fordtech1 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I suspect the air bag systems do consume more power than small items like keyless entry and tire pressure systems that ping every so often. Current airbag systems use occupant detection systems and communicate over high speed networks to other modules. Leaving them alive at all times, I would suspect cause battery drain and would have to have communication from modules that need to stay awake also. The early airbag stuff in late 80s and early 90s was hot at all times. However, it only used a safing sensor and 3 crash sensors. Only the safing sensor and one crash sensor had to trip to deploy. No decisions were made by the module other than, let the jiffy pop out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Btw brake lights now are becoming a key on only activation. Euro cars have been like that for years and since we are global, we get it to on some models. It started with the gen 1 focus. One benefit to restrictions to key on only, Ford would not have had such a issue with the cruise deactivation switches causing fire while vehicle was parked. That switch was on a brake switch power circuit that was hot all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Btw brake lights now are becoming a key on only activation. Euro cars have been like that for years and since we are global, we get it to on some models. It started with the gen 1 focus. One benefit to restrictions to key on only, Ford would not have had such a issue with the cruise deactivation switches causing fire while vehicle was parked. That switch was on a brake switch power circuit that was hot all time. I just ran into this on my daughter's 2012 Focus. I was trying to verify a bad brake light before I changed it and it wouldn't come on until I turned on the ignition. Very strange! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiggss Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) wow, that is bad. Edited March 16, 2014 by twiggss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Several of the recalls related to the new Escape, specifically the one where leaking coolant could catch fire dripping on the catalyst, were specifically caused because FoE was the lead engineering organization and choose NOT to follow design practices that had been in place by Ford US Powertrain Engineering for several years. Hmm? people have realy poor memories. there Were town issues with the EB16 one was a defect from the factory the other was a feedback Loop Error in the software that caused the engine to overheat and leak coolant causing fires. the Defect was FOE fault, and was resolved. the software issue was Ford US Powertrain Engineering's Fault they wrote the software for the US variant of the engine, that software caused the engine to heat instaed of cooling down and caused the cooling system to over pressurize and leak coolant. This is a pattern where FNA takes something that works and "fixes it" and makes it work worse than it did before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Ford learned a big lesson after the Pinto fiasco. It is now corporate policy to destroy most documents and emails within 1 or 2 years of their creation. Only documents/records that meet certain criteria are kept and even those have a destruction schedule. About the only thing kept long term are blueprints. Much of that, I believe, actually falls under Sarbanes-Oxley requirements. Some things aren't supposed to be kept after a certain period of time, per the guidelines in the law. Much of it is far less than 1-2 years too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Some things aren't supposed to be kept after a certain period of time, per the guidelines in the law. Much of it is far less than 1-2 years too. Unless you work in a nuclear power plant. Many documents have a retention policy of 30 or more years. You would not believe the amount of money spent at one nuclear plant to ensure documents are kept the specified amount of time and not a day longer. I have worked to put in high-dollar computer systems to help ensure that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 When I first entered the workforce back in the mid 80s we had a government requirement to keep trouble ticket data forever. It was subsequently changed to 7 years. The funny thing was the requirement was that the data be kept but there was no requirement that the data could be read, interpreted or printed. So we just shipped backup tapes to a vault somewhere and didn't worry about whether we had software that could read them years later. Gotta be careful how those regulations are worded..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 When I first entered the workforce back in the mid 80s we had a government requirement to keep trouble ticket data forever. It was subsequently changed to 7 years. The funny thing was the requirement was that the data be kept but there was no requirement that the data could be read, interpreted or printed. So we just shipped backup tapes to a vault somewhere and didn't worry about whether we had software that could read them years later. Gotta be careful how those regulations are worded..... Ha, that's funny. Typical govt. BS! It's a tad different in the nuke industry though. It has to be readable or at least easily interpreted. PDF has been the standard for quite a while, though I did push them to allow XML. At first, we had to apply an XSL stylesheet to the XML, convert to HTML, then convert that to a PDF, but we were only making certain required fields visible in the PDF. My argument was that we could have all of the data (which they ultimately wanted) in a format that could be easily interpreted or 'made pretty' at any later date by any software program. And we could store this for less expense and with less code than going to PDF, and we could also save on storage space since it has to be triple-stored. It actually had to get approval from the NRC before we could use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Hard to beat plain ascii text name/value pairs for portability/readability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Hard to beat plain ascii text name/value pairs for portability/readability. True...I just prefer XML as it is a bit easier to work with, and you also have much better validation tools while generating the data as well. Also, since the XML is stored as plain text, you can open it up with any reader, and Internet Explorer does a good job of making it mostly readable. Of course, one user called our XML data a 'puke stream!