Dropped by a Kia dealership

[Roadrunner]

It's Sunday so I dropped by the Kia dealership (Ovaltine's ears perk up)

 

Here's what I thought:

 

--Spectra

Exterior-overall: Actually looks pretty good. Really think the back end of the car looks sharp.

 

on the flip side:

Exterior-Bpillar paint: Looked like it would flake off sometime soon, which shocked me. In other words, looked cheaper than the flat black or gray paint one finds on Ford, GM, Honda and Toyota for their blacked-out B-pillars.

 

Interior-seats and internal padding: I was unimpressed with both the Spectra SX and LX cloth seating, as I thought they looked like cheap, almost furry cloth. I understand that the cloth design probably made it look furry. I thought Kia cheaped out with the cloth design, even compared to the Rio I saw. Also, are there any leather options?

 

Interior-gearshift: Was impressed with the leather covering on the gearshift of the automatic trans. Also liked the look of the manual shifter I saw on the sample LX.

 

Interior-Instrument cluster: Thought it was okay.

Kia and Hyundai uses blue lighting, right? (At least in the Optima and Accent I know they do.)

 

Interior-Steering wheel: Thought it was okay.

 

Interior-middle compartment: Unimpressed, too small. While appearing slightly bigger than the Ford Focus' middle compartment, it was tiny compared to what I expect.

 

Interior-E Brake: Looks ugly but functional. Standard for 2006 Kias. I've seen better in the Fusion and in Toyotas. Looks stubby, actually.

 

 

...To be continued for the Rio and Optima; I've got other commitments to get to.

 

In a nutshell:

Optima-exterior: Could look nicer.

Optima-interior: Some good, some bad; physical dash design, though, looked like the final-gen Buick Century (bad).

Optima-instrument cluster: Thought the instrument cluster was clearer to read than the Fusion, though -- like how Pontiacs have that clear-to-read instrument cluster.

 

Rio-exterior tires: How F'in small are these Kias running?

Rio-exterior: The rear bumper piece that is not color-keyed to the body looks cheap, cheap, cheap.

 

 

--Brand-wide for sedans:

Exterior-Side mirrors: For the Western U.S., I thought the side mirrors were too small. They were in line with the Pontiac G6 in size, and that lack of side mirror was one factor why I chose against getting a G6.

[06StangAwesomecar]

No Oval to tell you how biased and wrong you are, and how only Kia sell the best cars :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Had to do it,,,

[mettech]

Check out the Hy Azera and see what you think.

[Michael Reynolds]

Check out the Hy Azera and see what you think.

 

What about it? Alot better than the XG it replaces, but it still comes across as nothing but a Korean Buick. If I had to put money on anything Kia/Hyundai makes it would be the Sonata (and I'm not much of a fan of that car either).

[Ovaltine]

No Oval to tell you how biased and wrong you are, and how only Kia sell the best cars :lol:

Had to do it,,,

 

Hey... I think it was a fair and non-biased assessment!!! :tease:

Roadrunner gave an honest assessment of what he observed and his feelings about it. Good job.

 

 

The only correction I can make is that Hyundai (and now KIA) use a black tape to create the blacked out B (and some C) pillars. It shouldn't flake, and so far mine shows no signs of any peeling.

 

It's obviously a cheaper way to accomplish the task, but I am starting to see it used on a couple of different manufacturer's lines, so it must be gaining a toehold. Sort of how Ford's famous roof snap in "ditch" moldings on the Tempo, and black plastic moldings on the Thunderbird became accepted ways of covering up the roof and quarter panel welds. Prior to that the crevices had to be filled, ground, and sanded at the factory. That way looked better, but it HAD to be way more expensive.

 

RR: Which version of the Spectra did you say had the small rear passenger compartment? The Spectra sedan's interior measurements actually put it in the mid-size car class according to what you read online. My personal experience has my almost adult height kids sitting back there quite comfortably. The width is a bit narrow for 3 comfortably, but head and leg room are excellent.

