GM Officially Confirms Flagship Caddy

[grbeck]

That will certainly work...

[Fgts]

That doesn't sound like a sound basis for a vehicle that will successfully compete with the new S-Class. I can't see how a platform that is inexpensive enough to support a $40-50,000 Chevrolet Caprice is going to compete with $100,000+ Benzes riding on a platform that was designed from day one to be the very best. Flexibility can be a good thing when developing a platform, but it has its limits. Unless GM thinks it can sell $80,000 Chevrolet sedans, which will make the ATS look like a stroke of genius in comparison.

 

Cadillac dealers may impress people who don't know any better, or have bought Chevrolets, but that is generally not the type of customer shopping for a vehicle in this class.

I don't think GM is trying to out-do the S class. I'm thinking on the lines along Kia K900 or Lexus LS price wise though it's expected to have sporty models added (example: CTS V sport).

 

As for the platform Cadillac wants 90k for the Escalade Platinum on something based on a 26k Chevy pick-up..and people buy it, platform sharing between mainstream and luxury divisions is nothing new.

[grbeck]

I don't think GM is trying to out-do the S class. I'm thinking on the lines along Kia K900 or Lexus LS price wise though it's expected to have sporty models added (example: CTS V sport).

 

As for the platform Cadillac wants 90k for the Escalade Platinum on something based on a 26k Chevy pick-up..and people buy it, platform sharing between mainstream and luxury divisions is nothing new.

SUV buyers and luxury sedan buyers are two entirely different animals. Just because GM can utilize this type of platform sharing with the Escalade does not mean it will work in the premium-sedan class.

 

Everything I've read - including the articles linked to on gminsidenews.com - says that GM is targeting this car at the Mercedes S-Class. Which means that the platform sharing tactic used for the Escalade won't necessarily work here. The Escalade does not compete directly with a Mercedes model that is also an icon, and dominant in its class.

Edited August 20, 2014 by grbeck

[630land]

All the GM fan guys at Auto Show will go "It costs too much!" "They should bring just back the D body, I'd buy one."

 

M-B fans will not even set foot in a Caddy dealer or Auto Show exhibit. They will mockingly say "Do they still make Cadillacs?"

[jpd80]

Forget the $40-50k Caprice---he's talking about the Cadillac flagship sharing a platform with a $25k police car.

GM took a decent full size sedan and cheapened it with a base Commodore interior to get piddling sales of Caprice PPV.

How degrading for a car that should have been treated better and sold as a premium offering... but that's GM for you.

[akirby]

I don't think GM is trying to out-do the S class. I'm thinking on the lines along Kia K900 or Lexus LS price wise

 

Lexus LS runs from $75K stripper up to $120K hybrids. A nicely equipped AWD long wheelbase is $90K.

 

You can't compete with a S class with a $75K sedan.

[Fgts]

 

Lexus LS runs from $75K stripper up to $120K hybrids. A nicely equipped AWD long wheelbase is $90K.

 

You can't compete with a S class with a $75K sedan.

An S class can run up 220k+.I don't think that's GMs goal to offer a toe to toe competitor, more of a volume, mid-market type of car among flagships

[OHV 16V]

Fgts, please understand that this isn't "fanboi-ism" at all. If Ford came out tomorrow and announced that they were going to build Lincoln an executive class sedan (i.e.- S-Class/7-Series competitor) off of a brand new platform out of the blue, you would see everyone on here shaking their heads and saying the same things about Ford as they are GM.

 

No one is saying that the Cadillacs are bad cars, nor are they saying that RWD is a bad thing. What they're disgusted at is GM/Cadillac not knowing their customer base and its needs and wants. Great cars don't help a damn thing if your dealership body doesn't deliver a true luxury experience. Also, as covered elsewhere on the forums, CUVs are the hot ticket right now, and GM is instead concentrating on putting out cars for small niche areas of the market that won't give them the returns monetarily that they need. (This flagship sedan and a sub-ATS vehicle are prime examples). What Caddy needs is the money for these projects invested in upgrading the dealership experience and towards more CUVs for the brand. The dealership atmosphere in particular ruins any potential image boost that Cadillac could gain by making good cars.

