Lincoln at Pebble Beach

[drob23]

The whole idea of bringing people into a brand is also obviously alive with Ford. The margin on a base Fiesta is virtually non-existant, once you get people into the brand you then hope their next vehicle is a 36k Edge, or 45k Explorer. Who knows, maybe the MKC will satisfy this need...

 

^ The 3 series volume definitely makes it the bread winner, but there is something to be said for charging an extra 20k to get into a 528 which has more or less an identical powertrain to its little brother. Not to mention selling cars in East Asian markets where status == luxury car size.

[akirby]

The whole idea of bringing people into a brand is also obviously alive with Ford. The margin on a base Fiesta is virtually non-existant, once you get people into the brand you then hope their next vehicle is a 36k Edge, or 45k Explorer. Who knows, maybe the MKC will satisfy this need...

 

^ The 3 series volume definitely makes it the bread winner, but there is something to be said for charging an extra 20k to get into a 528 which has more or less an identical powertrain to its little brother. Not to mention selling cars in East Asian markets where status == luxury car size.

 

True, but in Ford's case they're using the Titanium Fords as the entry level model then stepping up to the Lincolns. Having options for Lincoln buyers as they step up from high end Fords should be a priority and I think that's why MKC is the first all new vehicle out of the block.

[drob23]

IS is way up this month but still down for the year. It's still a minor player compared to the ES and RX.

Pretty sure they just started selling the new IS a month or so back.

[2b2]

...I personally think the compact luxury sports sedan is fantastic and would love to see Lincoln attempt to be relevant here. But I understand that this isn't where their immediate focus should be.

 

Like another poster mentioned, the compact CUV is probably where the most market potential lies,..

 

...I understand that turning the brand around is not an instant flick of the switch,..

 

re: instant switch: remember lead time

 

We've already seen a preview of the mk-C-uvlet

and some of us have heard the nextgen X (early cy2014/2015my) is directly followed by a 'new' '''S''' (whatever it's called)

but

FLincMoCo has already been working on the next Phase (naturally)

& there have been a sufficient number of sources about the greenlighting of a "highest-volume Luxury segment" contender (a considerable time ago),(for me) to firmly expect a LincStang in cy2015/2016my

[Edstock]

It's all about the product — and Lincoln has been invisible except for the MKZ and MKX. The new stuff ain't here, and Lincoln ain't leaking. Takes time, and mistakes like we suffered with Oval Taurus > Five Hundred > Five Hundred/Taurus > Taurus. So we got an MKT-whale and an MKS that's a little dull and an awkward Navigator. Soon, we will get something else, but it sure seems like it's taking forever, just like the Taurus.

[EBFlex]

Ford doesn't need to drag Lincoln to Buicks level...the Ti trim models for Ford are just as nice or nicer then their Buick counterparts, are cheaper for Ford do internally and are profitable overall...

 

Oh please, Now we've officially stepped into the world of fanboyism and left reality.

 

That is the kind of thinking that will hurt both Ford and Lincoln in the long run. You can damn sure bet Lincoln is closely studying many brands including Buick trying to figure out how they are able to move metal.

 

Do I think Lincoln needs to use cheaper materials? No, they're not that spectacular to begin with. What they need to figure out is why their best performing vehicle for 2013 is the Navigator and why their brand new "game changing" MKZ is performing worse than the last generation MKZ.

 

Right now, the object is NOT profitability. It's getting their name out there. Again, they would be smart to follow Buick and study why they move so many units. When you have no brand recognition, you have to build that before you throw 50K mid-sized sedans on the lot.

[Extreme4x4]

I will say this slowly.

 

You..... will..... sell..... more.... units.... when.... you.... start.... in.... the.... low.... to.... mid.... 20's,.... than.... the.... mid.... to.... high.... 30's.

 

So, for Lincoln to sell more units, all they have to do is build a Focus knockoff, and sell it in the 20's. Instant volume. After all, volume is all that matters, right??? Not that Lincolns ATP's are over $5000 more than Buicks, right??

 

Also, as has been stated before, the MKZ is fine. It is selling as well as it can, based on inventory. Especially when the demand is so large for the hybrids.

