The Ford Explorer EV Is A Volkswagen & It’s So Good America Should Get It! Full Tour & First Drive

[DeluxeStang]

50 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

Ahem...

 

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/10/rs2-00-concept-is-an-after-hours-ford-project-celebrating-the-iconic-group-b-rs200/ 

I'm familiar with the car, it's my profile pic after all lol. I hope Ford builds it. They're doing the whole "It's just a virtual concept" thing, but it's apparently been packaged to accommodate multiple powertrain types. That seems like a lot of work for a car Ford won't even try to build. 

[AM222]

About the European Explorer EV and its Capri SUV Coupe twin... they aren't selling well as expected.

"German newspaper Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger learned from a Ford spokesperson the “rapidly deteriorating market conditions for electric vehicles” are putting the brakes on Explorer and Capri production. Employees will have no other way but to alternate between working one week and taking one week off until the Christmas vacation. It’s a huge blow to the Cologne operations considering Ford invested $2 billion to get the German plant ready for EV production."

"Ford’s electric offensive in Europe came at the expense of the Fiesta, its popular supermini that was shockingly retired from the factory in July 2023. To make matters worse, the company doesn’t have many ICE cars left to fall back on since the Mondeo made in Valencia, Spain died in 2022 and the Focus will be retired in 2025 from the Saarlouis site in Germany."
Source: Ford Is Already Cutting Production of Its New EVs

Ford killing their ICE models one after the other to make way for new BEVs that aren't selling. Ford in North America was smart enough to have the F150 Lightning run alongside the ICE F150.

Again, a reminder: For the rest of the world, the mid-size pickup is "The" pickup and small B and C segment cars/SUVs/MPVs are the preferred vehicles. 

Will Ford discontinue the current Kuga-Escape after it discontinues the C2-based Focus in 2025 or will it survive? Ford really needs an ICE/Hybrid model to fall back on.

Edited November 13 by AM222

[Sherminator98]

15 minutes ago, AM222 said:

About the European Explorer EV and its Capri SUV Coupe twin... they aren't selling well as expected.

"German newspaper Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger learned from a Ford spokesperson the “rapidly deteriorating market conditions for electric vehicles” are putting the brakes on Explorer and Capri production. Employees will have no other way but to alternate between working one week and taking one week off until the Christmas vacation. It’s a huge blow to the Cologne operations considering Ford invested $2 billion to get the German plant ready for EV production."

"Ford’s electric offensive in Europe came at the expense of the Fiesta, its popular supermini that was shockingly retired from the factory in July 2023. To make matters worse, the company doesn’t have many ICE cars left to fall back on since the Mondeo made in Valencia, Spain died in 2022 and the Focus will be retired in 2025 from the Saarlouis site in Germany."
Source: Ford Is Already Cutting Production of Its New EVs

Ford killing their ICE models one after the other to make way for new BEVs that aren't selling. Ford in North America was smart enough to have the F150 Lightning run alongside the ICE F150.

Again, a reminder: For the rest of the world, the mid-size pickup is "The" pickup and small B and C segment cars/SUVs/MPVs are the preferred vehicles. 

Will Ford discontinue the current Kuga-Escape after it discontinues the C2-based Focus in 2025 or will it survive? Ford really needs an ICE/Hybrid model to fall back on.

 

The thing is that that you forgetting the aggressive EV mandates from the UK and and EU that require something like 55% of the market to be EV only by 2030, which is roughly 5 years from now. It would make pretty much no sense to introduce a wholly new ICE based product since there would be almost no time to recoup the costs on it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2024/05/19/europes-wobbling-ev-mandate-will-force-hard-choices/

[AM222]

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The thing is that that you forgetting the aggressive EV mandates from the UK and and EU that require something like 55% of the market to be EV only by 2030, which is roughly 5 years from now. It would make pretty much no sense to introduce a wholly new ICE based product since there would be almost no time to recoup the costs on it.

You don't need to do an all-new ICE model; the Kuga and Escape's C2 architecture can last another generation with a reskin and updates like the new S650 Mustang. 

I think ICE/Hybrid models are still very important, especially if you want your car company to make it to 2030. This is pretty much the case in many of the rest-of-the-world markets.  It's either BEV sales are slowing down or not growing as fast as they wanted it to.


 

Edited November 13 by AM222

[Sherminator98]

12 minutes ago, AM222 said:

You don't need to do an all-new ICE model; the Kuga and Escape's C2 architecture can last another generation with a reskin and updates like the new S650 Mustang. 

I think ICE/Hybrid models are still very important, especially if you want your car company to make it to 2030. This is pretty much the case in many of the rest-of-the-world markets.  It's either BEV sales are slowing down or not growing as fast as they wanted it to.

