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Minivan vs 3 row SUV - why are minivans looked down upon?

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1 hour ago, markfnc said:

Our son was born in 2001.  We bought a 2001 Taurus Wagon as it was easier to get stroller etc. in and out over a trunk.  In 2005 we bought a 2005 Freestar.  

 

You kept your Taurus wagon a lot long than we did, the sloping roofline and rear door opening made it hard (for us) to get a kid in/out of a car seat.  Plus, it got T-boned when it was 1 week old, and I rarely keep vehicles after they sustain fairly major damage, no matter how good the repair is.

 

HRG

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18 hours ago, papilgee4evaeva said:

From what I have experienced with the Sedona/Carnival, they've been positioning it as the "anti-minivan" since the last generation, and I guess to them this is the next logical step.  Whether it's successful remains to be seen.

 

Cars.com posted its review of 2022 Kia Carnival today, written by Jennifer Geiger. Mrs. Geiger praised the Carnival's powertrain, feature set, and value, but was less impressed by its handling. The biggest criticisms of Carnival, to no one's surprise, are its "SUV styling" and "Kia’s smoke-and-mirrors attempt to call it anything other than a minivan".

 

Overall assessment was "the new Carnival is a captivating competitor." 2022 Kia Carnival Review: Almost Magic | News | Cars.com

 

kia-carnival-sx-prestige-2022--01-angle-

kia-carnival-sx-prestige-2022--74-center

kia-carnival-sx-prestige-2022--46-interi

kia-carnival-sx-prestige-2022--49-interi

 

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On 5/4/2021 at 7:34 PM, rperez817 said:

 

Cars.com posted its review of 2022 Kia Carnival today, written by Jennifer Geiger. Mrs. Geiger praised the Carnival's powertrain, feature set, and value, but was less impressed by its handling. The biggest criticisms of Carnival, to no one's surprise, are its "SUV styling" and "Kia’s smoke-and-mirrors attempt to call it anything other than a minivan".

 

Overall assessment was "the new Carnival is a captivating competitor." 2022 Kia Carnival Review: Almost Magic | News | Cars.com

 

kia-carnival-sx-prestige-2022--01-angle-

kia-carnival-sx-prestige-2022--74-center

kia-carnival-sx-prestige-2022--46-interi

kia-carnival-sx-prestige-2022--49-interi

 


That’s a ridiculous criticism, as this is one of the few minivans I find appealing, and it’s because of its SUV styling.  

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On 5/20/2021 at 10:21 PM, tbone said:

That’s a ridiculous criticism, as this is one of the few minivans I find appealing, and it’s because of its SUV styling.  

 

Cars.com isn't the only one to criticize Kia for those things. Consumer Reports' first drive report also mentions how silly it is that Kia is using SUV styling elements for 2022 Carnival. 2022 Kia Carnival Road Test - Consumer Reports

 

"Not since 2005 to 2008, when General Motors tried to improve sales of its class-trailing minivans (the Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana SV6, and Saturn Relay) by hailing their SUV-ness, has an automaker gone through such pains to cast its minivan as an SUV-like vehicle.

That’s silly."

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47 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Cars.com isn't the only one to criticize Kia for those things. Consumer Reports' first drive report also mentions how silly it is that Kia is using SUV styling elements for 2022 Carnival. 2022 Kia Carnival Road Test - Consumer Reports


Magazines, bloggers and websites say lots of stupid things.  Repeating stupid things doesn’t make you right,

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, akirby said:

Magazines, bloggers and websites say lots of stupid things.  Repeating stupid things doesn’t make you right

 

In the case of 2022 Kia Carnival for the U.S. market, it's Kia Motor America's marketing department that's doing stupid things (in fact repeating the same stupid things that GM did over 15 years ago, just as Consumer Reports pointed out). Magazines, bloggers, and websites are right to call them out on it.

Edited by rperez817

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On 1/8/2021 at 9:53 PM, akirby said:

I think it’s 90% just based on styling.  I’ve liked SUVs since we bought our 1993 Explorer.  Have never liked station wagon or minivan styling.  Has nothing to do with image.

 

I agree with you. Never looked down on minivans but I like trucks and SUVs better.

