VW Workers Vote to Join UAW in Historic Southern Win for Union

[Sherminator98]

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/vw-factory-tennessee-union-results-uaw-00cbeffb

 

Should be interesting how this all shakes out. 

[akirby]

Non paywall link

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/uaw-clinches-watershed-union-victory-volkswagen-tennessee-factory-2024-04-20/

[akirby]

They opened plants here because it’s cheaper than importing.  If they’re not careful these plants will just close and they’ll go back to importing or move the factory to Mexico.

[twintornados]

Congrats to the Chattanooga VW plant workers!! Stand tall!!

[Sherminator98]

On 4/21/2024 at 8:39 AM, twintornados said:

Congrats to the Chattanooga VW plant workers!! Stand tall!!

 

Till they wind up on the unemployment line...guess we will see how VW reacts to this-they already closed one plant in the US in the past 40 years. 

[Motorpsychology]

Quite a turnaround from the last UAW vote at VW.

[Gurgeh]

There's a long back-story to this, as I recall. In Germany industrial unions sit on company boards. VWs German union didn't like the opening of U.S. plant because they saw it as taking work away from their German union members and pushed for VW to invite in the UAW (which they did, even pre-negotiating with the UAW a sweetheart deal) for the purpose of making the American plant less competitive with its German counterparts. Even with this unusual circumstance, the union vote still lost. Twice. Looks like VW and the German unions finally got their wish.

Edited April 24, 2024 by Gurgeh

[DeluxeStang]

On 4/21/2024 at 6:39 AM, twintornados said:

Congrats to the Chattanooga VW plant workers!! Stand tall!!

Unions don't stand tall for anyone except a small portion of union reps. They hurt the workers by encouraging companies to relocate factories to foreign nations. They hurt the American consumer by driving up the cost of the product, and they hurt brands by dragging down profit margins.Unions are the HOA of the corporate world, they don't help anyone. Everyone understands why they were created, but believes they don't have as much of a reason to exist in modern day society. 

[twintornados]

On 4/22/2024 at 2:09 PM, silvrsvt said:

 

Till they wind up on the unemployment line...guess we will see how VW reacts to this-they already closed one plant in the US in the past 40 years. 

 

4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Unions don't stand tall for anyone except a small portion of union reps. They hurt the workers by encouraging companies to relocate factories to foreign nations. They hurt the American consumer by driving up the cost of the product, and they hurt brands by dragging down profit margins.Unions are the HOA of the corporate world, they don't help anyone. Everyone understands why they were created, but believes they don't have as much of a reason to exist in modern day society. 

 

Got it...you both are anti-union....good to know.

[Sherminator98]

3 minutes ago, twintornados said:

Got it...you both are anti-union....good to know.

 

Nah, I was raised by someone who worked for the UAW and I was on strike when I was 17 years old working at a local grocery store for a few weeks. My old man said the union was pretty much useless outside of him being able to retire a little early due to the Edison plant being shutdown. 

 

The issue is that the vast majority of the time, the union is a self serving entity with ties to ideologies I don't particularly care for. 

 

Demographically unions may have more influence due to a shortage of workers due to smaller cohorts and labor becomes harder to fill in certain positions. But to blindly put your faith into a union is downright stupid. 

[akirby]

9 minutes ago, twintornados said:

Got it...you both are anti-union....good to know.

For the record, I’m not against unions.  I’m against union tactics like strikes just to get more compensation - especially when it’s significantly higher than the rest of the market.  It puts employers at a competitive disadvantage and it absolutely drives business to other states and countries.  And it protects bad employees and stifles productivity.  I’ve seen it first hand.

 

I believe an employer has the right to determine employee pay.  Period.  If you don’t like the pay or benefits then go find another job.

[DeluxeStang]

On 4/25/2024 at 4:59 AM, twintornados said:

 

 

Got it...you both are anti-union....good to know.

I'm anti anything that hurts the American worker, consumer, and economy. Before you go defending unions, look at how a lot of people on this site who are unionized at Ford view their union leaders. I believe the guys last name is Faun? Yeah, the general consensus seems to be he's an absolute idiot putting everyone's job security at risk. 

 

I'm for unions with fair demands, and who are considerate and rational. But it seems there's been a rising trend lately that if companies turn any sort of profit at all, then they're evil, and they need to keep raising their employees salaries until they aren't making money anymore. It's absurd. 

 

Respectfully, it's not hard to understand where this leads. If unions keep demanding more and more from brands, they'll just relocate their factories elsewhere. That's why everyone is like "What the hell are you doing?" to the people in charge of the UAW because they're either deliberately trying to sabotage workers careers, or they're too stupid to realize the consequences of their actions. Either way, it's not a good look for them. 