 

Here's how cars.about.com puts it:

 

"Adult-size back seat passengers have ample room both for their knees and for their feet. Of course, the trade-off is somewhat shorter seat cushions than you'd get in, say, a full size sedan like Kia's new Amanti. Rear seat headroom should be adequate for everyone except late cuts from the Pistons. "

 

The measurements comparison: (Compliments of http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars )

 

Spectra (in inches):

Headroom (Row 2) 38.2

Hiproom (Row 2) 53.9

Legroom (Row 2) 35.4

Shoulder Room (Row 2) 53.9

 

Focus:

Headroom (Row 2) 38.4

Hiproom (Row 2) 50.7

Legroom (Row 2) 37.6

Shoulder Room (Row 2) 53.6

 

For contrast, here's a Fusion:

Headroom (Row 2) 37.8

Hiproom (Row 2) 53.4

Legroom (Row 2) 37.0

Shoulder Room (Row 2) 56.5

 

It looks like the Focus and Spectra compare pretty favorably, splitting the 'wins'. It looks like they

both stack pretty well against the Fusion too!

 

-Ovaltine

Edited October 2, 2006 by Ovaltine

[Ovaltine]

What about it? Alot better than the XG it replaces, but it still comes across as nothing but a Korean Buick. If I had to put money on anything Kia/Hyundai makes it would be the Sonata (and I'm not much of a fan of that car either).

 

Looks like both Hyundai AND Buick have come a long way as of late!

 

 

Azera:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/...cs_pricing.html

 

0-60 mph: 6.8 seconds

 

 

Lucerne:

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2526a.shtml

 

0-60 mph: 7.2 seconds

 

 

 

It also looks like the 3.5L can come none-too-soon to the Ford/Mercury/Lincoln lineup:

 

Milan:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...63/pageId=67280

0-60 mph: 7.9 seconds

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited October 2, 2006 by Ovaltine

[Michael Reynolds]

Looks like both Hyundai AND Buick have come a long way as of late!

Azera:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/...cs_pricing.html

 

0-60 mph: 6.8 seconds

Lucerne:

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2526a.shtml

 

0-60 mph: 7.2 seconds

It also looks like the 3.5L can come none-too-soon to the Ford/Mercury/Lincoln lineup:

 

Milan:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...63/pageId=67280

0-60 mph: 7.9 seconds

-Ovaltine

 

Well if we want to get all technical the Milan nor Fusion are in the same class as the Lucerne and Azera. That duty goes to the 500/Montego (and yes I know they aren't anything to write home about in straight line performance).

 

As far as that 0-60 mumbojumbo is concerned, conditions ought to be stated in detail so that consumers are being painted a clear picture. Duratecs are known to take at least 3,000 miles to break in fully, and until that break in point fuel economy and performance will not be fully utilized. Which also makes me wonder if they are pulling the battery power on these vehicles, allowing the computer controls to reset themselves.

 

I fail to see what the lack of the Duratec 35 has to do with any of this, because as it stands the V6 in the Fusion stacks up pretty favorably against its competition. Besides I never made issue about any car lacking power, it was more along the lines of feature content, refinement, and driving characteristics. None of which seem to be strong selling points from my perspective. FWIW, as much pissing and moaning that was done around here about the lack of sat. radio, navigation systems, and aux jacks it seems Kia/Hyundai has been even slower than Ford to adapt any of those conviences.

[bec5150]

Another point with 0-60 is that customers will measure how SMOOTHLY a car accelerates, probably more than how FAST it accelerates.

 

Case in point is my wife's Honda CR-V. On paper, it's only a half a second slower than my father-in-law's 1998 Intrique. However, his Intrique, with the trusty 3.8L GM/Buick mill, develops so much torque on the bottom end that it will do 0-60 in, oh, let's say 12 seconds and never pull above 3500RPM.