 

However, I am sure that if Lincoln used plastiwood and plastialuminum and a lower grade of leather, they would sell 10's of thousands more of what they don't have................... be it, inventory.

 

Edited August 5, 2013 by Extreme4x4

[rmc523]

There was that MKR-esque looking vehicle under that tarp in the design shop not too long ago....

[RichardJensen]

Right now, the object is NOT profitability. It's getting their name out there.

 

Such an impressive declaration. No doubt based on that time that you successfully relaunched a luxury automotive brand.

[ZanatWork]

Hell, no. Buick, due to pricing, may move more vehicles...but it's also been known forever as "the car you buy when you know you're life is ending".

Granted, some could say the same for the late Grand Marquis and certain Lincolns.

However, as much as I have gotten on Lincoln for doing the same things that got Mercury axed, Buick is a more blatant rebadger.

If Lincoln does manage to "be another Buick", it will be a significant improvement over Lincoln's current state (which can be summarized as "completely irrelevant").

[EBFlex]

Such an impressive declaration. No doubt based on that time that you successfully relaunched a luxury automotive brand.

 

That could also be applied to many of your posts.

[Hugh]

That is the kind of thinking that will hurt both Ford and Lincoln in the long run. You can damn sure bet Lincoln is closely studying many brands including Buick trying to figure out how they are able to move metal.

 

Do I think Lincoln needs to use cheaper materials? No, they're not that spectacular to begin with. What they need to figure out is why their best performing vehicle for 2013 is the Navigator and why their brand new "game changing" MKZ is performing worse than the last generation MKZ.

 

Right now, the object is NOT profitability. It's getting their name out there. Again, they would be smart to follow Buick and study why they move so many units. When you have no brand recognition, you have to build that before you throw 50K mid-sized sedans on the lot.

1. Ford doesn't need to study Titanium level models of Chevrolet called Buicks. Ford spend way too much capital trying to just 'buy into' the high end of luxury and called it PAG. It was a failure because no amount of real attention was spent on the foundation of their brand which was Ford, Lincoln and Mercury.

2. The best performing Lincoln is Navigator? I thought is was the MKZ and it's inventory restricted. Please so the numbers to enlighten me. Other then that, that argument holds no water just like past FMC sins like Pinto, Explorer/Firestone, Spark plugs, Fuel lines, 'Grenading' Transmissions (my favorite). Not spectacular? Compared to Vinyl in entry 3 series which is moving up-scale to larger Luxury and perhaps be a proper mid-size for a change. You want a bread and butter Bimmer? Next-gen 1 and 2 series complete with FWD.

3. The name is out there but people need to listen. The attitude to Ford and Lincoln is old, worn out and poor research and excuses. Not worth the time to the company. If you think profitability is not the issue, you are the enemy to any auto business. This "Build what I want" attitude is failure written all over it. The fanbois are Bob Lutz knobs who treat his words like holy writ. Shoot it's $50 CAD for a Limited Taurus here so sometimes I think you guys down south pay too little. Whatever.

What you got on these forums is clear, consise debate which you get your facts and figures ready because you will be called out on it. If you said your comments with a 'Tongue-in-cheek' intent, no worries. I can't read your mind. Otherwise, if you followed some of the threads before joining, you'd see these beliefs of yours have been taken to task more then once. No wonder you're getting slammed.

BTW regarding RJ: Did you ever hear of "Don't poke the bear?" Perhaps you know the word "Troll" more.

[RichardJensen]

That could also be applied to many of your posts.

 

I explain why the decision-makers at Ford who have successfully revitalized the Ford brand are doing what they're doing.

 

You insist that experienced professionals are doing things wrong, and you offer *nothing* to support your accusations.

[BrewfanGRB]

Buick. The brand that moved 16,393 vehicles last month, an increase of almost 14% for the month of July and an increase of 12.1% year over year. While Lincoln's best product, the MKZ was down 7.4% from July last year and down 1.8% for the year. Overall, Lincoln was down 0.8% for the month of July and down 7.6% for the year. Their best product for the year has been the Navigator. Overall, Lincoln moved 6,919 units in July.

