2013 Ford Fusion Hy. Ti. horrable MPG.

[captinkirk]

So I'm now past the "break in point" for the car and have started tracking fuel efficiency. I am getting NO WHERE near the 47 that ford is touting. I'm seeing more like 37 real world, ish. One thing that is surprising is while I am driving highway speeds, while maintaining speed, the car says it is accelerating and the MPG is often near 20. It doesn't go up to 40 until I am coasting. Any acceleration brings it down to 20 unless I am in EV mode then obviously it's 60 plus because I'm on battery. I dont have to be driving highway speed, any acceleration not on ev mode is at 20 or below. I am not impressed. I would like to see acceleration happen more quickly with EV mode. Accelerating in ev mode is not practical and often you have to kick some gas on when starting from a red light. I also would like to see EV mode be engaged over 63+ miles. They should have programmed it to stay on till you reach 80. Most highway speeds are between 65-75. I think gas mileage would be better if the car was able to maintain at least 75 with the battery. It could deplete the battery and recharge when needed especially on long road trips. Over all the car is great. I wish the mood lighting was brighter. Love the car, just wish ford could get the fuel mileage straight.

[nmadole]

My fusion hybrid se is at 30 mpg lifetime (7000 miles) .... I would feel lucky to be at 37mpg

[neod192]

How many miles do you have on yours? I'm at 480 miles and I see 35-40 on the instant MPG on mile once the engine is warmer up and battery charged. I have to be cruising at ~70MPH to see it and as soon as I touch the gas pedal, it goes back down to 20 mpg. But it will sustain the high speed and get close to 4o mpg.

Edited April 22, 2013 by neod192

[Bailey151]

Welcome to hybrids - not always easy to achieve optimum.

 

Maybe Jeff_h and some others with a fair bit of hybrid experience can chime in & give you some helpful tips.

[Delnatha]

I'm a little disappointed to. My hyti is averaging about 39 mpg over the first 800 miles. Also realize that I drive it very efficiently to the point where people are passing me all the time. I agree with the OP that on freeway you don't get over 40mpg unless you are coasting or going downhill, even at speeds below 60mph. So I'm not sure how Ford ever thought a 47mpg highway was possible. 47 should be what you get driving conservatively with more than 47 possible if you are driving it the way....I do.

 

It's also interesting to me that all Fusion hybrids are listed at 47mpg. I wonder how much of a difference there is between a stripped down hybrid SE and a loaded hybrid titanium in mpg.

[lolder]

In HEVs, ( not PHEVs ) all the energy comes from fuel. The "ICE-generator-charge-discharge-motor-wheels" energy path of the EV cycle has more loss than the "ICE-wheels" path so EV should be AVOIDED above 40-50 mph. Higher speeds cost 6 mpg per 10 mph. Lower temperatures cost 2 mpg per 10º F. Headwinds ( and some crosswinds ) cost up to 3mpg per 10 mph. Noisy roads can cost 2 mpg. Heavy rain can cost up to 10 mpg. AC can cost over 10 mpg for a few minutes in a heat soaked car tappering off to 1-2 mpg. These effects are mostly cumulative and the inverse effects are also true. If you drive at 75 mph in 30º F. temperature in Chicago you will get 13 mpg less than at 70 mph and 80º F. EPA highway tests are done at less than 60mph average and 60-70 º F.

[akirby]

I also would like to see EV mode be engaged over 63+ miles. They should have programmed it to stay on till you reach 80.

 

They didn't "program" it to stay in EV mode under 60 mph. It used to be 42 or 47 mph and with the gen 3 hybrid system it rose to 60 mph. It's the limitation of the technology. If it were possible to make it higher they would have. That's why the competition is still in the 40's.

[Delnatha]

They didn't "program" it to stay in EV mode under 60 mph. It used to be 42 or 47 mph and with the gen 3 hybrid system it rose to 60 mph. It's the limitation of the technology. If it were possible to make it higher they would have. That's why the competition is still in the 40's.

 

I can be driving down a gentle slope at 62mph and the EV kicks in. I can be driving down a steep slope at 63mph and take my foot off the gas and the EV won't kick in. That tells me it is programmed to stop at 62mph. I don't really have a problem with that but it seems like they could remove that. I should be able to roll downhill in EV mode at any speed if the hill is steep enough.

[akirby]

I can be driving down a gentle slope at 62mph and the EV kicks in. I can be driving down a steep slope at 63mph and take my foot off the gas and the EV won't kick in. That tells me it is programmed to stop at 62mph. I don't really have a problem with that but it seems like they could remove that. I should be able to roll downhill in EV mode at any speed if the hill is steep enough.

 

It's a technical limitation of the drivetrain. If it was easy to just "turn it off" or "turn it on" they would have already done it.