 

Meanwhile, the CR-V, with the Honda 4cyl, has only 160FT-LBs of torque and most of that's found up in the higher RPM range, even with the i-VTEC. The net result is that a 0-60 run of 12 seconds would still require 4500RPM or more and, with Honda's relative lack of noise isolation, you get to hear the music of a twin cam four. Unfortunately, some see this music as a disturbance and won't "give it the beans" because of the noise.

 

The net result is that a "big torque" engine that can develop acceleration at lower RPM "seems" faster than a "revver."

 

So I guess my point is I have never been one to watch #'s and use them as a basis of anything other than talking points. They really aren't relavent to driving a car.

[MGallun]

Well if we want to get all technical the Milan nor Fusion are in the same class as the Lucerne and Azera. That duty goes to the 500/Montego (and yes I know they aren't anything to write home about in straight line performance).

 

As far as that 0-60 mumbojumbo is concerned, conditions ought to be stated in detail so that consumers are being painted a clear picture. Duratecs are known to take at least 3,000 miles to break in fully, and until that break in point fuel economy and performance will not be fully utilized. Which also makes me wonder if they are pulling the battery power on these vehicles, allowing the computer controls to reset themselves.

 

I fail to see what the lack of the Duratec 35 has to do with any of this, because as it stands the V6 in the Fusion stacks up pretty favorably against its competition. Besides I never made issue about any car lacking power, it was more along the lines of feature content, refinement, and driving characteristics. None of which seem to be strong selling points from my perspective. FWIW, as much pissing and moaning that was done around here about the lack of sat. radio, navigation systems, and aux jacks it seems Kia/Hyundai has been even slower than Ford to adapt any of those conviences.

 

 

just a note on times..

 

went to track this weekend, temp was 64 clear no wind..

 

1 fusion with 1800 miles ran 3 runs, all where 15.6-15.7 at 91-92 mph area

2nd fusion with 10k on odo... 3 runs, 15.2-15.3 at 93 area...

 

both bone stock... god i love autos.. i would take my contour before run 3 runs and get like 15.5 one time and then 16 the next.. manual are faster if you can just do it right lol.

 

saw the normal civics and stuff, but i did see 1 new camry v6 and 1 new accord v6, both autos, both ran 15.4s each time.

Edited October 2, 2006 by MGallun

[MGallun]

Were those with, or without the optional Nacho dispensers? :shrug:

 

ya, i had my nacho\taco cooker in my car, maybe i should take it out next year, may have created some uneeded drag.

[Michael Reynolds]

ya, i had my nacho\taco cooker in my car, maybe i should take it out next year, may have created some uneeded drag.

 

Hmm, mine has a fajita serving stand where the pop up lid on the dash would be. I also found a few illegal aliens in the trunk, and I have a big sticker on the front winshield stating that my car was made by Mexican Jumping Beans with Pride

 

Seriously though I understand how it feels to be downsized out of job due to foreign labor (I've had it happen twice), but cheap shots aint making it any better.

[Michael Reynolds]

Nope, but it sure is fun. :happy feet:

 

LOL, :gang:

[Roadrunner]

Looks like both Hyundai AND Buick have come a long way as of late!

Azera:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/...cs_pricing.html

 

0-60 mph: 6.8 seconds

Lucerne:

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2526a.shtml

0-60 mph: 7.2 seconds

 

I'd imagine the Buick is heavier, for one -- what are the curb weights for those two models? (I could look those up, but I can't be arsed)

 

RR: Which version of the Spectra did you say had the small rear passenger compartment? (many paragraphs follow)

 

Huh? I never commented about the rear passenger room, IIRC. Are you speaking about this:

 

Interior-middle compartment: Unimpressed, too small. While appearing slightly bigger than the Ford Focus' middle compartment, it was tiny compared to what I expect.

 

What I am talking about is the middle compartment, meaning the space container often placed between the seats -- both bucket and bench -- on modern passenger cars. With that in mind, I thought it could have been built larger.

