Edgey Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 (edited) It's beginning to look like Ford is avoiding the 'one product fits all' approach by losing the 'stripper' model option. The Edge and Escape duo seem like a good example of Ford's attempt to provide an appealing option at every price point without harming the image of the more expensive products. The Freestyle and Fairlane may do the same. If you look at these sneak peak images, you can see that the Fairlane is a higher-end product and should cost a few grand more than a Freestyle. If Ford were to lose the Freestyle, they would have to cheapen the Fairlane to fill its shoes. Edited November 10, 2006 by Edgey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 (edited) Your link has an extra "http://" in it...here is the corrected link: Fairlane clinic Smaller and lower roof height then I expected. It looks downright tiny in fact....though I'm not going to base it on these pics. Edited November 10, 2006 by Intrepidatious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Your link has an extra "http://" in it...here is the corrected link: Fairlane clinic Smaller and lower roof height then I expected. It looks downright tiny in fact....though I'm not going to base it on these pics. I bet the "Bold Moves" video showed the original Fairlane based on the CD3. The one based on the D3 should be a lot bigger. That one pictured is smaller than the current Freestyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgey Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 (edited) Your link has an extra "http://" in it...here is the corrected link: Fairlane clinic Smaller and lower roof height then I expected. It looks downright tiny in fact....though I'm not going to base it on these pics. Sorry, I fixed it now. These images came from one of the Bold Moves episodes. This is the finalized production version of the car, it will not change substantially, particularly in its dimensions. Once we start seeing prototypes on the road, then we'll get a better sense of its proportions. I'm still amazed that Ford allowed this footage to get out, the whole car is right there and it's definitely not the concept! Edited November 10, 2006 by Edgey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Does it have a 3rd row seat, and which way will it face? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgey Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 (edited) Does it have a 3rd row seat, and which way will it face? Ford is trying out a new "Omni Directional" seating alternative to the 3rd row seat. The passenger can chose how they want to sit and in what direction they will face. This has eliminated the cost of a 3rd row seat. Edited November 10, 2006 by Edgey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Sorry, I fixed it now. These images came from one of the Bold Moves episodes. This is the finalized production version of the car, it will not change substantially, particularly in its dimensions. Once we start seeing prototypes on the road, then we'll get a better sense of its proportions. I'm still amazed that Ford allowed this footage to get out, the whole car is right there and it's definitely not the concept! That thing will be smaller than the Freestyle. I thought it was supposed to be a minivan replacement. Nobody in the market for a minivan will get a vehicle that small. I'm sure we'll see a near production version at NAIAS, we'll just have to wait and see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Nobody in the market for a minivan will get a vehicle that small. really? Did you know that today's minivan driver will want something a little smaller when they trade in 3 yrs? When they no longer have to haul soccer teams around, the need for a microbus disappears. But they still want something comfrtable, easy to get into and capable of hauling still. Like the original 5 seat minivans. Look at where the market is going. Boomers are aging. As their kids age (the Boom Echo), the kids replacing them will be a smaller group. Go look us the census data. The boomer phenomena affects cars too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss96racing Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 wow... i'm really starting to like that thing ...so far from these pics I think I would drive one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 really? Did you know that today's minivan driver will want something a little smaller when they trade in 3 yrs? When they no longer have to haul soccer teams around, the need for a microbus disappears. But they still want something comfrtable, easy to get into and capable of hauling still. Like the original 5 seat minivans. Look at where the market is going. Boomers are aging. As their kids age (the Boom Echo), the kids replacing them will be a smaller group. Go look us the census data. The boomer phenomena affects cars too. A current minivan owner may like it, but somebody who is not a current minivan owner and are looking for a minivan size vehicle will quickly dismiss something this small. Don't get me wrong, I think it looks great and hopefully it will sell real well to people looking to downsize from their current minivan or SUV. I'm just a little disappointed that Ford's new minivan replacing "people mover" appears to be no bigger than a Taurus wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 but still no auto shift option.....damn thing is going to be a disaster!! Just kidding......seems alot smaller for a replacement of their minivans though....did happen to see their target market with regards to the interior is the pacifica, pilot and freestyle. This is the type of vehicle that you really want to have demand exceed capacity (that could be true for all vehicles!) because it is such a retro design it may have a short shelf space-kind of like the bug-how the hell do you update that damn thing! No slider's on the 2nd door-nor did I suspect they would put them on the vehicle. Noticed my buddy mark fields involved...say what you want but the guy is making things happen regarding product..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 (edited) What's the pricing info looking like on the Fairlane? I like what I'm seeing, but if they want a large number of people to shell out $30+ grand for a boxy people hauler, I think that they're going to fall short. Especially with the economic climate that's looming ahead for this country. For this thing to be considered a product that can support a premium price, the drivetrain is going to have to be something "out-of-this-world". As we all know, that hasn't been Ford's forte during new vehicle launches, so hopefully some drivetrain options are available from the git-go. Additionally, it is hoped that the Triplets (CD3?) quality finds its way into this product. The thing about pricing is.... for average schmos looking for something in a 'non-minivan' 7 passenger vehicle, they're going to have choices like the one below that's due out from KIA in a couple of months. I'm sure other manufacturers will have similar choices available. The article states that these will MSRP between $15-25k, but experience tells me that you'll be able to get a nicely featured one for under $20k easily. http://www.carpages.ca/go/roadtest/2007_ki...do_preview.aspx I KNOW that the prestige/bling appeal of the KIA isn't anywhere in the same league as what the Fairlane will offer, BUT.... to a dual income family pulling down barely $50-60k with 2-3 mouths to feed, prestige and bling may be near the bottom of their list of needs. I *wish* that Ford would come around and produce some well engineered, decently styled, quality laden, fun-to-drive AND affordable vehicles for everyday people that AREN'T based on some damned 5-20 year old chassis. The Fusion is a good start in that direction. My program manager friend (who left FoMoCo 2 years ago because he saw the current malestrom coming) always said that J. Mays was leading the company down an 'elitest' path that in general DIDN'T resonate well with Ford's traditional buyer base. Here's an excerpt from a 2005 article he and I discussed that basically restates what I'm saying: Ford may pull the plug on minivan By Amy Wilson Automotive News / January 24, 2005 "Fairlane could take the "diaper" stigma away from conventional minivan buyers by giving them an upscale ride, Ford design chief J Mays says. But it must be affordable for mass market Ford Division customers. Fairlane is outfitted with a canvas top likened to a polo helmet. Video at the auto show depicted it as the choice of an old-money crowd at play in the Hamptons. "Our people don't know too much about polo," Lyons says. "Football? OK, we're into that. NASCAR. So is this, in fact, a Ford? There are elements that could very well be. But if that vehicle is $45,000, I'm not interested." A $25,000 price is more realistic, he says." Here's a quote from the exchange my PM friend and I had about the Fairlane based on the above article: "Fairlane is a stupid name for the replacement vehicle (only targeted at 70K-77K units). Ford is supposed to perform nomenclature research with consumers, but almost always, someone in upper management just dictates the name. (Ie. - Freestar is about the stupidest name that I have ever heard.) Ford is not putting into the "Fairlane" some of the top wanted consumer features in this segment because it would "Cost too much" based on the platform that it will use. So, history repeats itself. It is not too crowded to fit a traditional minivan in for Ford, Ford is not willing to do what is required to execute in this market segment. There goes J. