Ford better wake up

[coupe3w]

 

Ford isn't in business to satisfy your need for bragging rights with your buddies. And that type of stuff just doesn't translate to new car sales. Neither does NASCAR or NHRA.

Then why race at all? Why have a Performance group designing parts? Why even have a Mustang? Henry Ford raced the 999 for bragging rights.

[akirby]

Then why race at all? Why have a Performance group designing parts? Why even have a Mustang? Henry Ford raced the 999 for bragging rights.

 

In some cases racing provides R&D that goes back into the development of future products. e.g. Ford's experience with Formula 1 racing led to improvements in suspension and handling across the board. The old adage of "win on Sunday sell on Monday" just doesn't hold true any more. Performance parts for Mustangs help sell new Mustangs. Cheap aftermarket crate engines do not. It's that simple.

[NickF1011]

 

Performance parts for Mustangs help sell new Mustangs. Cheap aftermarket crate engines do not. It's that simple.

 

Yeah, it's not like there are tens of thousands of these things going off the shelves every month to people building hot rods. Ford offers crate engines to those who want them. To those who prefer a Chevy engine instead? Go for it. Ford's not going to design an entirely new engine just to make a select few hot rodders happy (most of whom would probably still buy the Chevy engine anyway). Is Ford losing new vehicle customers over this decision? Not likely, so they simply have no vested interest in it.

[grbeck]

Yes! You guy's just don't get it . These kids buy GM products and just love to shoot down Ford products. Winning has bragging rights. Do you really think these guys are buying new Fords? No, they are buying GM because they have a better motor. Don't see any MOD motors going in Camaro's do you? And this doesn't bother you? Then you guy's are not real Ford guys. Oh and Jimmy Johnson is on his way to his 6th NASCAR championship. More bragging rights for GM. I'm just sick of it that's all. Sorry if you guys don't think this is important to Ford. I do and I guess I must be in the minority. So sad.

You originally complained about people installing GM V-8s in Fox-body Mustangs, so technically they aren't buying "GM products." (If the GM products are so great, why aren't they installing these modified engines in old F-bodies? There are plenty of old Camaros and Firebirds still around, too.)

 

The problem is that, if a Fox-body Mustang does have a GM V-8 under the hood, most people won't know this. They will assume that a Ford car has a Ford engine. So the PR value to GM among the general public is very limited.

Edited November 12, 2013 by grbeck

[NickF1011]

You originally complained about people installing GM V-8s in Fox-body Mustangs, so technically they aren't buying "GM products." (If the GM products are so great, why aren't they installing these modified engines in old F-bodies? It isn't as though there aren't plenty of old Camaros and Firebirds around, too.)

 

The problem is that, if a Fox-body Mustang does have a GM V-8 under the hood, most people won't know this. They will assume that a Ford car has a Ford engine. So the PR value to GM among the general public is very limited.

 

The argument about fox bodies is just plain silly too. It's far cheaper to build a Windsor motor for a fox body than it would ever be to put an LS V8 in one.

[coupe3w]

Isn't the Dynacorn Mustang bodies licensed by Ford? They must get some royalties from that. Would you like to see Ford motors going in them or GM? Maybe your not aware of the old Mustang car hobby.

[akirby]

Isn't the Dynacorn Mustang bodies licensed by Ford? They must get some royalties from that. Would you like to see Ford motors going in them or GM?

 

Frankly my dear - I don't give a damn. And neither does Ford. It doesn't sell new Mustangs and if it doesn't sell new Mustangs Ford doesn't care!

[grbeck]

Isn't the Dynacorn Mustang bodies licensed by Ford? They must get some royalties from that. Would you like to see Ford motors going in them or GM? Maybe your not aware of the old Mustang car hobby.

The "old Mustang car hobby" must be an entirely separate phenomenon from what you are describing.

 

I see plenty of 1979-04 Mustangs for sale and show at the various Carlisle events. They all have Ford engines, and several have been heavily modified - so someone is making after-market parts for both the 5.0 V-8 and the 4.6 mod motor. They apparently aren't that difficult or expensive to modify. I was thinking about buying a used one, and my big complaint was that virtually all of them had been modified in some way. I wanted one that was stock.

[NickF1011]

Nope. No mod motor parts out there at all.

 

[akirby]

But but but....my buddies keep saying their camaros have more power than my mustang and I don't like it and I want Ford to fix it by building cheap aftermarket motors so I can brag to my buddies.

