wanted, Roger. 

 

Kind of funny, I hear DMAX, the joint GM/Isuzu venture that produces the Duramax V-8, is considering a very large plant expansion at their Brookville facility.  It's for a 'future program', I wonder they are looking to supply other OEM's.

 

https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/new-details-port-authority-exec-gmdmax-expansion-in-brookville-may-siphon-jobs-from-moraine/XUE6I7REGJH33HNQ5MUSVNPOCM/

 

Daimler Truck is smart to tool up and produce their own Cummins based engines.  They saw what's coming.

Edited May 3, 2023 by 7Mary3

[GearheadGrrrl]

After several truck makers tried to dump Cummins in favor of their own engines, it good to see them come back to Cummins begging for engines!

[Bob Rosadini]

And seeing as we are speaking of Hino,  just thinking about their class 8 announcement...how many  years ago?  But I'll say this much..they seem to be doing well here in central, eastern Mass..  I know what the sales figures show but my observations on the road say otherwise.  I thought their shutdown for how many months would be very good for Ford and maybe  make it tough for Hino to bounce back  but I guess not.

[iamweasel]

11 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

After several truck makers tried to dump Cummins in favor of their own engines, it good to see them come back to Cummins begging for engines!

 

11 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

After several truck makers tried to dump Cummins in favor of their own engines, it good to see them come back to Cummins begging for engines!

 

 

Why? Cummins is not a good company to work with and they screw over customers and dealers left and right.  That's why everyone has tried to leave them.  Amongst other things, they don't pay squat on warranty claims and they will also put band-aid after band-aid on a truck before fixing it the right way.   

 

 

[7Mary3]

The only reason Cummins got so much business back is because very few of the OEM's want to spend money on diesel engine development and emission compliance.  Ford and GM will to support their light truck business for the foreseeable future.  The commercial truck OEM's are spending their R&D money on BEV's and fuel cells.

[iamweasel]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

The only reason Cummins got so much business back is because very few of the OEM's want to spend money on diesel engine development and emission compliance.  Ford and GM will to support their light truck business for the foreseeable future.  The commercial truck OEM's are spending their R&D money on BEV's and fuel cells.

 

100% correct.  When DTNA told us about the upcoming "sunset" of the DD5/DD8 engines this was exactly the reason why.  The DD13/15/16 already overshot some upcoming regulations and burn cleaner than most of their competitors, so it isn't going to take as much effort to certify those in the coming years.  That's one of the big reasons those engines will continue for a while.  (Plus I'm sure the volume/profits on those engines is much higher than the DD5/DD8.)

[Joe771476]

On 5/1/2023 at 10:06 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

Someone told me Penske had a major position in distributing Hino trucks.. This is old info going back to debut of the class 6/7 conventionals.

Fact or fiction?

I haven't seen a Hino in the last year or two!  They used to be all over the place here in New England.

[7Mary3]

I see a lot of old ones but no new Hino's.  Now hearing rumors that Toyota may spin Hino off.