 

Is Lincoln there? Nope. Absolutely not. Their "image" has a lot farther to go than Cadillac's to be repaired. (Please note that image doesn't necessarily sell cars, as Cadillac is proving). But you know what? Ford recognizes this, and are starting to address this by changing the dealership experience and improving Lincoln's existing core products first. They aren't trying to outdo any other luxury brand, they are however building vehicles that they know their customer base will buy. They MOST CERTAINLY are not going to try and extend themselves beyond that until they believe their image is "there" and that their customers will come upmarket with them. So, ergo, they're not wasting tons of Ford's money by using GM's approach for Cadillac.

 

As I stated in the other thread I started, would I buy a Lincoln over a Cadillac? Not a chance. Cadillac's vehicles appeal WAY more to me. But... that's between those two specific brands. With the money that Cadillac is charging and the areas of the market that they're trying to position themselves in, I'm not thinking Cadillac. At all. I'm buying the real deal. BMW, Mercedes, etc. so I get a true luxury experience for all of that money that I'm spending.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Fgts, please understand that this isn't "fanboi-ism" at all. If Ford came out tomorrow and announced that they were going to build Lincoln an executive class sedan (i.e.- S-Class/7-Series competitor) off of a brand new platform out of the blue, you would see everyone on here shaking their heads and saying the same things about Ford as they are GM.

 

Big difference.

 

GM is dumping all this money into making Cadillac world-class while Chevrolet is less competitive by the day, Buick is floundering, and GMC is redundantly redundant.

 

Ford has shown that their main focus (pun slightly intended) was to right the parent brand before overhauling Lincoln. If we saw a big flagship RWD Lincoln, many of us would use logic to conclude that FMC deemed itself in a healthy enough place to pursue such a low-volume venture.

 

I see that you said that in your next-to-last paragraph, however.

 

 

 

Lexus LS runs from $75K stripper up to $120K hybrids. A nicely equipped AWD long wheelbase is $90K.

 

You can't compete with a S class with a $75K sedan.

 

7 Series and XJ both start at $74K, A8 starts at $77K.

 

Lexus LS doesn't fall short because of price. It falls short because in comparison to the primary four models in the segment, it sucks.

[silvrsvt]

7 Series and XJ both start at $74K, A8 starts at $77K.

 

Lexus LS doesn't fall short because of price. It falls short because in comparison to the primary four models in the segment, it sucks.

 

 

I don't think the LS sucks, just that its a bit invisible in the styling department...all the cars you have listed before it have panache in the styling dept, where as the LS is just kinda boring. I think people who are in this market want to show off a little bit.

[grbeck]

I don't think the LS sucks, just that its a bit invisible in the styling department...all the cars you have listed before it have panache in the styling dept, where as the LS is just kinda boring. I think people who are in this market want to show off a little bit.

The Lexus LS sells to those people who can afford a luxury car but don't necessarily care to blatantly advertise that fact. But you're right that most people who buy this sort of vehicle want the world to know that they can afford to spend big bucks on a car.

 

All of the buyers in this segment, however, don't want friends, relatives, co-workers, country club associates, etc., to say, "Why on earth did you buy Brand X?".

 

This is a big part of the challenge facing Cadillac as it tries to break into this segment.

Edited August 21, 2014 by grbeck

[Fgts]

 

Big difference.

 

GM is dumping all this money into making Cadillac world-class while Chevrolet is less competitive by the day, Buick is floundering, and GMC is redundantly redundant.

 

Ford has shown that their main focus (pun slightly intended) was to right the parent brand before overhauling Lincoln. If we saw a big flagship RWD Lincoln, many of us would use logic to conclude that FMC deemed itself in a healthy enough place to pursue such a low-volume venture.

 

I see that you said that in your next-to-last paragraph, however.

 

 

 

 

Buick floundering?, Buick been gaining since the BK and have 3 additional vehicles by 2016 (Opel convert,midsize CUV, rwd flagship). GMC is redundancy profitable though I do think some unique products added. Chevy is a bit hit-or-miss, IMO they need a better Malibu and some truck work.

 

Cadillac can make all their cars off the Ep2 platform (except Escalade of course) and save some money but again they'll lose sales to even Kia, not to mention the Camaro needs to gets replaced or no other rwd midsize platform won't be available.