[mackinaw]

I just found this post. Like really, how many guys, nationwide, are putting Chevy engines into Fords? A few thousand? Out of 320 million people? If anything qualifies as something that is not important, this is it.

[akirby]

Sounds like tens of millions to me..........maybe a billion!

[RichardJensen]

I just don't get it.

 

The 5.0L is a more powerful, more capable, more efficient motor than the 5.3L LS, and it has a lot more 'blue sky' than the 5.3, but somehow, the 5.3 is a better motor because the junk yards are full of them?

[coupe3w]

The "old Mustang car hobby" must be an entirely separate phenomenon from what you are describing.

 

I see plenty of 1979-04 Mustangs for sale and show at the various Carlisle events. They all have Ford engines, and several have been heavily modified - so someone is making after-market parts for both the 5.0 V-8 and the 4.6 mod motor. They apparently aren't that difficult or expensive to modify. I was thinking about buying a used one, and my big complaint was that virtually all of them had been modified in some way. I wanted one that was stock.

The Carlisle event (Ford Day) the car MUST be Ford powered to enter into the show. That is why you don't see any Chevy powered Mustangs there. But go to a drag race (non Ford sponsored event) and see how many of the Fox body Mustangs are Chevy powered I bet you see quite a few.

[coupe3w]

I just don't get it.

 

The 5.0L is a more powerful, more capable, more efficient motor than the 5.3L LS, and it has a lot more 'blue sky' than the 5.3, but somehow, the 5.3 is a better motor because the junk yards are full of them?

The 5.0L Coyote may be a bit more powerful HP wise but down on torque. It's to wide to fit into most of the older cars (excluding Fox bodies). It's also a lot more expensive to rebuild and harder to work on. That is why guys are installing them in Fox body Mustangs. The Fox body is a perfect match. It's light weight, as a good chassis and plenty of parts are available. I don't understand why they are installing 5.3 in them instead of a Windsor or Cleveland or even big block Fords. My guess is cost.

[RichardJensen]

The 5.0L Coyote may be a bit more powerful HP wise but down on torque. It's to wide to fit into most of the older cars (excluding Fox bodies). It's also a lot more expensive to rebuild and harder to work on. That is why guys are installing them in Fox body Mustangs. The Fox body is a perfect match. It's light weight, as a good chassis and plenty of parts are available. I don't understand why they are installing 5.3 in them instead of a Windsor or Cleveland or even big block Fords. My guess is cost.

 

The 5.0 is a better engine in new cars than the 5.3 (right now: comparable power, less fuel consumption, and I expect with the next F150s, significantly more power), and Ford is in the business of selling new cars!

 

And, again, I don't understand what you expect Ford to do.

 

They can't fill the junkyards with cheap Windsor block motors! The farther we get from '98, the fewer Windsors there are going to be in circulation but there will continue to be LS block motors because GM, for whatever reason, just can't bring itself to use a more efficient engine design.

[coupe3w]

 

The 5.0 is a better engine in new cars than the 5.3 (right now: comparable power, less fuel consumption, and I expect with the next F150s, significantly more power), and Ford is in the business of selling new cars!

 

And, again, I don't understand what you expect Ford to do.

 

They can't fill the junkyards with cheap Windsor block motors! The farther we get from '98, the fewer Windsors there are going to be in circulation but there will continue to be LS block motors because GM, for whatever reason, just can't bring itself to use a more efficient engine design.

Richard, the LS might not be as fuel efficient, but you have to agree it's cheaper to manufacture.

[RichardJensen]

Richard, the LS might not be as fuel efficient, but you have to agree it's cheaper to manufacture.

 

That's beside the point.

 

First, the 5.3L now has direct injection which has enabled it to more or less close the gap with the PFI 5.0L--so the LS motors are not as cheap as you might think they are.

 

Second, if the added cost results in even higher perceived value, the added cost is worth it.

 

---

 

Face it, the same thing that happened in the 60s is going to happen again. Ford has *never* been married to the dimensions of any engine. Shoot. They had the flat head, Y, the FE, the MEL, the Windsor, the 335, the 385, and the Mod, and not a dang one of them had the same dimensions as another. Did it cost Ford a few sales around the margins? Of course it did. Did it ruin the company? It did not.

 

GM, on the other hand, has spent the last 20 years playing catch-up in the new truck market, because they can't let that small block form factor die. Look at them: They finally got the LS competitive with the mod by slapping DI heads on the LS. Guess what's going to happen to the LS when Ford puts DI heads on the mod? Right back to where they were before. A day late and a dollar short. Small comfort that cheapskates are putting LS motors in fox body Mustangs!

