ATS-V Coupe shown off before LA Auto show

[papilgee4evaeva]

You know every GM brand would've gotten a version though...

 

Yeah, and *putting on RWD Mafia hat* that would have been AWESOME!

 

Seriously, though, if Alpha had become what Epsilon is now, there wouldn't be any talk of wasted resources of a platform. Of course, every Cadillac would have shared architecture with a low-class Chevrolet in that case.

 

But we all knew that GM couldn't make anything work with an impending Ch11.

[akirby]

Ytd-Oct Lacrosse 41,341, ES350 58,842 vs MKZs 29k.

Did Lincoln fail in a market of car "people want to buy"?.

 

BTW

 

I don't care about inventories or what else suburban lemmings wants, If I want that loaded Cadillac or Shelby that all that matters to me. All car sales come short vs F150 sales but do I want an F150?, no.

 

Here is the part you're not getting.

 

If Cadillac continues pursuing low volume vehicles on expensive platforms that are destined to lose money on their own instead of building vehicles that they can sell at a profit in significant volume then they're not going to be in business very long.

 

If the company can't stay in business then it doesn't matter what types of vehicles they build - you can't buy one anyway.

 

Let's say your favorite pizza joint decides to sell pizzas for $1. That's great, right? Except they'll be out of business in a month or two and now you've lost your favorite pizza. In order for a company to stay in business they have to make a profit.

 

All we're saying is Cadillac needs to get profitable before they go building niche vehicles. It doesn't mean they have to use FWD platforms like Lincoln. It just means they need to manage their costs better and not go building expensive new bespoke platforms for low volume vehicles. That may mean having some FWD based vehicles (like the SRX or the Lexus ES/RX) because you can get higher volume at lower cost. The profit from those vehicles will allow the company to build niche vehicles at lower margins.

 

It also means knowing your customers. Part of the reason ATS/CTS sales haven't taken off is that many Cadillac buyers find the ATS too small and the CTS too expensive.

[rmc523]

 

Yeah, and *putting on RWD Mafia hat* that would have been AWESOME!

 

Seriously, though, if Alpha had become what Epsilon is now, there wouldn't be any talk of wasted resources of a platform. Of course, every Cadillac would have shared architecture with a low-class Chevrolet in that case.

 

But we all knew that GM couldn't make anything work with an impending Ch11.

Which one is Epsilon again?

[Dave-S]

Only time will tell if Cadillac can turn things around and become profitable.

 

Their cars are very nice (IMHO) but they offer no special reason for a customer to choose them over their competition. They are priced the same as the imports they compete with. Then there is the matter of their Dealer Network. I seriously doubt the guy who buys a BMW or Mercedes will get treated the same way at most Cadillac dealerships as they are treated at most of the high end import dealerships. And I don't see any effort on GM or Cadillac's part to correct that issue. There is also the perception of quality that is really hard for Cadillac to overcome even though their cars are some of the best they have ever made and certainly as good as some of the competing imports. I don't think the cars themselves are the problem. All the other things mentioned are unfortunately. Lackluster sales will probably force Cadillac to back off on their pricing in order to move inventory. Not sure how that will affect profitability but until they can increase sales volume they are going to have some big problems.

 

As Lincoln moves forward with re-inventing itself in the years ahead, it will be interesting to see how they do it.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Which one is Epsilon again?

 

FWD/AWD, CD/D-class. Malibu/Impala, Regal/LaCrosse, XTS.

 

Don't worry, I got it down pat.

[rmc523]

Only time will tell if Cadillac can turn things around and become profitable.

 

Their cars are very nice (IMHO) but they offer no special reason for a customer to choose them over their competition. They are priced the same as the imports they compete with. Then there is the matter of their Dealer Network. I seriously doubt the guy who buys a BMW or Mercedes will get treated the same way at most Cadillac dealerships as they are treated at most of the high end import dealerships. And I don't see any effort on GM or Cadillac's part to correct that issue. There is also the perception of quality that is really hard for Cadillac to overcome even though their cars are some of the best they have ever made and certainly as good as some of the competing imports. I don't think the cars themselves are the problem. All the other things mentioned are unfortunately. Lackluster sales will probably force Cadillac to back off on their pricing in order to move inventory. Not sure how that will affect profitability but until they can increase sales volume they are going to have some big problems.