 

Lincoln would be wise to study Buick and why they are able to move so much metal. At this point, getting people in the vehicles and talking is their most important priority. If incentives do that, bring them on. The Ford brand can be Lincoln's safety net for a while.

 

Oh good. We're back to the FordBuyer theory of success. "If you don't sell a large number of vehicles, you're not successful. After all, shareholders reward sales not profits."

[BrewfanGRB]

Oh please, Now we've officially stepped into the world of fanboyism and left reality.

 

That is the kind of thinking that will hurt both Ford and Lincoln in the long run. You can damn sure bet Lincoln is closely studying many brands including Buick trying to figure out how they are able to move metal.

 

Do I think Lincoln needs to use cheaper materials? No, they're not that spectacular to begin with. What they need to figure out is why their best performing vehicle for 2013 is the Navigator and why their brand new "game changing" MKZ is performing worse than the last generation MKZ.

 

Right now, the object is NOT profitability. It's getting their name out there. Again, they would be smart to follow Buick and study why they move so many units. When you have no brand recognition, you have to build that before you throw 50K mid-sized sedans on the lot.

 

"What they need to figure out is why their best performing vehicle for 2013 is the Navigator"

 

Are you seriously using the percentage increase YTD on a vehicle that's sold in a year 150% of what the MKZ sold this MONTH as evidence of the biggest problem Lincoln has? Sure, it's the only vehicle that technically has a YTD unit increase but give me a break. And last year, the old MKZ was incentivized and in the early half of the year, had basically no production constraints. This year, it faced the model changeover problems AND competition for production "space" with the high-demand Fusion.

 

"Again, they would be smart to follow Buick and study why they move so many units."

 

You have to be this obtuse on purpose, right? Maybe Lincoln they should study Chevrolet so they can figure out how they move so many more units. You're pretty hard to take seriously when you want Lincoln to study a company that sells vehicles that have starting MSRPs that NO Lincoln WILL have nor should EVER have. There's never going to be an entry level 23,000 Verano-wannabe in a Lincoln showroom. And if you think the fact there isn't one or that there should be is Lincoln's biggest problem, then all I can say is good thing you're nowhere near a position for anyone at Lincoln to listen to you.

[BrewfanGRB]

2. The best performing Lincoln is Navigator? I thought is was the MKZ and it's inventory restricted. Please so the numbers to enlighten me.

 

Technically, he's right. The Navigator is the only model to have a YTD increase in absolute and percentage terms. The MKZ is marginally down YTD (-1.8%/-323 units), the MKX is "only" down about 3.5%/499 units, which is actually not too bad considering they are the volume models...the rest of the models (MKS and MKT) are down more significantly, but they don't really matter.

[akirby]

Technically, he's right. The Navigator is the only model to have a YTD increase in absolute and percentage terms. The MKZ is marginally down YTD (-1.8%/-323 units), the MKX is "only" down about 3.5%/499 units, which is actually not too bad considering they are the volume models...the rest of the models (MKS and MKT) are down more significantly, but they don't really matter.

 

If vehicle A sold 20K vehicles last year but sold 25K this year while vehicle B sold 200K last year and 200K this year, how on earth could you say that vehicle A is more successful?

[BrewfanGRB]

If vehicle A sold 20K vehicles last year but sold 25K this year while vehicle B sold 200K last year and 200K this year, how on earth could you say that vehicle A is more successful?

 

I don't know, ask HIM. I'm just saying, he's clearly using the fact the Navigator TECHNICALLY is the only model w/ greater sales. *I* am not the one that argued the Navigator is the most successful. Jesus.

Edited August 7, 2013 by BrewfanGRB

[akirby]

I don't know, ask HIM. I'm just saying, he's clearly using the fact the Navigator TECHNICALLY is the only model w/ greater sales. *I* am not the one that argued the Navigator is the most successful. Jesus.

 

That was directed at HIM - I was agreeing with you.

[Edstock]

That was directed at HIM - I was agreeing with you.

 

Yeah, but who's on first?

[BrewfanGRB]

That was directed at HIM - I was agreeing with you.

 

Sorry. You quoted me, so I took it as a question of me vs a sarcastic rhetorical directed at the original poster. :surrender: