New Light & Medium Duty News

[bzcat]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Haven’t been able to find numbers but F series and Silvererra combined are usually very close every year so I think it would still be close to 50/50.

 

Also note that chart was from 2017.

 

GM has outsold Ford the last couple of years but for many years in the 2000s and early 2010s, Ford did in fact outsell the GM twins combined. Mostly on the strength of Ford's dominance in fleet and the fact F-series included medium duty 450 and 550 sales. GM as we know, didn't have anything in the 450/550 class until recently. 

[Bob Rosadini]

Looking at figures Antaus just posted looks like the 22% gain in medium trucks is all 650/750 as the  OAP  production of 550/600 is all reported under Super Duty sales.

[rmc523]

On 7/5/2023 at 10:52 AM, akirby said:

 

 

How do you have "no top selling pickups" in CT and NJ, when it's literally a list of which one sells the most in that state.....?  Not like they sold 0....

 

23 hours ago, akirby said:

Haven’t been able to find numbers but F series and Silvererra combined are usually very close every year so I think it would still be close to 50/50.

 

Also note that chart was from 2017.

 

I have combined Silvererra numbers vs. F-series for the last couple of years.  I'll have to look when I get home, but IIRC, GM did retake the overall lead a few years ago, but yes, there was several years there where F-series outsold both.

[akirby]

2 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

How do you have "no top selling pickups" in CT and NJ, when it's literally a list of which one sells the most in that state.....?  Not like they sold 0....

You read it wrong like I did.  It’s actually “which of the top 4 selling pickups sold the most”.  The top seller in CT and NJ was not one of those 4.

 

Seems like a silly way to do it.  Just name the top seller period.

[rmc523]

5 minutes ago, akirby said:

You read it wrong like I did.  It’s actually “which of the top 4 selling pickups sold the most”.  The top seller in CT and NJ was not one of those 4.

 

Seems like a silly way to do it.  Just name the top seller period.

 

Sounds stupid to me.

[rperez817]

7 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

How do you have "no top selling pickups" in CT and NJ, when it's literally a list of which one sells the most in that state.....?  Not like they sold 0....

 

4 minutes ago, akirby said:

You read it wrong like I did.  It’s actually “which of the top 4 selling pickups sold the most”.  The top seller in CT and NJ was not one of those 4.

 

Here is the Cars.com article from which the 2017 map akirby shared is sourced, and an explanation for certain states like Connecticut and New Jersey that have "no top selling pickups". Top-Selling Pickup Trucks by State | Cars.com

 

Interestingly, as some might expect, there are a few states that don’t have a single pickup truck in their top 10 sellers; we’ve noted which states they are in the graphic.

 

[7Mary3]

Back to the 650/750, I really think now Ford should stick to the configurations they have, I doubt a tandem axle or Cummins option would get them any meaningful increase in sales.  However, something that might be able to help sales of these trucks would be adding the Allison 2500 and 3000 series transmissions to the option list.  Ford would be able to offer a lot more P.T.O. configurations with Allison transmissions.  The 6.7L Powerstroke is fine and very comparable overall to the Cummins ISB, and Ford would likely have a hard time getting engines from Cummins anyway.

 

Did air brakes for the 7.3L gas engine make it to the option list yet?  I see very few new 650's and 750's with the 7.3L.   

[Joe771476]

10 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Back to the 650/750, I really think now Ford should stick to the configurations they have, I doubt a tandem axle or Cummins option would get them any meaningful increase in sales.  However, something that might be able to help sales of these trucks would be adding the Allison 2500 and 3000 series transmissions to the option list.  Ford would be able to offer a lot more P.T.O. configurations with Allison transmissions.  The 6.7L Powerstroke is fine and very comparable overall to the Cummins ISB, and Ford would likely have a hard time getting engines from Cummins anyway.

 

Did air brakes for the 7.3L gas engine make it to the option list yet?  I see very few new 650's and 750's with the 7.3L.   

Actually I'd like to see a tandem since Freightliner went out of their way to get CT to buy them because Ford doesn't make them.......yet!  Teach Freightliner a hard lesson!

[Joe771476]

On 7/5/2023 at 12:25 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Joe,

Well based on'23 order guide you can get a 750 with  14,000 lb front axle and a 26,000 rear, which everything else being proper should give you a 40,000 GVW.  but even with those axles max GVW you can get is 37,000.  But as a practical matter, IMO I don 't think the 6.7 Power Stroke is up to that service and the Torque Shift trans even less so.

The 550 with that power train is very popular around here with DPW's as they are "nimble" and good for cleaning up intersections and handling typical nuisance 4" snow falls but I can't see the 750 in a "conga line" on an interstate.