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 When I first entered the workforce back in the mid 80s we had a government requirement to keep trouble ticket data forever. It was subsequently changed to 7 years. The funny thing was the requirement was that the data be kept but there was no requirement that the data could be read, interpreted or printed. So we just shipped backup tapes to a vault somewhere and didn't worry about whether we had software that could read them years later. Gotta be careful how those regulations are worded..... I'm working on a book proposal covering the early development of Unix (1969 to 1973), and one of the amusing discoveries is that paper tape has proved to be far more durable than magnetic tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I'm working on a book proposal covering the early development of Unix (1969 to 1973), and one of the amusing discoveries is that paper tape has proved to be far more durable than magnetic tape. Doesn't magnetic tape only have a real expected lifespan of 20 years or so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md3184 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Much of that, I believe, actually falls under Sarbanes-Oxley requirements. Some things aren't supposed to be kept after a certain period of time, per the guidelines in the law. Much of it is far less than 1-2 years too. SOX increased retention periods for documents related to public filings (10-K, Q, etc) for internal financials and external audit work papers. Makes sense no? Why would they reduce retention periods if the intent of the law was to improve transparency? Also, I went through the companies annual file review (AFR) at Ford last week and the minimum retention period I saw on any class of document was 7 years (greater than two years old moved offsite). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 True...I just prefer XML as it is a bit easier to work with, and you also have much better validation tools while generating the data as well. Also, since the XML is stored as plain text, you can open it up with any reader, and Internet Explorer does a good job of making it mostly readable. Of course, one user called our XML data a 'puke stream!' I didn't mean name/value literally - to me xml is just a more sophisticated version. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md3184 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The only documents I know of purposely destroyed after a short period of time are tax documents related to the formation of certain holding companies offshore to receive favorable tax treatment--in the event of an audit it would be difficult to prove the intent of tax avoidance. I suppose this same protection could apply to potential defect documents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md3184 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The only documents I know of purposely destroyed after a short period of time are tax documents related to the formation of certain holding companies offshore to receive favorable tax treatment--in the event of an audit it would be difficult to prove the intent of tax avoidance. I suppose this same protection could apply to potential defect documents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Unless you work in a nuclear power plant. Many documents have a retention policy of 30 or more years. You would not believe the amount of money spent at one nuclear plant to ensure documents are kept the specified amount of time and not a day longer. I have worked to put in high-dollar computer systems to help ensure that. Don't need to talk to me about some lengthy retention periods. Just noting that some others that you would think would be longer (such as open network e-mail) really aren't long at all, unless specified by a court order or other such legal means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Don't need to talk to me about some lengthy retention periods. Just noting that some others that you would think would be longer (such as open network e-mail) really aren't long at all, unless specified by a court order or other such legal means. I hear ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Lots of GM fan boys are calling the drivers "morons" for having "so much junk on keychains". Huh? For years, keyswitches worked fine, then GM asks for 'cheaper parts', and these plasticy switches don't hold up. Whomever designed this 'cheap' part is the "moron". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) So let me get this straight: If ignition goes off, my airbag wont deploy if I hit something AND the guy behind me won't know I'm putting my brakes on? I'm DEAD! But yet, if I start my car on a cold morning and leave it running in my driveway, my headlights come on so a thief can steal my car! Somebody is not thinking! Edited March 18, 2014 by Joe771476 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 So let me get this straight: If ignition goes off, my airbag wont deploy if I hit something AND the guy behind me won't know I'm putting my brakes on? I'm DEAD! But yet, if I start my car on a cold morning and leave it running in my driveway, my headlights come on so a thief can steal my car! Somebody is not thinking! Brake lights function regardless of ignition position. And unless you have some sort of cheap remote starter, a thief isn't going to get very far with a remote started vehicle without the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Brake lights function regardless of ignition position. Read back a ways where several folks stated that the new Focus and others do not enable the brake lights unless the ignition is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Read back a ways where several folks stated that the new Focus and others do not enable the brake lights unless the ignition is on. Hmmm. If that's the case, I'd consider that a very bad design, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Hmmm. If that's the case, I'd consider that a very bad design, yes. Meh, should be OK as long as your ignition doesn't turn itself off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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