 

But expecting just the Escape/Kuga to hold the line in the EU is a bit disingenuous 

[AM222]

2 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But expecting just the Escape/Kuga to hold the line in the EU is a bit disingenuous 

In Europe, the current Kuga PHEV is one of the top selling PHEVs in Europe and was the best-selling PHEV in 2023 (In Europe). If Ford updates its styling, they can probably make it last past 2030.

[DeluxeStang]

This is depressing as hell. Week after week it's Ford's cutting demand here, Ford scaling back production there, Ford's canceling products, Ford's products aren't competitive.

 

Now is the time to take control of the narrative Ford, give us something to be excited about. If CE1 is as impressive as you say, show us something. We're 2 years from those coming to market, if they showed us concepts tomorrow, that 2 year gap would already be shorter than the gap between most concepts and production. 

 

Just show us something Ford, anything, that gives us a reason to have a positive conversation about your future product plans for a change. This radio silent treatment while everyone else is constantly releasing and revealing EV products isn't a good look for you. 

[morgan20]

9 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

This is depressing as hell. Week after week it's Ford's cutting demand here, Ford scaling back production there, Ford's canceling products, Ford's products aren't competitive.

 

Now is the time to take control of the narrative Ford, give us something to be excited about. If CE1 is as impressive as you say, show us something. We're 2 years from those coming to market, if they showed us concepts tomorrow, that 2 year gap would already be shorter than the gap between most concepts and production. 

 

Just show us something Ford, anything, that gives us a reason to have a positive conversation about your future product plans for a change. This radio silent treatment while everyone else is constantly releasing and revealing EV products isn't a good look for you. 

 

Preach on DeluxeStang my friend! Couldn't have said it any better. Do the big shots at Ford visit this site? If not, they should

[rmc523]

32 minutes ago, AM222 said:

In Europe, the current Kuga PHEV is one of the top selling PHEVs in Europe and was the best-selling PHEV in 2023 (In Europe). If Ford updates its styling, they can probably make it last past 2030.

 

His point is having just Kuga in the lineup alone won't work.  They need other products.

[Sherminator98]

32 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Now is the time to take control of the narrative Ford, give us something to be excited about. If CE1 is as impressive as you say, show us something. We're 2 years from those coming to market, if they showed us concepts tomorrow, that 2 year gap would already be shorter than the gap between most concepts and production. 

 

Just show us something Ford, anything, that gives us a reason to have a positive conversation about your future product plans for a change. This radio silent treatment while everyone else is constantly releasing and revealing EV products isn't a good look for you. 

 

Apparently they will start talking about them next year.  

 

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2024/08/21/ford-broadens-electrification-strategy-to-reach-more-customers--.html

 

 

Quote

Ford will provide an update on its electrification, technology, profitability and capital requirements in the first half of 2025.

 

Edited November 13 by silvrsvt

[mackinaw]

30 minutes ago, morgan20 said:

Preach on DeluxeStang my friend! Couldn't have said it any better. Do the big shots at Ford visit this site? If not, they should

 

Yeah right, like any of us knows WTF we're talking about.  So easy to play Monday morning quarterback.  We're not the ones making billion dollar decisions.  

[Biker16]

1 minute ago, mackinaw said:

 

Yeah right, like any of us knows WTF we're talking about.  So easy to play Monday morning quarterback.  We're not the ones making billion dollar decisions.  

or the ones Avoiding making those decisions. 
 

[Sherminator98]

8 minutes ago, Biker16 said:

or the ones Avoiding making those decisions. 
 

 

or the ones changing those decisions 😛

 

[morgan20]

10 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

Yeah right, like any of us knows WTF we're talking about.

 

DeluxeStang sure knows what he's talkin' about, and it makes a lot more sense than what the big shots at Ford have been doin'. Or not doin'

[DeluxeStang]

50 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

or the ones changing those decisions 😛

 

Wait a minute, are you trying to tell me Ford has ever changed their decisions? 😉

[DeluxeStang]

50 minutes ago, morgan20 said:

 

DeluxeStang sure knows what he's talkin' about, and it makes a lot more sense than what the big shots at Ford have been doin'. Or not doin'

I appreciate the praise, but these guys know more than I do. I'm merely an enthusiast making suggestions based on what I want to see, and based on what I think would help ford at this point in time. But there are a lot of factors to take into consideration that I'm not accounting for I'm sure. 

 

I just find it odd that car companies don't reveal a product until right before it goes into production, far too late to make any changes based on feedback. Ford definitely wants to keep their cards close to their chest if this platform is as innovative as they claim. But they could just show a design and keep a technical details hidden for now. That would generate a lot of buzz and excitement without tipping off the competition too much. 

 

It just seems like Ford needs to get this one right. Like if they don't nail these affordable EVs, it's gonna be a huge blow to their future product plans. They can't afford another 3 row design disaster or something like that, now is the time to get feedback outside of the company.