Thanks Bob for that, but haven't I seen instances where Ford has made a small number of class 8's?  How hard would it be?

[Joe771476]

On 7/6/2023 at 12:36 PM, akirby said:

You read it wrong like I did.  It’s actually “which of the top 4 selling pickups sold the most”.  The top seller in CT and NJ was not one of those 4.

 

Seems like a silly way to do it.  Just name the top seller period.

So what is the top seller? Toyota?  No way!

[rperez817]

5 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

So what is the top seller? Toyota?  No way!

 

Yes way. Toyota RAV4 is the best seller in Connecticut and Honda CR-V the best seller in New Jersey for retail sales overall. Don't know about the top selling pickup trucks or commercial vehicles in those states.

[Bob Rosadini]

23 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Back to the 650/750, I really think now Ford should stick to the configurations they have, I doubt a tandem axle or Cummins option would get them any meaningful increase in sales.  However, something that might be able to help sales of these trucks would be adding the Allison 2500 and 3000 series transmissions to the option list.  Ford would be able to offer a lot more P.T.O. configurations with Allison transmissions.  The 6.7L Powerstroke is fine and very comparable overall to the Cummins ISB, and Ford would likely have a hard time getting engines from Cummins anyway.

 

Did air brakes for the 7.3L gas engine make it to the option list yet?  I see very few new 650's and 750's with the 7.3L.   

7M,

Agree  100% on the trans issue.   Like I said previously,  the Power Stroke may be a turn off for some buyers but not to the degree that the transmission is.  As for a tandem, I can't see that as a high cost item to add. There are plenty of applications where a tandem serves as a platform with some sort of processing unit such as a Vactor, crane hydro  seeder, etc.  Chassis gets the unit to job site where it then sits for better part of day while auxiliary power unit powers the equipment.  Remember "back in the day, Ford offered tandems down to a T-700.  I think it was a 28,000 lb set up

Oh and my dealer source  says 24 order guide should be out in next 7-10 days

[Bob Rosadini]

9 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes way. Toyota RAV4 is the best seller in Connecticut and Honda CR-V the best seller in New Jersey for retail sales overall. Don't know about the top selling pickup trucks or commercial vehicles in those states.

 

I thought we were talking trucks??

[Bob Rosadini]

14 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Thanks Bob for that, but haven't I seen instances where Ford has made a small number of class 8's?  How hard would it be?

The 750 can go as high as 37,000 lb GVW which is a class 8 but I  don't think it is reported as such.  Just as in the old days of the GM mediums.  You could get a Chevy or GMC that exceeded 33,000 lbs but when HDT was publishing monthly stats, they never reported any GM class 8  sales if my memory is correct.

[rperez817]

20 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

I thought we were talking trucks??

 

That's correct Bob Rosadini. The context for Joe771476's question relates to data Cars.com collected for the top selling pickup trucks in each U.S. state back in 2017. 2 states, Connecticut and New Jersey, didn't have any trucks among the top 10 best selling vehicles that year. Cars.com did not say which pickup truck model was the best seller in those states but did indicate the models that captured the #1 position for vehicle sales overall (Toyota RAV4 in Connecticut and Honda CR-V in New Jersey).

[akirby]

On 7/11/2023 at 8:06 AM, Joe771476 said:

So what is the top seller? Toyota?  No way!

As rperez explained there were no pickups in the top 10 sellers for those states.  It was a stupid way to interpret the data.

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

As rperez explained there were no pickups in the top 10 sellers for those states.  It was a stupid way to interpret the data.

 

Or just a lazy way of doing it...I see tons of Pickups in NJ.

 

[rmc523]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

As rperez explained there were no pickups in the top 10 sellers for those states.  It was a stupid way to interpret the data.

 

Yeah, stupid - let's make a list comparing the best selling truck in each state, and just leave off a couple states.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah, stupid - let's make a list comparing the best selling truck in each state, and just leave off a couple states.

I guarantee the author started with the list of the top 10 sellers in each state, then pulled out the pickups leaving blanks for some states instead of going back to find the top selling pickup period.  Very lazy.

[Chrisgb]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

I guarantee the author started with the list of the top 10 sellers in each state, then pulled out the pickups leaving blanks for some states instead of going back to find the top selling pickup period.  Very lazy.

No top selling PU's in CT or NJ means that all OEMs sold exactly the same number each, therefore there couldn't be a top seller that month

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Chrisgb said:

No top selling PU's in CT or NJ means that all OEMs sold exactly the same number each, therefore there couldn't be a top seller that month

That’s not what it said.  They only looked at the top 10 vehicles in each state and none of those were pickups.

[Chrisgb]

16 hours ago, akirby said:

That’s not what it said.  They only looked at the top 10 vehicles in each state and none of those were pickups.