 

However, one caveat is that the middle compartment on the Focus is absolutely tiny -- only enough to carry a pack of American* cigs and a cell phone.

 

In fact, looking at http://www.kia.com/newspectra/spectra-photos.php

and then clicking Interior and then scrolling to the second image, I saw what the Spectra had for a middle compartment. Too small. Deeper than the Focus', yes, but smaller (by far) than the Fusion. From looking I'd say it can hold 3 packs of cigs and a cell phone. Bad.

 

Edit: Like the Fusion, the Spectra has a dual-section middle compartment -- i.e. there are two levels. Apparently it fits a cell phone and a lighter (I guess Kia is smoker-friendly... or 420-friendly... who knows.) However, it still is all smaller than the Fusion.

 

--

More comments on the Rio and Optima to follow.

 

--

* - what's this about American cigs? Simple - Canadian and British brands like Dunhill (my current pack to try) are built in a square box -- packed in 2 rows x 10 columns. American cigs (like Marlboro Reds) come as 3 rows x 7 cigs, one row being 3 x 6.

Edited October 2, 2006 by Roadrunner

[Ovaltine]

Huh? I never commented about the rear passenger room, IIRC. Are you speaking about this:

 

Interior-middle compartment: Unimpressed, too small. While appearing slightly bigger than the Ford Focus' middle compartment, it was tiny compared to what I expect.

 

What I am talking about is the middle compartment, meaning the space container often placed between the seats -- both bucket and bench -- on modern passenger cars. With that in mind, I thought it could have been built larger.

 

Ahhhhhh. Gotcha.

 

I thought for sure that your were talking about the rear passenger room. It hasn't been too often on here where different car's *console* storage spaces have been compared, so I assumed that the "interior middle compartment" meant the middle space between the front seats and the trunk.... or should I say "boot"? ;-)

 

I don't smoke, so I'm not up on the 'cig' thing. I *do* know that my console holds 8-10 CD's, which works out pretty good for me. Esp. compared to previous cars I've owned. I'm not sure what the Fusion has in this particular arena, so I'll accept your observation there.

 

- As far as the Rio's tires go, the website says that the standard sedan runs 14's and the Rio5 run's 15's. Definitely not impressive by today's standards, but my 80's Escort ran 13's.

 

- I agree with your assessment on the new Optima too. It appears to be a decent car for the money, but the exterior styling is WAY to bland/generic, and the dash board is just 'okay'. The dark gray and maroon EX models don't look too bad with the dark leather interior, but I think actually like the looks my Spectra compared to the lower end Optimas due to the Spectra having a little more 'personality' in the styling.

 

-Ovaltine

Edited October 3, 2006 by Ovaltine

[bec5150]

Wife's Festiva ran 12"s all the way around. I could put tires on it, installed and out the door, with tax, for under $100 bucks.

[Roadrunner]

I *do* know that my console holds 8-10 CD's, which works out pretty good for me. Esp. compared to previous cars I've owned. I'm not sure what the Fusion has in this particular arena, so I'll accept your observation there.

 

I actually find that a little hard to believe, from the photos. That is, unless you stack the CDs on top of each other. (You are talking full-size jewel cases, correct?)

 

I don't carry CDs often in my car, so sometime I'll have to bring some out to test the size.

 

Also, does the Spectra come in leather at all? If not, then its competitors win hands down in the American market.

[Ovaltine]

Hey, Oval. You gonna buy your KIA's when the North takes over the factories? :fan:

 

LINK

 

I guess I'm not the only one tired of subsidizing foreign countries.

 

Naw..... because Kim Jong's so inept, he'll ruin'em. He can't even keep his people fed. You can stop fretting about Hyundai or KIA production and export should that ever happen. (The Chinese on the other hand, are proving that they MAY be able to pull manufacturing and exporting thing off, so Korea may be only a sidenote in the ongoing auto wars story someday.)

 

The output from the Alabama plant would probably dry up too, because he'd screw up the supplier relationships on this side of the pond.