 

Concepts are so cheap to make for a brand like Ford, they're a few million each which for a brand worth tens of billions, is basically pennies. If I was in charge, I'd commission a ton of concepts with a wide variety of vehicle types and design cues to see what really resonates with people. People hate this, but they love that, etc. Toyota did something similar around 2021 where they revealed a ton of concepts. Ford needs to do something like that. 

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But expecting just the Escape/Kuga to hold the line in the EU is a bit disingenuous 

This is why  Dearborn is taking a more active role in product decisions in Europe,

things are not working out as planned. Europe needs more products to sell as well

as export to ROW markets.

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, Biker16 said:

or the ones Avoiding making those decisions. 
 

in fairness, was it avoiding decisions or making the wrong ones?  It’s not quite the same, though I’m not blaming Ford.

 

Ford (and other manufacturers) invested billions on electrification that buyers are resisting, or at least not embracing at rate mandates projected.  Is that solely on Ford?  In part I suppose Ford is to blame by building the wrong BEVs, but IMO not entirely a Ford problem of their own making because I doubt mandate volumes could have been met profitably regardless of BEV designs.

 

To some degree it seems governments want to force a square peg into a round hole by using mandates against auto industry instead of attacking buyers more directly; probably for fear of a voter revolt.  Whatever Ford does next with ICE versus BEV balancing act still carries huge risk out of their control because mandates can just as easily be un-mandated (reversed) by a new government chosen by the same majority that still prefers ICE and HEVs.  Ford taking it slow is probably smart for now in my opinion.

[Sherminator98]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

in fairness, was it avoiding decisions or making the wrong ones?  It’s not quite the same, though I’m not blaming Ford.

 

Ford (and other manufacturers) invested billions on electrification that buyers are resisting, or at least not embracing at rate mandates projected.  Is that solely on Ford?  In part I suppose Ford is to blame by building the wrong BEVs, but IMO not entirely a Ford problem of their own making because I doubt mandate volumes could have been met profitably regardless of BEV designs.

 

To some degree it seems governments want to force a square peg into a round hole by using mandates against auto industry instead of attacking buyers more directly; probably for fear of a voter revolt.  Whatever Ford does next with ICE versus BEV balancing act still carries huge risk out of their control because mandates can just as easily be un-mandated (reversed) by a new government chosen by the same majority that still prefers ICE and HEVs.  Ford taking it slow is probably smart for now in my opinion.

 

The thing is this is a industry issue and not just a Ford problem. I can't think of an EU based mainline manufacture that isn't having issues with sale...VW is facing issues, Stellantis is facing issues, and so on. I'm guessing some of this is demographic and economic issues that are being faced in the EU with high energy prices and inflation. The EU got used to cheap energy from Russia and that blew up in their faces...not to mention all the other issues like trying to sell products in China and regulatory issues in the EU. 

[Rick73]

If I were a betting man, and I’m not, I’d wager that mandates requiring a certain percentage of BEVs will be rolled back significantly over next year or two, not just in US but Europe also.  Governments represent the people, whether voters are right or not on climate change and or best solution is a different discussion, and if majority of buyers don’t want to be forced into purchasing electric vehicles, they will simply change the government.  Nothing is sacred or off limits, which is what makes investing for 5+ years into future such a gamble IMO.

 

I have thought sales mandates were the wrong approach from very beginning so I will admit being biased against their chances of success.

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The thing is this is an industry issue and not just a Ford problem. I can't think of an EU based mainline manufacture that isn't having issues with sale...VW is facing issues, Stellantis is facing issues, and so on. I'm guessing some of this is demographic and economic issues that are being faced in the EU with high energy prices and inflation. The EU got used to cheap energy from Russia and that blew up in their faces...not to mention all the other issues like trying to sell products in China and regulatory issues in the EU. 

Yes, you nailed it.

And now, China has the vehicles that European leaders want for their green future

but that comes at a heck of a price…..their own domestic European car industry.

EU is at the crossroads years before USA because they wanted to spearhead

this move away from ICE.

 

 

7 hours ago, Rick73 said:

If I were a betting man, and I’m not, I’d wager that mandates requiring a certain percentage of BEVs will be rolled back significantly over next year or two, not just in US but Europe also.  Governments represent the people, whether voters are right or not on climate change and or best solution is a different discussion, and if majority of buyers don’t want to be forced into purchasing electric vehicles, they will simply change the government.  Nothing is sacred or off limits, which is what makes investing for 5+ years into future such a gamble IMO.

 

I have thought sales mandates were the wrong approach from very beginning so I will admit being biased against their chances of success.

Some harsh realities coming regarding costs, batteries, charging requirements, grid supply upgrades.

All of that change is going to take time, the rate of rollout needs to be controlled so that people don’t 

give up too quickly if early disappointments start to spread.