That’s not what it says, although you are probably right. He/She likely didn’t use actual stat-by-state registration data to make the graphic. My response to your response to @rmc523 was deliberately preposterous. ?

 

[rperez817]

22 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

I see tons of Pickups in NJ.

 

However, you're likely to see even more pickup trucks if you visit any other U.S. state. New Jersey has the fewest pickup trucks as a proportion of all registered light vehicles, less than half the national average.

 

Ranking of States by Shares of Trucks- iSeeCars
Rank	State	% Trucks
1	Wyoming	37.1%
2	Montana	34.7%
3	North Dakota	31.6%
4	Idaho	29.8%
5	South Dakota	29.1%
6	Alaska	26.4%
7	West Virginia	25.5%
8	Maine	25.0%
9	Iowa	24.4%
10	Arkansas	24.3%
11	Vermont	24.2%
12	Nebraska	24.2%
13	Louisiana	23.9%
14	New Mexico	23.0%
15	Mississippi	23.0%
16	Kentucky	21.8%
17	Wisconsin	21.2%
18	Kansas	21.1%
19	Minnesota	20.7%
20	Alabama	20.3%
21	Oklahoma	19.9%
22	Utah	19.9%
23	Texas	19.7%
24	Colorado	19.3%
25	New Hampshire	19.3%
26	Missouri	18.8%
27	Tennessee	18.8%
28	Michigan	18.7%
29	South Carolina	18.5%
30	Washington	17.6%
31	Arizona	17.1%
32	Oregon	16.9%
National Average		16.7%
33	Indiana	16.0%
34	North Carolina	16.0%
35	Ohio	15.8%
36	Georgia	15.7%
37	Hawaii	15.3%
38	Pennsylvania	15.1%
39	Nevada	14.0%
40	Florida	13.8%
41	Virginia	13.7%
42	Rhode Island	13.6%
43	Delaware	13.5%
44	Illinois	12.9%
45	Massachusetts	12.5%
46	New York	12.1%
47	California	11.7%
48	Maryland	11.3%
49	Connecticut	10.6%
50	New Jersey	8.2%

[Chrisgb]

2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

However, you're likely to see even more pickup trucks if you visit any other U.S. state. New Jersey has the fewest pickup trucks as a proportion of all registered light vehicles, less than half the national average.

 

Ranking of States by Shares of Trucks- iSeeCars
Rank	State	% Trucks
1	Wyoming	37.1%
2	Montana	34.7%
3	North Dakota	31.6%
4	Idaho	29.8%
5	South Dakota	29.1%
6	Alaska	26.4%
7	West Virginia	25.5%
8	Maine	25.0%
9	Iowa	24.4%
10	Arkansas	24.3%
11	Vermont	24.2%
12	Nebraska	24.2%
13	Louisiana	23.9%
14	New Mexico	23.0%
15	Mississippi	23.0%
16	Kentucky	21.8%
17	Wisconsin	21.2%
18	Kansas	21.1%
19	Minnesota	20.7%
20	Alabama	20.3%
21	Oklahoma	19.9%
22	Utah	19.9%
23	Texas	19.7%
24	Colorado	19.3%
25	New Hampshire	19.3%
26	Missouri	18.8%
27	Tennessee	18.8%
28	Michigan	18.7%
29	South Carolina	18.5%
30	Washington	17.6%
31	Arizona	17.1%
32	Oregon	16.9%
National Average		16.7%
33	Indiana	16.0%
34	North Carolina	16.0%
35	Ohio	15.8%
36	Georgia	15.7%
37	Hawaii	15.3%
38	Pennsylvania	15.1%
39	Nevada	14.0%
40	Florida	13.8%
41	Virginia	13.7%
42	Rhode Island	13.6%
43	Delaware	13.5%
44	Illinois	12.9%
45	Massachusetts	12.5%
46	New York	12.1%
47	California	11.7%
48	Maryland	11.3%
49	Connecticut	10.6%
50	New Jersey	8.2%

I am surprised at how far down Texas is. I would bet that North Dakota is in the top 3 for number of utility and cargo trailers. If you see a pickup that's not pulling something, it looks like something's missing.

[bzcat]

2 hours ago, Chrisgb said:

I am surprised at how far down Texas is. I would bet that North Dakota is in the top 3 for number of utility and cargo trailers. If you see a pickup that's not pulling something, it looks like something's missing.

 

Texas is a big state with lots of vehicle sales and highly urbanized population (despite popular perception, it is one of the top urban states in terms of population distribution). The top 10 states with highest truck % are all rural states without big cities and all have tiny populations and miniscule overall vehicle sales, and quite a few of them are mining/farming states where commercial truck fleets probably accounts for significant portion of vehicle registration. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by bzcat