 

If that did indeed happen, then I definitely would look elsewhere. I'm in agreement that you don't (at least) subsidize dictators that want to kill you. That's why I won't buy any Citgo products.... and haven't for quite awhile now.

 

-Ovaltine

Edited October 3, 2006 by Ovaltine

[Ovaltine]

I actually find that a little hard to believe, from the photos. That is, unless you stack the CDs on top of each other. (You are talking full-size jewel cases, correct?)

 

I don't carry CDs often in my car, so sometime I'll have to bring some out to test the size.

 

Also, does the Spectra come in leather at all? If not, then its competitors win hands down in the American market.

The CD's go in, flipped on their side, side by side. It's true. It's a perfect fit kind of deal. Obviously the opening was designed for them. You don't have to wedge them in either. There a good 3-4 millimeter gap on the ends.

 

Ceratos (What the Spectra is called in Europe and Japan) come in leather, but the U.S. spec version doesn't. I think it's because of the price they can get for them in Europe vs. what people will pay for them here. Keep in mind... I got my totally loaded (every option) Spectra for $14,400 *out the door*. Tax, title, dest, car, EVERYTHING for $14,400. And my option list is lonnnnngggg. So... I think omitting the leather is one way they are able to do that. It *would* be nice for it to be optional for those who are willing to pay a few more bucks.

 

In all honesty, I would wager that they know that the *average* KIA purchaser in the U.S. (up to now) have not been the discerning kind of folks who demand leather in their smaller cars.

 

I bet that will change as the reputation improves, and they can pick up a few more $$$ per car.

 

Here's a small pic of a Cerato interior where you can plainly see the seats are leather:

 

-Ovaltine

Edited October 3, 2006 by Ovaltine

[Roadrunner]

Here's a small pic of a Cerato interior where you can plainly see the seats are leather:

 

But it's not available in North America, so... that doesn't make much difference for this market.

 

More comments to come.

[01FOCI]

I thought that most cramerys and accordians and the like sold in great numersfitted with 4 bangers? I dont know if that still holds true but if memory serves correctly all this performance numbers are really meaningless for the vast majority of the cars. I would venture to say from the large amount of 4 banger numbers coupled with all the nuckleheads who cannot merge 0-60 times are a nill point for most of the nation. Granted everyone likes to talk about how fast their car is but when it comes to actually using those potential resources where its needed most people prefer the large middle pedal when merging.

 

:happy feet: Oh my gawd traffic is going so fast I better brake to merge! :happy feet:

 

I think 4 door sedan folks who get the V6, put custom wheels and order the factory spoiler are dilusional (not to be mean but common) Where talking about a car to haul your pets, kids etc... Its all a "mystical" thing to me to own a "sports sedan." My '95 CrownVic P71 has more sport in it than mosts V6 midsizers and I can pass on a steep hill with ease.

 

End of rant.

Edited October 5, 2006 by 01FOCI

[ebritt]

Wife's Festiva ran 12"s all the way around.

So did the local smartass's Le Car when I was a kid. We put it on top of a concrete picnic table in front of Wendy's one night when he went in. Now THAT.....was funny! Edited October 5, 2006 by ebritt

[NLPRacing]

Wife's Festiva ran 12"s all the way around. I could put tires on it, installed and out the door, with tax, for under $100 bucks.

 

Try to find 12" tires now, nearly impossible. Nobody had any nor could they get any, not Discount Tire, Wal Mart, Costco, Sears, etc. I had to order a couple from Tire Rack, and they cost me $43 a piece (plus shipping)! Whenever I need to replace all four, I'll be able to buy 13" tires & wheels off ebay cheaper than than the 12" tires!

[hoss96racing]

Hey, Oval. You gonna buy your KIA's when the North takes over the factories? :fan:

 

LINK

 

I guess I'm not the only one tired of subsidizing foreign countries.

 

 

The Cold War is over... we have stealth fighters and ICBM's.....let the little commie bastars have it.. we don't need it anymore