[captinkirk]

How many miles do you have on yours? I'm at 480 miles and I see 35-40 on the instant MPG on mile once the engine is warmer up and battery charged. I have to be cruising at ~70MPH to see it and as soon as I touch the gas pedal, it goes back down to 20 mpg. But it will sustain the high speed and get close to 4o mpg.

I'm at 1230 as of this morning. I drive atleast 130 miles a day. 65 miles (one way) to work.

[Bearcats98]

I can be driving down a gentle slope at 62mph and the EV kicks in. I can be driving down a steep slope at 63mph and take my foot off the gas and the EV won't kick in. That tells me it is programmed to stop at 62mph. I don't really have a problem with that but it seems like they could remove that. I should be able to roll downhill in EV mode at any speed if the hill is steep enough.

 

What do you think controls the technology? Programming. And if there is a limitation, yes, it WILL be programmed to keep things from getting damaged. The same way a fuel cut/shut off is programed at the upper limit of a rev limiter. To protect stuff.

[neod192]

It's a technical limitation of the drivetrain. If it was easy to just "turn it off" or "turn it on" they would have already done it.

They're doing it on the Energi. Same drivetrain, bigger battery and a few charging circuits.

Edited April 22, 2013 by neod192

[lolder]

It's true that the PHEV versions of Prii and FFHs have higher EV speeds and they probably have the same drivetrain. The limitation is the maximum RPM of "M/G1", the M/G connected to the sun gear of the eCVT. In the HEV version, you dont WANT to cycle in the EV mode at higher speeds as it is less efficient. See above. When you operate in EV mode at higher speeds, you start to get efficiency problems because of things like back electromotive force ( EMF ) which means you need higher voltages for efficiency. Ford has variable voltage controls on their 2nd and 3rd generation hybrids but there are diminishing returns with this feature. HEVs have very different design goals than PHEVs and a compromise car that does both is difficult. It's rumored that Toyota engineers did not want to make the Prius a PHEV for this reason but marketing over-ruled. The current crop of PHEVs are not very cost effective.

Edited April 22, 2013 by lolder

[jeff_h]

I'm at 1230 as of this morning. I drive atleast 130 miles a day. 65 miles (one way) to work.

 

This is about the same as my daily trip.

 

1) I wonder how much of each of roads you have during your drive (slow speeds with traffic lights, medium speed limits that meander through the country, or interstate)?

2) Of the interstate travel from above, what is your normal speed?

3) What have your temps been in the mornings, cold so that you run the heat right away?

4) What is your typical brake score on your trips? I've found that being smooth goes a long way to getting good MPG, as my trips normally have brake scores of 98% or 99% and I think lifetime is 98%.

 

There are also several threads on this in the hybrid forum, you might want to read up on things there too.

[captinkirk]

This is about the same as my daily trip.

 

1) I wonder how much of each of roads you have during your drive (slow speeds with traffic lights, medium speed limits that meander through the country, or interstate)?

2) Of the interstate travel from above, what is your normal speed?

3) What have your temps been in the mornings, cold so that you run the heat right away?

4) What is your typical brake score on your trips? I've found that being smooth goes a long way to getting good MPG, as my trips normally have brake scores of 98% or 99% and I think lifetime is 98%.

 

There are also several threads on this in the hybrid forum, you might want to read up on things there too.

1. 95 percent Highway 5 percent city.

2. 65-75 Mph

3. 40's to 60's. It is Chicago.

4. Typical BS is 95-100. I try to achieve a 100 when possible.

[LASooner]

Has anyone tried keeping track of their mileage without using the onboard computer?

[Serraph]

I can be driving down a gentle slope at 62mph and the EV kicks in. I can be driving down a steep slope at 63mph and take my foot off the gas and the EV won't kick in. That tells me it is programmed to stop at 62mph. I don't really have a problem with that but it seems like they could remove that. I should be able to roll downhill in EV mode at any speed if the hill is steep enough.

Since Ford and Toyota share the same techonolgy. There is a reason why the ICE kicks in over the threshold to protect the engine. Here is a simulator: I don't know the inner workings of the Ford hybrid system but I'm sure they share similarities.

 

http://eahart.com/prius/psd/

[jeff_h]

Has anyone tried keeping track of their mileage without using the onboard computer?

 

Yes, of my first 3 months of ownership (approx 60 commuting days) I tracked 41 days of morning and afternoon commutes (saved snapshots to photobucket), along with the outside temp during each morning and afternoon commute. I wanted to get some data on how the cold (and hot) weather affected MPG, and whether it affected it to a similar degree as my Prius or 2010 FFH. Cold weather sucks for MPG in the 2013 FFH, but also was the case in the others as well.

[jeff_h]

1. 95 percent Highway 5 percent city.