Edited April 26, 2024 by DeluxeStang

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

For the record, I’m not against unions.  I’m against union tactics like strikes just to get more compensation - especially when it’s significantly higher than the rest of the market.  It puts employers at a competitive disadvantage and it absolutely drives business to other states and countries.  And it protects bad employees and stifles productivity.  I’ve seen it first hand.

 

I believe an employer has the right to determine employee pay.  Period.  If you don’t like the pay or benefits then go find another job.

Exactly. American workers working in certain industries used to be treated incredibly poorly decades and centuries ago, exposed to all sorts of hazards and injustices. Which is why I understand why unions were formed to begin with, to have someone advocating for workers against these injustices. But in modern day corporate America, it seems like union representatives care less about making sure workers are treated fairly, and more about lining their own pockets. 

[twintornados]

23 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

I'm anti anything that hurts the American worker, consumer, and economy. Before you do defending unions, look at how a lot of people on this site who are unionized at Ford view their union leaders. I believe the guys last name is Faun? Yeah, the general consensus seems to be he's an absolute idiot putting everyone's job security at risk. 

 

I'm for unions with fair demands, and who are considerate and rational. But it seems there's been a rising trend lately that if companies turn any sort of profit at all, then they're evil, and they need to keep raising their employees salaries until they aren't making money anymore. It's absurd. 

 

Respectfully, it's not hard to understand where this leads. If unions keep demanding more and more from brands, they'll just relocate their factories elsewhere. That's why everyone is like "What the hell are you doing to the people in charge of the UAW" because they're either deliberately trying to sabotage workers careers, or they're too stupid to realize the consequences of their actions. Either way, it's not a good look for them. 

 

Like I said...you don't like unions. Got it.

[akirby]

45 minutes ago, twintornados said:

 

Like I said...you don't like unions. Got it.

And you hate businesses.  Got it.  Let’s all move on.

[twintornados]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

And you hate businesses.  Got it.  Let’s all move on.

You would be wrong. I am a capitalist but, business needs the balance of a union to pay those that put the money in the coffers and Union needs to ensure that the products they produce for the business are desired and bought. It is a tightrope that both sides of a negotiations table need to walk so that both entities are successful.

 

Since you are the moderator, I will end the conversation here.

Edited April 26, 2024 by twintornados

[akirby]

2 hours ago, twintornados said:

You would be wrong. I am a capitalist but, business needs the balance of a union to pay those that put the money in the coffers and Union needs to ensure that the products they produce for the business are desired and bought. It is a tightrope that both sides of a negotiations table need to walk so that both entities are successful.

 

Since you are the moderator, I will end the conversation here.

Never mind.  Might as well bang my head into a brick wall.

Edited April 26, 2024 by akirby

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, twintornados said:

You would be wrong. I am a capitalist but, business needs the balance of a union to pay those that put the money in the coffers and Union needs to ensure that the products they produce for the business are desired and bought. It is a tightrope that both sides of a negotiations table need to walk so that both entities are successful.

 

Since you are the moderator, I will end the conversation here.

No-one is against paying hard working people a fair, and livable wage. They're against unions adopting the mentality of more is never enough. 

[tbone]

8 hours ago, twintornados said:

You would be wrong. I am a capitalist but, business needs the balance of a union to pay those that put the money in the coffers and Union needs to ensure that the products they produce for the business are desired and bought. It is a tightrope that both sides of a negotiations table need to walk so that both entities are successful.

 

Since you are the moderator, I will end the conversation here.

I am not a member of a union and I think my wage is pretty good. My position is you would not be able to get good employees if you weren’t paying a sufficient wage to entice them to work there. You may get poor quality workers to work for less, but your product will suffer because of it, as would sales.  As such, your wage has to be commensurate with a quality workforce. The old saying, you get what you pay for, applies to many things.  
 

I would also argue the high-quality union workers would likely be making more money if they weren’t limited by the contract, and those problem workers would not be making the same amount of money as the good workers or they would be gone from the company.

[akirby]

The problem is most of these jobs are unskilled labor.  Physically demanding but so was digging ditches back in the day.  In the open market these types of jobs just aren’t worth as much as other types of jobs requiring more specialized skill or experience.  The union wants to force higher wages but the only way to do that without losing jobs is if you control the entire market - which was exactly the case 40 yrs ago but not today especially with a global economy.  Thats why they want to take over the transplants but even if they do there are global options and more companies will simply move production elsewhere.

 

It’s like trying to force $30/hr wages for fast food cashiers.  At those prices it’s cheaper to use kiosks.