 

Not being a fanboy myself but damming any manufacturer that don't do it Fords way or just concentrating on just profits while putting out bland vehicles don't always work. Trust me i'd love for Ford to put out an affordable rwd-midsize sedan or anything but an copy of an Asian commuter car.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Fgts

[xr7g428]

Gee, maybe Cadillac could leverage existing platforms and enter new market segments that way... Sounds familiar?

 

 

[RichardJensen]

Not being a fanboy myself

 

No. You're just failing to distinguish between what is good for business and what you like.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Buick floundering?, Buick been gaining since the BK and have 3 additional vehicles by 2016 (Opel convert,midsize CUV, rwd flagship). GMC is redundancy profitable though I do think some unique products added. Chevy is a bit hit-or-miss, IMO they need a better Malibu and some truck work.

 

Cadillac can make all their cars off the Ep2 platform (except Escalade of course) and save some money but again they'll lose sales to even Kia, not to mention the Camaro needs to gets replaced or no other rwd midsize platform won't be available.

 

Not being a fanboy myself but damming any manufacturer that don't do it Fords way or just concentrating on just profits while putting out bland vehicles don't always work. Trust me i'd love for Ford to put out an affordable rwd-midsize sedan or anything but an copy of an Asian commuter car.

Went back and checked Buick sales numbers and they're better than I thought. My bad on that one.

 

My main point is this: GM's position isn't as strong as their product investments would indicate, and yet they're planning to break into probably the hardest market to crack. Even Infiniti hasn't reentered that segment and their reputation and position is at worst as good as Cadillac right now.

 

Me, I'm not knocking the car itself. I just think the decision to build it is imprudent.

[OHV 16V]

...Even Infiniti hasn't reentered that segment...

Damn shame too. I really liked the last generation ('02-'06) Q45. Good-driving, reliable car and those headlamp designs were pretty impressive (back then).

[akirby]

No. You're just failing to distinguish between what is good for business and what you like.

The problem is you have all these people talking about what Cadillac needs and these people don't have a clue about how to run a business, control costs and turn a profit. They don't understand marketing and why people buy certain vehicles. They think it's an engineering competition.

 

And then there are all those other folks that don't work for GM...........

Edited August 22, 2014 by akirby

[Fgts]

 

No. You're just failing to distinguish between what is good for business and what you like.

And you do?. Honda make money hand over fist. Drop the F-Series and Mustang so Ford can be like them, because only ROI and profits counts....

[akirby]

And you do?. Honda make money hand over fist. Drop the F-Series and Mustang so Ford can be like them, because only ROI and profits counts....

Does Honda make a full sized pickup truck? Or commercial vans?

[RichardJensen]

And you do?

 

Not perfectly, but, apparently, better than you.

[silvrsvt]

And you do?. Honda make money hand over fist. Drop the F-Series and Mustang so Ford can be like them, because only ROI and profits counts....

 

Actually from what I've seen, Honda doesn't make that much money...I saw a story about automaker finances and they where like 6-7-8 on the list just above BMW...but this same article stated that VW was 1, Toyota 2, Daimler 3 GM 4, Nissan-Renualt 5 and Ford 6th....but given the accounting practices of some these companies, I really wonder.

[Bored of Pisteon]

Maybe they'll advertise this RWD version on a commercial spinning around on a turntable with dancing robot arms. Anybody sick and tired of seeing that commercial yet?

[silvrsvt]

http://jalopnik.com/the-flagship-cadillac-lts-will-go-into-production-next-1636754232

[RichardJensen]

Here's all the reasons why they're going to fail in a single quote:

 

"elite class of top-level luxury cars"

[RangerM]

When Hyundai and VW began falling in the late 1990s, they began offering the 10 years/100K miles warranty on their products. The strategy worked.

 

Could GM survive by doing such a thing?

 

A luxurious POS only stinks slightly less. Not saying that this Caddy is/will be, but without something to distinguish from the competition, it's shouting in a crowded room.

 

And if it turns out to suffer similar problems as its more plebeian brethren, it's only made worse.

 

Ford has had its share of problem product(s), but the products that do shine seem to buy some slack. I'm not aware of any GM product that shines that much more brightly than its competition that it becomes a standard by which others are measured. Corvette, maybe. The trucks/SUVs sell well, but they aren't any better (and in many ways worse) than the competition.