 

And let's call a spade a spade here. That's what these people are. Cheapskates.

 

Windsors are *not* expensive. But you can hardly go out to a junk yard and pull a Windsor short block anymore. So they're not crappy LS block from a trashed Trailblazer cheap either.

 

Finally, if you really want to get under the skin of a guy who's all pleased that he saved a few hundred bucks by slapping an LS in a Mustang, just tell him that the LS was what happened when GM realized, 30 years after the fact, that the Windsor was a better engine design. And that the smart LS guys switch their engines to a Windsor firing order too.

Edited November 13, 2013 by RichardJensen

[xr7g428]

Hmm, still lots of roller 351W in Broncos and trucks that seem to get built into stroker motors on a regular basis. The 5.0 has so many parts available that it is not too far off the Chevy once you consider the cost of converting every other thing. And if your car has to pass smog, for street use, explaining that you have an LS is the beginning of a painful experience. I think the problem is that there isn't anything equivalent to the Fox from GM, to stick you GM motor in...

[twintornados]

Summit crate motor Ford 302 for $2500.00 ....all day, all night, 300 HP

 

[92LX302]

Coyotes are common swap in first gen Mustang. A bit of work, but it's been done more than once.

[EBFlex]

The facts are (and you know how much some are bothered by the use of facts)

But GM has "stuck" with the small block because they have had no reason to change. The modern Ford V8s are and were so uncompetitive they were laughable. There is a reason the mod V8s were nicknamed 'boat anchors'... Because that's what they did best.

And now, those small block V8s get better mileage than a Ford V6.

Ever since the modular family hit the market, GM has been lightyears ahead of Ford engines.

The small block is sunrise reliable, cheap to make, very efficient, compact, cheap to repair (rare), etc.

The only competition GMs engine family has had was from the 5.7 from Chrysler. And as good as the 5.7 is, the GM small block is a better engine.

Edited November 15, 2013 by EBFlex

[the_spaniard]

I guess I am missing the point here.

 

So used GM engines are cheap and fit into more used vehicles/combinations. So why would Ford produce a new engine just for gearheads on track days when most people will just buy a used GM engine because it is much cheaper anyway? The folks buying used GM engines certainly are not going to pay the price of a newer, more compatible (and more expensive because it was new) engine from Ford.

 

Nothing personal, but that probably isn't exactly a significant demographic anymore.

 

Times have changed a bit. I come from a Ford family (originally - now a Ford/Mazda/Nissan family). We are fans of Fords, but could care less about 1/4 mile drag times or Nascar. Personally, I find drag racing as boring as 43 guys driving in a circle making left turns. A lot of people are the same way now.

 

I used to be pretty critical of Fords offerings in the past and still consider myself a fan. Nowadays though I really don't have much bad to say about the Blue Oval. They have certainly upper their game across the board. Their advances in engineering, safety, power, technology, and fuel economy certainly outweigh the deficits of not having a larger pool of old engines to parts-pick from for low-budget tuners.

[All-Or-Nothing]

The ONLY reason people swap in those Chebbie motors is because it's CHEAP. Ain't no big advantage to do it but price. We all know it. Going Chebbie is the cheap way to go.

 

 

 

Is this thread for real.

 

OP must have finally got that cold air intake for his Contour and a Chebbie swapped Mustang put the romp to him and now he's butthurt because the Chebbie swap was cheap and easy for the other guy.

 

If the OP really thinks this is something for FORD to worry about he is just crazy. How about spend a little more on your FORD engine and get even with those Chebbie swapped cars.

[coupe3w]

The ONLY reason people swap in those Chebbie motors is because it's CHEAP. Ain't no big advantage to do it but price. We all know it. Going Chebbie is the cheap way to go.

 

 

 

Is this thread for real.

 

OP must have finally got that cold air intake for his Contour and a Chebbie swapped Mustang put the romp to him and now he's butthurt because the Chebbie swap was cheap and easy for the other guy.

 

If the OP really thinks this is something for FORD to worry about he is just crazy. How about spend a little more on your FORD engine and get even with those Chebbie swapped cars.

Not even close. LOL I have 3 Fords and 2 of them will spank many a Chevy thank you very much. My DD is a 2012 Focus. Never owned a Contour. My '34 3 window coupe was chevy powered when I bought it, but now has a 5.0 out of a '89 Mustang GT. And My '67 Mustang Fastback has a 351 Cleveland. Thanks for your concern.