woodrowwilson Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 I wish Toyota offered a Corolla hatchback or better yet wagon, but I guess the Scion xD is the closest thing available. This is a troll right? Please tell me this is a troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 The CVT will absolutely be a welcome improvement. That's one sentence I would never have expected to hear on an enthusiast site... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) This is a troll right? Please tell me this is a troll. I have been a member here for 14 years and am certainly no troll. You are very rude. Edited August 30, 2013 by ehaase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Oval Guide Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I wish Toyota offered a Corolla hatchback or better yet wagon, but I guess the Scion xD is the closest thing available. They do offer varients in the European Union. Wagons are hugely popular over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 This is a troll right? Please tell me this is a troll. He's right. The Matrix is dead. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/05/toyota-matrix-discontinued-for-2014/ So maybe use a bit of a lighter touch, next time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 2014 Corolla details are now posted on the Toyota USA and Toyota Canada sites. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) I currently own a 2011 Corolla LE that I purchased from Enterprise coming off rental duties. I was in a bind when the Caravan's climate control system completely collapsed in a most impressive way and would have cost me a gigantic amount of money to fix, and coupled with the fact that Enterprise was running a trade in bonus special and the fact that I have a family member that works at Enterprise that could get a discount for me, meant that I got the Corolla for a song. My impression of the Corolla is that it is a remarkable bit of automotive appliance manufactureing. There is absolutely nothing complicated about operating the 2011, and from what I've seen of the 2012-13 that got a modified center stack due to the new radio/information/control system, its not at all complex either. This is a car that is absolutely designed for someone that needs to get from point A to point B without any fuss whatsoever. It's plenty roomy inside for me to drive (and I'm no small man in height or weight) and also allows me to pick up my four oldest kids from school and seat them reasonably comfortably. Its not a corner carver, it doesn't sprint off the line at stoplights. It definitely does allow me to make three hour drives across the state at 75 mph and still get 35 mpg or so. Its got a big trunk and fold down back seats and can carry a surprisingly large amount of stuff. Its biggest failing right now is that awful tansmission. That 4 speed is the most confused, desperately cost cutting lump of metal I've ever had the displeasure of operating. It may be rock solid reliable, but it couldn't find the correct gear for a situation in under a second if it's very existence depended on it. It is just as lost as the one in the 2006 Corolla that I had right after Katrina flooded my hand-me-down accord. The CVT will absolutely be a welcome improvement. The optional engine will also be a hot item. The current Corolla is starting to lag behind the competition in the mpg department, and in that segment, that's a big deal. You have to understand that segment. Except for just a few cars in it, the compact car segment is NOT aspirational. Compact luxury? Yes. Compact sporty (MAzda3, Imprezza WRX), yes. Compact commuter? No! These are almost all universally appliances. Some are better than others. Some lag the pack. The Corolla excels in being inexpensive, having a comfy ride, being roomy inside, and being VERY reliable. An excellent commuter vehicle for someone that doesn't really care about the experience and just wants their car to get them there. They are continuing to address its biggest flaws agains the general market (and not in the enthusiasts' eyes) and this is another step in that direction. Thanks for sharing your impressions of the Corolla. I would disagree that the compact car segment is not aspirational. Yes, there are plenty of buyers who just want to get from Point A to Point B. George Romney and Robert McNamara tapped that market in the early 1960s with the Rambler and Falcon, respectively. Chrysler Corporation later took over that market segment with the Plymouth Valiant and Dodge Dart. Lee Iacocca came along and turned the Falcon into the sexy Mustang and made hay with buyers on a budget who wanted something more than basic transportation. I believe that there are still plenty of buyers today who want a trim, relatively economical car that also is well-equipped and stylish. Ford is tapping that market the Focus (particularly the upper trim levels), and even the new Chevrolet Cruze is several steps up from the penalty boxes GM has previously offered in this segment. Honda also discovered pretty quickly that plenty of Civic buyers want more than a Corolla with an "H" on the front. Edited August 30, 2013 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 People will buy this lump and be happy with it. Toyota knows that and counts on it. Generally I believe the people who'll buy this are also people so close minded they won't open up to look at other products on the market in this segment. They're missing the boat on many fronts in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 People will buy this lump and be happy with it. Toyota knows that and counts on it. Generally I believe the people who'll buy this are also people so close minded they won't open up to look at other products on the market in this segment. They're missing the boat on many fronts in my opinion. Right.. But that pool will get smaller and smaller, just as it did with the mediocre American offerings years ago. Aikido has made plenty of noise claiming to "get it", but they keep churning out this uninspired drivel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) I wouldn't doubt that Toyota is becoming as sclerotic in its management as Ford & GM became (and which GM, to some extent still is). That is, Akido may want change, but he can't effect it anymore than Bill Ford could. I don't buy into the Pete D. "True believers" binary view, or his 'thirds' view of the auto industry--I think they're self-limiting and needlessly combative. But I do believe that Toyota's current structure makes it difficult for good ideas to be recognized and implemented. Edited August 30, 2013 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Come on Ford, put the 1.5 Ecoboost engine in the Focus and blow Corolla off the map.... Third generation Mazda3 (Axela), with the 2.5L SKYACTIV powertrain, sets the pace for this segment with a great combination of performance, style, and quality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) Third generation Mazda3 (Axela), with the 2.5L SKYACTIV powertrain, sets the pace for this segment with a great combination of performance, style, and quality. the 2.5 Skyactiv is a noteworthy advance in engine technology as is the Ii-Eloop capacitor hybrid. It's a point of distinction and something a 1.5 Ecoboost could more than counter without hybriding. I admit that I am biased towards Ford but that doesn't diminish my admiration for Mazda's efforts. Edited August 31, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 So, Toyota builds a 2005 Focus. This is what it reminds me of. Bad move IMHO. More like the 2008 Focus. Toyota reminds me now of where GM was about 7 or so years ago. Not a single good design, nothing new, everything looks the same and less and less people are buying. Its like the entire design team is just completely uninspired or something. Their new RWD car is quite nice. I think we get it as a Scion. Jeremy Clarkson loved it so it must be fantastic! I got a chuckle out of this: And we think the Lincoln reviews are bad. This has to hurt considering the Corolla is one of Toyota's bread and butter cars. If that was a line written about a Ford product, there would be people on this site that would be on suicide watch. What's funny (well sad really, I hate to see automakers "miss" like this), is that the "new" Tundra received a few lines that cut deep like that from AutoBlog I believe. It was harsh, but warranted. As for the Corolla, it will do just fine. It's such a staple in the small car market, Toyota would have to pull a "big 3" and let it rot on the vine for the better part of a decade before they saw any significant sales decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I currently own a 2011 Corolla LE that I purchased from Enterprise coming off rental duties. I was in a bind when the Caravan's climate control system completely collapsed in a most impressive way and would have cost me a gigantic amount of money to fix, and coupled with the fact that Enterprise was running a trade in bonus special and the fact that I have a family member that works at Enterprise that could get a discount for me, meant that I got the Corolla for a song. My impression of the Corolla is that it is a remarkable bit of automotive appliance manufacturing. There is absolutely nothing complicated about operating the 2011, and from what I've seen of the 2012-13 that got a modified center stack due to the new radio/information/control system, its not at all complex either. This is a car that is absolutely designed for someone that needs to get from point A to point B without any fuss whatsoever. It's plenty roomy inside for me to drive (and I'm no small man in height or weight) and also allows me to pick up my four oldest kids from school and seat them reasonably comfortably. Its not a corner carver, it doesn't sprint off the line at stoplights. It definitely does allow me to make three hour drives across the state at 75 mph and still get 35 mpg or so. Its got a big trunk and fold down back seats and can carry a surprisingly large amount of stuff. Its biggest failing right now is that awful tansmission. That 4 speed is the most confused, desperately cost cutting lump of metal I've ever had the displeasure of operating. It may be rock solid reliable, but it couldn't find the correct gear for a situation in under a second if it's very existence depended on it. It is just as lost as the one in the 2006 Corolla that I had right after Katrina flooded my hand-me-down accord. The CVT will absolutely be a welcome improvement. The optional engine will also be a hot item. The current Corolla is starting to lag behind the competition in the mpg department, and in that segment, that's a big deal. You have to understand that segment. Except for just a few cars in it, the compact car segment is NOT aspirational. Compact luxury? Yes. Compact sporty (MAzda3, Imprezza WRX), yes. Compact commuter? No! These are almost all universally appliances. Some are better than others. Some lag the pack. The Corolla excels in being inexpensive, having a comfy ride, being roomy inside, and being VERY reliable. An excellent commuter vehicle for someone that doesn't really care about the experience and just wants their car to get them there. They are continuing to address its biggest flaws against the general market (and not in the enthusiasts' eyes) and this is another step in that direction. And people wonder why some choose to buy a Corolla. It's really as plain as day. It's a good, reliable car. In a segment that's full of appliances, this is one of the best. It does what it's supposed to do, and nothing more. I can understand the appeal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 If that was a line written about a Ford product, there would be people on this site that would be on suicide watch. or more likely, there would be "Frienemies" of Ford agreeing with the report and saying it was accurate.