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We chose a minivan (18' Odyssey) over an SUV because we already own an F150. Sliding doors matter :) Especially if you have kids in car seats. We didnt care about the stigma or trash talking. It serves our need and hauls a** when it needs to. Especially since its now / was considered a drivers van... :) 

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13 minutes ago, 75032F150 said:

We chose a minivan (18' Odyssey) over an SUV 

 

Excellent choice 75032F150 sir! Does your Odyssey have the 9-speed ZF transmission or the 10-speed Honda transmission?

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5 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Excellent choice 75032F150 sir! Does your Odyssey have the 9-speed ZF transmission or the 10-speed Honda transmission?

 

We have an Elite, so the 10 speed. 40K miles and 3 years on, its holding up well. We bought the extended warranty just in case. :)

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, 75032F150 said:

We have an Elite, so the 10 speed. 40K miles and 3 years on, its holding up well. We bought the extended warranty just in case. :)

 

Very nice! The 10-speed tranny is great, definitely better than the ZF 9-speed. A friend of mine waited for the '22 model year to buy a Honda Odyssey because the 10-speed plus LED headlamps became standard on all trim levels that year. He got an EX with cloth seating surfaces.

 

Wishing you many more enjoyable miles in your Odyssey Elite!

 

Edited by rperez817

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"Not since 2005 to 2008, when General Motors tried to improve sales of its class-trailing minivans (the Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana SV6, and Saturn Relay) by hailing their SUV-ness, has an automaker gone through such pains to cast its minivan as an SUV-like vehicle.

That’s silly."

The styling of those vans had nothing to do with their flagging sales.  They just... sucked at everything.

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12 minutes ago, papilgee4evaeva said:

The styling of those vans had nothing to do with their flagging sales.  They just... sucked at everything.

 

 I agree. Horrible at everything. Even the ford products (With all their flaws) were better than the GM offerings. Neither had a chance due to the Japanese products at the time... 

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3 hours ago, papilgee4evaeva said:

They just... sucked at everything.

 

Yes sir. The GMT201 minivans were woeful. What Consumer Reports is saying is that GM's attempt to make them more "SUV like" resulted in an even worse product than would be the case otherwise.  

 

Unlike the GMT201 vans, 2022 Kia Carnival is a very competent product. Kia Motor America's marketing for it unnecessarily muddies the waters.

 

More from Consumer Reports' first impressions of 2022 Kia Carnival.

"The minivan basics are all here: two big sliding side doors; flexible seating for seven or eight passengers; a giant well behind the third-row seat, so you can carry luggage for those passengers; easy access; and good visibility. Pretty much everything that many similarly sized SUVs don’t offer."

 

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir. The GMT201 minivans were woeful. What Consumer Reports is saying is that GM's attempt to make them more "SUV like" resulted in an even worse product than would be the case otherwise.  

 

Unlike the GMT201 vans, 2022 Kia Carnival is a very competent product. Kia Motor America's marketing for it unnecessarily muddies the waters.

 

More from Consumer Reports' first impressions of 2022 Kia Carnival.

 

 

 


Aka, they’re hellbent in it not following the exact minivan formula design wise so they’re putting up a stink.

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22 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

In the case of 2022 Kia Carnival for the U.S. market, it's Kia Motor America's marketing department that's doing stupid things (in fact repeating the same stupid things that GM did over 15 years ago, just as Consumer Reports pointed out). Magazines, bloggers, and websites are right to call them out on it.


The difference is that was 15 years ago and GM’s designs were ugly. The Carnival is not ugly.  

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1 hour ago, tbone said:


The difference is that was 15 years ago and GM’s designs were ugly. The Carnival is not ugly.  


I don’t get all the hate.  It’s the best looking minivan by far.

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Minivan's work well for people with more than 2 kids.   If you don't have more than 2 kids, then why go this route.   They have awful resale value and let's face it, there is not a good looking one out there.

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9 hours ago, silverboost said:

If you don't have more than 2 kids, then why go this route. 

 

Because minivans' versatility is unmatched by any similarly sized and priced crossover vehicle for hauling people and cargo. They make a lot of sense for people with more than 2 kids, 2 or fewer kids, or no kids. 

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I saw one of these in the Disney parking lot over the weekend.  It looked pretty good to me (for a minivan).

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Motor Trend comparison test for 2021 and 2022 minivans in the U.S. 2022 Kia Carnival vs. Chrysler Pacifica, Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna: Minivan Luxury Liners (motortrend.com)

 

4th Place: Toyota Sienna

Pros: Standard hybrid powertrain, EPA-rated 35 mpg combined with AWD, practical center console.

Cons: Engine noise, looks sportier than it is, dated-feeling infotainment system.

Verdict: Amazing fuel economy and good storage, but poor brake pedal feel and lack of family-friendly features relegate it to this spot.

3rd Place: Chrysler Pacifica

Pros: Good handling for the class, Stow 'N Go flexibility, high-res and easy-to-use infotainment system.

Cons: Lackluster interior material choices, the priciest, few showstopper features.

Verdict: The driver's choice, but its eye-popping MSRP and segment-trailing materials mean this former segment leader has been passed by the competition.

2nd Place: Honda Odyssey

Pros: Quickest in the test, has hill-friendly shift paddles, best third-row access.

Cons: Outdated infotainment setup, front-drive only, third row somewhat difficult to raise and lower.

 

Verdict: A really good all-rounder, surpassed only by the greatness of our winner.

1st Place: Kia Carnival

Pros: Incredible value, long list of thoughtful features for the whole family, upscale styling.

Cons: VIP seats don't move for people and cargo, no available hybrid or AWD, ride is a little too plush.

Verdict: Big value, tons of comfort, attractive looks, modern tech—the list goes on. The Carnival shakes up the segment.

 

2021-Chrysler-Pacifica-S-Limited-AWD-202

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4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Motor Trend comparison test for 2021 and 2022 minivans in the U.S. 2022 Kia Carnival vs. Chrysler Pacifica, Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna: Minivan Luxury Liners (motortrend.com)

 

4th Place: Toyota Sienna

Pros: Standard hybrid powertrain, EPA-rated 35 mpg combined with AWD, practical center console.

Cons: Engine noise, looks sportier than it is, dated-feeling infotainment system.

Verdict: Amazing fuel economy and good storage, but poor brake pedal feel and lack of family-friendly features relegate it to this spot.

3rd Place: Chrysler Pacifica

Pros: Good handling for the class, Stow 'N Go flexibility, high-res and easy-to-use infotainment system.

Cons: Lackluster interior material choices, the priciest, few showstopper features.

Verdict: The driver's choice, but its eye-popping MSRP and segment-trailing materials mean this former segment leader has been passed by the competition.

2nd Place: Honda Odyssey

Pros: Quickest in the test, has hill-friendly shift paddles, best third-row access.

Cons: Outdated infotainment setup, front-drive only, third row somewhat difficult to raise and lower.

 

Verdict: A really good all-rounder, surpassed only by the greatness of our winner.

1st Place: Kia Carnival

Pros: Incredible value, long list of thoughtful features for the whole family, upscale styling.

Cons: VIP seats don't move for people and cargo, no available hybrid or AWD, ride is a little too plush.

Verdict: Big value, tons of comfort, attractive looks, modern tech—the list goes on. The Carnival shakes up the segment.

 

2021-Chrysler-Pacifica-S-Limited-AWD-202

 

Impossible.  It can't win that because it doesn't look enough like a minivan.

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14 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Impossible.  It can't win that because it doesn't look enough like a minivan.

 

Kia Carnival? It acts like a minivan and does so very well, despite Kia Motors America's attempts to confuse U.S. customers with the term "MPV".

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Incidentally, Motor Trend's minivan comparison test 6 years ago also had Kia at the top with its previous generation Sedona/Carnival. The Big Test: Minivans - Chrysler, Honda, Kia, Nissan, and Toyota (motortrend.com)

 

5th Place: Chrysler Town & Country

The long-in-the-tooth Chrysler is tops in sales but last in our Big Test. Still, the T&C is a great value and shows promise for the future.

4th Place: Nissan Quest

A comfortable cabin isn't enough to overcome the Quest's lackluster crash-test scores or driving dynamics.

3rd Place: Toyota Sienna

It doesn't blow our socks off subjectively, but it's tough to argue with the Sienna's stellar efficiency and performance.

2nd Place: Honda Odyssey

A long-time MT favorite is still a segment standout and excellent hauler, but it's not our Big Test winner.

1st Place: Kia Sedona

A van with this much style, substance, and safety might be all it takes to make the minivan cool again.

 

2014-2015-midsize-family-vans-front-end-

 

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