2. 65-75 Mph

3. 40's to 60's. It is Chicago.

4. Typical BS is 95-100. I try to achieve a 100 when possible.

 

I'm about 90% highway.

 

65-75 in my experience will yield the kind of MPG you noted when the car is still pretty new (first 1,000 miles or so) and then will improve somewhat but those speeds drive the MPG down.

 

Temps in the 60s seem to be great for MPG, at least in my experience, 40s may cause a small hit at the start if the heat is running.

 

95-100 is a good brake score, so how do you accelerate from a stop? I normally use EV up until about 10MPH and then hit the gas a bit more so the ICE kicks in. The analogy I think of (being from Chicago you can relate) is sledding in the snow with friends as a kid... was always tough to push my friends' fat cans from sitting still to get them going (so I use EV for that) but not quite as bad once they were going and more pushing was done to get them going faster down the hill (when I kick in the ICE at 10MPH). Whether you do this or not is up to you, but maybe sampling of the different behaviors might show a bit of a difference. It takes sampling of different behaviors to see what works and how to adapt one's driving style to the different type of car and get the best MPG.

[47Minutes]

It's true that the PHEV versions of Prii and FFHs have higher EV speeds and they probably have the same drivetrain. The limitation is the maximum RPM of "M/G1", the M/G connected to the sun gear of the eCVT. In the HEV version, you dont WANT to cycle in the EV mode at higher speeds as it is less efficient. See above. When you operate in EV mode at higher speeds, you start to get efficiency problems because of things like back electromotive force ( EMF ) which means you need higher voltages for efficiency. Ford has variable voltage controls on their 2nd and 3rd generation hybrids but there are diminishing returns with this feature. HEVs have very different design goals than PHEVs and a compromise car that does both is difficult. It's rumored that Toyota engineers did not want to make the Prius a PHEV for this reason but marketing over-ruled. The current crop of PHEVs are not very cost effective.

 

My guess is since the Energi is designed to achieve up to 85mph in EV mode that this is the threshold of it when operating as an HEV even though it is not as efficient at those higher speeds. My Energi, when my EV range has been depleted, will still enter EV mode when traveling well above the 62mph limitation in place on the plain HEV version. So it is a programming limitation based upon the physical ability of the particular drive train as it is designed. And less about the inherent inefficiency of EV at higher speeds.

[twintornados]

The title of this forum, horrible spelling.

[boogs]

Has anyone tried keeping track of their mileage without using the onboard computer?

Dont have a hybrid, but kept track manually for a few consecutive tanks. Pretty much spot on with the computer.

[boogs]

I'm a little disappointed to. My hyti is averaging about 39 mpg over the first 800 miles. Also realize that I drive it very efficiently to the point where people are passing me all the time. I agree with the OP that on freeway you don't get over 40mpg unless you are coasting or going downhill, even at speeds below 60mph. So I'm not sure how Ford ever thought a 47mpg highway was possible. 47 should be what you get driving conservatively with more than 47 possible if you are driving it the way....I do.

 

It's also interesting to me that all Fusion hybrids are listed at 47mpg. I wonder how much of a difference there is between a stripped down hybrid SE and a loaded hybrid titanium in mpg.

The EPA test are done at an average of 48mph, on a warmed up engine in free flowing "traffic". Of course going faster and in colder temps than that is going to hurt your mileage.

 

And what do you mean "stripped down SE vs. loaded titanium"? The cars are virtually identical except for leather seats and a couple extra buttons. Us SE owners aren't driving in bare metal interiors, ya know!

[Delnatha]

Ok, good point. What I really would like to know is how much of a difference larger wheels make

[JSKershaw]

Ok, good point. What I really would like to know is how much of a difference larger wheels make

None, I have the 18" wheels on mine and I am at a lifetime at 5.7L/100km (41.2MPG). It has been dropping (or increasing if your using MPG) almost daily.

 

I consistently get anywhere between 4.7L/100km (50MPG) and 5.1L/100km (46MPG) on my 60KM drive to work and 60KM drive home. Usually my drive home is in the 5 - 5.1L/100km mark (46-47MPH) on my way home because there's more uphill driving. It's a slight elevation most of the way home and that shows with my commute both ways. Going to work always shows better MPG. The warmer temps are definitely a factor. Back in Feb and early Mar I was getting between 5.5L/100km (42.7MPG) and 6.2L/100km (37.9MPG). Granted this was when I first got the car and was still learning how to drive it.

 

One thing I have noticed, is that I get much better fuel economy not using Eco-cruise or regular cruise. When I control the gas pedal I get the best results. Usually lifting the pedal ever-so-slightly on the highway makes a world of difference. The car does great when cruising. Also I never go by the instant L/100km or MPG gauge as I don't find it accurate especially when accelerating.