tzach Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 You need empathy because ONE mustang model that you (and most of the others complaining) would never actually purchase doesn’t come with a manual, while all the other models that you might purchase still come with a manual? And the DCT not only offers better performance but probably higher ATPs and wider appeal? Mmmmkay. Your missing the point. I t is about the trend and not one model. Who knows what happens with even the GT in 10 years. I would assume most on this board love to drive, even though they don't care about a manual. What will you all be saying if cars were going to all autonomous. And laws were being considered to not allow drivers on public roads. Who would be complaining then? Well it would just be technology replacing what your input is no longer needed for like steering, accelerating and and braking. It is all being done better and more efficient so why are you complaining? Just sit there and enjoy the ride. Sucks doesn't it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 Your missing the point. I t is about the trend and not one model. Who knows what happens with even the GT in 10 years. I would assume most on this board love to drive, even though they don't care about a manual. What will you all be saying if cars were going to all autonomous. And laws were being considered to not allow drivers on public roads. Who would be complaining then? Well it would just be technology replacing what your input is no longer needed for like steering, accelerating and and braking. It is all being done better and more efficient so why are you complaining? Just sit there and enjoy the ride. Sucks doesn't it? My Uncle has a country placeThat no one knows about He says it used to be a farm Before the motor law 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Auto companies are building cars that the majority of the public wants to buy and that they can sell at a profit. There aren’t enough buyers for manuals in most vehicles and in others a DCT is a better option and more popular. Again it goes back to what people want to buy. If nobody wants to buy a conventional car and everyone wants an autonomous car then that’s what the mfrs will build. But I don’t see that happening at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Auto companies are building cars that the majority of the public wants to buy and that they can sell at a profit. There aren’t enough buyers for manuals in most vehicles and in others a DCT is a better option and more popular. Again it goes back to what people want to buy. If nobody wants to buy a conventional car and everyone wants an autonomous car then that’s what the mfrs will build. But I don’t see that happening at all. I partially agree with you but I'll add this to the thought. US manufacturers have notoriously thought they knew what Americans wanted more than Americans did. Their arrogance is one factor that lead to the Japanese domination of American auto sales. This was done by creating a self fulfilling prophesy. Hang your best selling cars out on the vine to rot; then discontinue them "because no one is buying cars". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzach Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) So if 80% of people wanted autonomius cars and the manufacturers decided it was cheaper to manufacture only autonomous or the government decided it was safer the 20% would not be unhappy about it? Edited May 21, 2018 by 72 Mach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I partially agree with you but I'll add this to the thought. US manufacturers have notoriously thought they knew what Americans wanted more than Americans did. Their arrogance is one factor that lead to the Japanese domination of American auto sales. This was done by creating a self fulfilling prophesy. Hang your best selling cars out on the vine to rot; then discontinue them "because no one is buying cars". But others including the Japanese are seeing exactly the same trend. Fewer sedans and more utilities. I don’t know why I have to keep saying this but the vaunted Accord which is BRAND NEW is down considerably and offering discounts - that never happened before. Camry is also down the last 2 years with a relatively new version. The entire market is down. It’s not just Ford and it’s not just domestics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I get the whole "I love my standard transmission" argument (I have a 1995 F-150 with a 300ci I-6 and 5 speed stick), but lets face it...they cannot beat an automatic in shifting precision and emissions regulations. They are not like the "slush-boxes" of yore... As long as it has a fluid coupling instead of a mechanical connection, it'll always be a slushbox. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 But lock-up converters have taken the slush out of the slushbox under many conditions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 But lock-up converters have taken the slush out of the slushbox under many conditions. Not down low in the revs, which is where it matters to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 But lock-up converters have taken the slush out of the slushbox under many conditions. Hahahahaha! I would love it if the lockup converter in the 4R100 in my Excursion would function in anywhere near a logical manner. It's only got 75k on it so I'll be stuck with it for years yet, but I'm really looking forward to the day I put a ZF S6-650 in it's place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Hahahahaha! I would love it if the lockup converter in the 4R100 in my Excursion would function in anywhere near a logical manner. It's only got 75k on it so I'll be stuck with it for years yet, but I'm really looking forward to the day I put a ZF S6-650 in it's place. You really need to drive something with a nice, modern automatic... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 You really need to drive something with a nice, modern automatic... Like my dad's '17 F-150? Same story, just more gears.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 You can get a Goldwing with a 7 speed DCT. No clutch lever. That'll be my next bike because of my carpal tunnel. The world keeps on spinning whether you like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Like my dad's '17 F-150? Same story, just more gears.... Let's just say you're biased then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 You can get a Goldwing with a 7 speed DCT. No clutch lever."You can get" being the operative phrase. I don't think anybody is saying that you shouldn't be able to get a DCT, or even that the GT500 shouldn't have one, just that your choice shouldn't be between two self-shifting transmissions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Keep in mind the goal of manufacturers: to make money. Will offering a DCT increase your customer base and enable you to make more money off the vehicle than the cost of the transmission and certification? Likely. Will offering a manual increase your customer base and enable you to make more money off the vehicle than the cost of the transmission and certification? Likely not. So there you have it I expect the manual to hang around in the Mustang for quite some time, just not in the GT500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Let's just say you're biased then... I'm biased because I want the transmission to shift and lockup in such a manner that it maximizes engine output by keeping it in its powerband and makes driving enjoyable instead of maximizing the parameters EPA cares about? I have been in automatics that have been built and tuned for performance. Even a sloppy old C6 with the right internals and a converter to match the engine is bolted to is a joy to drive. It's even better with a lockup o/d trans like the 4R100, and better still with a 6R80. But let's admit that factory tunes are taylored first and foremost for the EPA tests and the actual customer a distant second. That fact has much to do with the demise of the manual trans. Much harder to control a human shifter on the EPA tests than a programmable automatic transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I'm biased because I want the transmission to shift and lockup in such a manner that it maximizes engine output by keeping it in its powerband and makes driving enjoyable instead of maximizing the parameters EPA cares about? I have been in automatics that have been built and tuned for performance. Even a sloppy old C6 with the right internals and a converter to match the engine is bolted to is a joy to drive. It's even better with a lockup o/d trans like the 4R100, and better still with a 6R80. But let's admit that factory tunes are taylored first and foremost for the EPA tests and the actual customer a distant second. That fact has much to do with the demise of the manual trans. Much harder to control a human shifter on the EPA tests than a programmable automatic transmission. Try putting one in sport mode. Or, better yet, drive a Super Duty diesel, turn on the exhaust brake, put it in tow/haul mode, and it drives darn close to a manual without the need to actual shift it yourself. Or, just put it in 'M' mode and shift it yourself. They could be programmed to be a lot closer to what you are asking, and along with firmer shifts, would be better for the EPA. However, consumers don't want a stiff transmission, then want something smooth with imperceptible shifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Drive a 2018 Mustang 10 speed in either track or drag strip mode. I think most people would be surprised at what a slushbox can feel like and equally surprised that Ford is offering such a thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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