jpd80 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Colorado/Canyon has been on sale for 9 months and GM has sold a total of 37k units. Excuse me but they sold just under 10,000 units last months alone and sold 37K in the first four months of 2015. There is another shift starting on production at the end of this month so with two shifts, things should get interesting.. In the next few months , there's every likelihood that GM will catch and go past tacoma sales (~15K/mth) If that happens, you can bet that Ford will be thinking about Ranger, whether they act is another matter.. The only hole in Ford's SUV lineup is a rwd architecture BOF model smaller than the Expedition. So unless it's going to be a 2 door Expedition off the f150 platform, why wouldn't they use the Ranger platorm? It makes no sense to develop something new. Developing a Bronco off a SWB Raptor and using modified Expedition panels may be much more fun... Wider track also gives much better stability for roll over rating as compared to a Mid Sized truck, something Colorado struggles with - narrower track and similar COG as Half ton trucks. Edited May 9, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) I agree. F150/Raptor/Expedition is the only thing that makes sense for a Bronco platform if it's not Ranger. Of course vice versa is true as well was my point. Edited May 9, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) I agree. F150/Raptor/Expedition is the only thing that makes sense if it's not Ranger. Of course vice versa is true as well was my point. IF Colorado and Canyon press on and start scoring much higher sales, then we may see Ranger and Everest on the consideration list. They need more signs that the mid sized market is coming back to life. Most of FNA's plants are maxed out... maybe SKD or CKD to get around chicken tax? Edited May 9, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 The only hole in Ford's SUV lineup is a rwd architecture BOF model smaller than the Expedition If you're going to call that a hole, then they have thousands and thousands of holes for products that nobody wants. They're no longer making a two-seat business coupe, they're no longer making a turtleback sedan, they're no longer making a 2-speed planetary transmission. Look around you man, times. have. changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Let GM rage against the market, if any good comes from selling Colorado/Canyon, Ford can introduce Ranger in short order. Edited May 10, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) If you're going to call that a hole, then they have thousands and thousands of holes for products that nobody wants. They're no longer making a two-seat business coupe, they're no longer making a turtleback sedan, they're no longer making a 2-speed planetary transmission. Look around you man, times. have. changed. Sorry, I didn't mean it was a gaping hole. Just that it's the only conceivable thing a new Bronco (which you said was coming) could be. Between Escape, Edge, Flex, and Explorer they've got deep coverage of the CUV market and Expedition and EL cover the complete range of the full size 4 door SUV market. If the new Bronco isnt a smaller BOF SUV, what it is? It has to be either a 2 door full size or a 2/4 door midsize BOF SUV. Anything else would be redundant with an existing product.... Edited May 10, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I wonder if GM will force Fords hand on the mid size truck argument. Not because it would be a better financial decision than selling F-150's but because of GM potentially bringing down the truck ATP with them. If GM is selling the trucks for a significant discount over 1/2 tons and people start to flock that way, Ford may be forced to being the ranger out here. Better to lose F-150 sales to your own Ranger then to lose them to GM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I wonder if GM will force Fords hand on the mid size truck argument. Not because it would be a better financial decision than selling F-150's but because of GM potentially bringing down the truck ATP with them. If GM is selling the trucks for a significant discount over 1/2 tons and people start to flock that way, Ford may be forced to being the ranger out here. Better to lose F-150 sales to your own Ranger then to lose them to GM. GM is going to have to sell a lot of Canyonado's to make up what they are losing in sales of their own half tons. They'll be pushing their own half tons into third place behind RAM in order to achieve some sales of the mid size. In the long run, GM will be making less on those mid sizers because they are discounting them so much, and losing a second time to those who would have bought a Silverado instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Consider the source, but GM claims Colorado isn't cannibalizing half ton sales significantly. Of course there will be some lost sales, but a lot of those buyers probably didn't really want a half ton anyway. Selling someone something they don't really want isn't a great plan for a healthy long term relationship with the brand anyways. That seems to be Ford's plan currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 It has to be either a 2 door full size or a 2/4 door midsize BOF SUV. Why would it "have" to be midsized -or- BOF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Selling someone something they don't really want isn't a great plan for a healthy long term relationship with the brand anyways. That seems to be Ford's plan currently. Selling product that isn't sufficiently profitable isn't a great plan for a healthy long term anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) I didn't say it has to be midsize. It could easily be a 2 door full size. I think it's definitely BOF though. I can't imagine any possible iteration of a unibody CUV that Ford doesn't already sell. That is unless it's going to be something the size of a Suzuki Samurai built off the Fiesta platform. I highly doubt Ford would put the Bronco name on such a vehicle though. What do you think it will be? You seem confident that it's coming.... Edited May 10, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I didn't say it has to be midsize. It could easily be a 2 door full size. It will be neither. If my sources are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) Here we go with Richard's unnamed "sources" again. What a tease! Edited May 11, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 It will be neither. If my sources are correct. You're going to have to give the name of that person, otherwise they're just anonymous! Of course, Robert has stated it is coming... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 So it's not: A full size two door A midsize anything A full size four door (Expedition already exists) A four door crossover (Ford already has 4) What does that leave us? A Fiesta based Samurai fighter? The next Excursion? A new trim level on Expedition? (Ala what Raptor is to F150) Richard's sources must be confused! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) Heck, perhaps we're flawed in our assumption that it's an SUV at all. It could be a 2 door wagon version of the mustang! With 4wd of course! Edited May 11, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 You are confused about the sizes of vehicles. There is a sizable gap between the Explorer and something the size of a Samurai/Encore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) You're going to have to give the name of that person, otherwise they're just anonymous! Of course, Robert has stated it is coming... Hey, I'm doing my best to qualify everything I say with "if". And yeah, Robert's said that there's a Bronco coming, so that's confirmation of a sort. Edited May 11, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) You are confused about the sizes of vehicles. There is a sizable gap between the Explorer and something the size of a Samurai/Encore. Yeah. It's called Edge and Escape. Unless of course we're talking about something with real 4x4 (i.e. low range). Then I agree with you. But I don't see Ford making another Bronco II. At least not with 2 doors and real 4wd. And those are the only two things that would separate it from the Escape. Edited May 11, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Hey, I'm doing my best to qualify everything I say with "if". Just giving you a hard time... And yeah, Robert's said that there's a Bronco coming, so that's confirmation of a sort. That's enough confirmation to get my hopes up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) Yeah. It's called Edge and Escape. Unless of course we're talking about something with real 4x4 (i.e. low range). Then I agree with you. But I don't see Ford making another Bronco II. At least not with 2 doors and real 4wd. And those are the only two things that would separate it from the Escape. The Escape is not a midsize product. And you're displaying a pretty naive conception of 4wd/4x4 powertrains. You can easily have 'real' 4x4 without adding a reduction gear to the transfer case--the reduction gear is not what makes it 'real'. Edited May 11, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 So now The new Bronco is a midsize? What's Edge then? This still ain't making any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Is the Escape midsized? Are the Jeep SUVs BOF? Why are you still insisting that the 'only' Bronco configuration is "midsize BOF" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 And you're displaying a pretty naive conception of 4wd/4x4 powertrains. You can easily have 'real' 4x4 without adding a reduction gear to the transfer case--the reduction gear is not what makes it 'real'. Yeah. I only wrench on them on a weekly basis. Low range is what separates the real off road stuff (F series, Raptor, Expedition currently) from the crossover stuff. Look. If Ford wants another soft roader, then by all means let them build it. They'll probably even find a few buyers. But I just don't see any room between Escape, Edge, Flex, and Explorer. And I still don't think they'll put the name Bronco on something without low range. Not if they're serious about fighting Wrangler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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