 

As Lincoln moves forward with re-inventing itself in the years ahead, it will be interesting to see how they do it.

 

And that's why Lincoln's turnaround plan is the way it is - they're focusing on the dealer experience first, so that that's up to a high standard, and therefore when they do get the great products rolling in more steadily, they'll have that distinction to go along with the great product, not just the product itself.

 

 

FWD/AWD, CD/D-class. Malibu/Impala, Regal/LaCrosse, XTS.

 

Don't worry, I got it down pat.

 

I'm glad someone can keep track of GM's Greek Alphabet soup platforms lol.

[Dave-S]

They first need to eliminate Ford Lincoln dealerships and have standalone dealerships. That might be difficult if the volume is not there based on Lincoln sales alone.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Dave-S

[fuzzymoomoo]

They first need to eliminate Ford Lincoln dealerships and have standalone dealerships. That might be difficult if the volume is not there based on Lincoln sales alone.

 

 

I believe that is part of their plan. There's been a few dealers around me that were ford/lincoln dealers that split. Yes they are still _____ ford and ____Lincoln, but no longer on the same lot so customers can see there is a distinction between the two.

[akirby]

They first need to eliminate Ford Lincoln dealerships and have standalone dealerships. That might be difficult if the volume is not there based on Lincoln sales alone.

 

They're at least forcing them into totally separate showrooms and staff. No reason they can't share the backend stuff but I agree the front end should be completely different.

[grbeck]

They first need to eliminate Ford Lincoln dealerships and have standalone dealerships. That might be difficult if the volume is not there based on Lincoln sales alone.

The problem, as you note, is that Lincoln cannot support very many standalone dealerships with its present volume.

 

BMW and Mercedes have relatively small dealer networks. Their dealers also tend to be concentrated in urban areas. You aren't going to find many BMW and Mercedes dealers in rural Pennsylvania, for example.

[Fgts]

 

Here is the part you're not getting.

 

If Cadillac continues pursuing low volume vehicles on expensive platforms that are destined to lose money on their own instead of building vehicles that they can sell at a profit in significant volume then they're not going to be in business very long.

 

If the company can't stay in business then it doesn't matter what types of vehicles they build - you can't buy one anyway.

 

Let's say your favorite pizza joint decides to sell pizzas for $1. That's great, right? Except they'll be out of business in a month or two and now you've lost your favorite pizza. In order for a company to stay in business they have to make a profit.

 

All we're saying is Cadillac needs to get profitable before they go building niche vehicles. It doesn't mean they have to use FWD platforms like Lincoln. It just means they need to manage their costs better and not go building expensive new bespoke platforms for low volume vehicles. That may mean having some FWD based vehicles (like the SRX or the Lexus ES/RX) because you can get higher volume at lower cost. The profit from those vehicles will allow the company to build niche vehicles at lower margins.

 

It also means knowing your customers. Part of the reason ATS/CTS sales haven't taken off is that many Cadillac buyers find the ATS too small and the CTS too expensive.

You still going back to profits when average buyers don't care at all just can they get a good deal. As some of the points I mentioned the carmaker have to make a profitable car to get into showrooms and get me to take a mortgage out to buy one.

 

Alpha's case was a bit unique as starting as a Pontiac, then killed in the BK, then resurrected as a Cadillac and to be used by other GM divisions unlike Sigma which was Caddy only .

 

Cadillac is not pursuing "value" luxury buyers anymore as people scream the CTS cost too much BMW wants 76k for a base, vinal-seat, no nav, 300hp engine 6-Series or 60k for the same option 5-Series when the CTS V-sports is 60k and a Platinum is 70k tops . The CTS was within 1500-1000 units from the 5 and E last month. It's cost to be a boss.

[akirby]

[Fgts]

Oh honey, you know talking to inanimate objects don't look good. I have an MKZ I got from Hertz you can have,im giving it away as I bought a New CTS-V.....

[akirby]

It's more productive than talking to you.