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) And people wonder why some choose to buy a Corolla. It's really as plain as day. It's a good, reliable car. In a segment that's full of appliances, this is one of the best. It does what it's supposed to do, and nothing more. I can understand the appeal. Looking globally, Focus and Corolla are neck and neck. I find it interesting that the "Escort" concept with longer wheelbase and more rear leg room approximates the new Corolla.... Edited August 31, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 or more likely, there would be "Frienemies" of Ford agreeing with the report and saying it was accurate.. If it was an accurate assessment, then what's the problem? Like I said, the review of the Tundra was very harsh, but there isn't a soul on this site that would disagree with it. Granted that's probably more due to fanboyism, but the point still stands. Being truthful can sometimes mean saying things that are not positive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 If it was an accurate assessment, then what's the problem? Like I said, the review of the Tundra was very harsh, but there isn't a soul on this site that would disagree with it. Granted that's probably more due to fanboyism, but the point still stands. Being truthful can sometimes mean saying things that are not positive. First, I don't think it was accurate because I can take my Ford bias out of the equation and see that article for what it was. This was clearly an opportunity to put Toyota down for not doing enough but, that assumption may not correlate with people who matter the most, actual buyers. Second, just because some people may agree/disagree with the interpretations of a report once does not mean that they have to then agree/disagree with everything else written. Third, you seem to leap to the defense of other brands and give benefit of the doubt readily whilst ready to accept anti-Ford reporting as accurate , I don't understand the reasoning behind that on a Ford website... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) First,I don't think it was accurate because I can take my Ford bias out of the equation and see that article for what it was. This was clearly an opportunity to put Toyota down for not doing enough but, that assumption may not correlate with people who matter the most, actual buyers. Second, just because some people may agree/disagree with the interpretations of a report once does not mean that they have to then agree/disagree with everything else written. Third, you seem to leap to the defense of other brands and give benefit of the doubt readily whilst ready to accept anti-Ford reporting as accurate , I don't understand the reasoning behind that on a Ford website... It doesn't have to correlate with buyers. The assessment from AB was valid. People will buy what they want regardless. I don't think a very high percentage of sales are actually swayed by reviews. But I don't have any sort of information to back that up, just a gut feeling. I'm sure someone will be along to attack me for that. And I'm not sure where point 3 is coming from. I think I've only been in conversations regarding MKZ review(s). And you're assessment is not valid as I'm not giving Toyota the benefit of the doubt in this very thread. Edited September 1, 2013 by EBFlex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I think I've only been in conversations regarding MKZ review(s). EB, I'm bringing back a protocol that was used before here. You get five posts in each forum, and that's it. Why? Because in this post here, you seem to have completely forgotten the series of posts where you all-but accused Ford of rigging onboard FE software. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 The whole point of a product is to give a prescribed or existing set of buyers a vehicle that suits their needs and expectations, the article says more about the preferences and prejudices of the reviewer than any of the vehicle's shortcomings but in fairness also speaks to Toyota's attitude towards the people it intends selling Corolla to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 And people wonder why some choose to buy a Corolla. It's really as plain as day. It's a good, reliable car. In a segment that's full of appliances, this is one of the best. It does what it's supposed to do, and nothing more. I can understand the appeal. To underscore EBFlex's point, TrueDelta's automobile reliability data indicates that an eight year old (MY 2005) Toyota Corolla, on average, has a lower repair frequency than a current (MY 2013) Ford Focus. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) EB, I'm bringing back a protocol that was used before here. You get five posts in each forum, and that's it. Why? Because in this post here, you seem to have completely forgotten the series of posts where you all-but accused Ford of rigging onboard FE software. EDIT...(long, adult-like response removed) It's just not worth it. If you're going to flat out lie in the post I quoted, there is no reasoning with someone like you. Edited September 3, 2013 by EBFlex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 To underscore EBFlex's point, TrueDelta's automobile reliability data indicates that an eight year old (MY 2005) Toyota Corolla, on average, has a lower repair frequency than a current (MY 2013) Ford Focus. For being virtually the same car for years, it better not break... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) For being virtually the same car for years, it better not break... Precisely, if you have a long lived platform/car that has evolutionary change, not only is it more cost effective but the reliability can be improved. All of that has to be balanced against a lack of change and buyer expectation. If Ford NA had adopted C1 Focus at the same time as Ford Europe, then it would have "evolved" like Toyota's Corolla. Edited September 3, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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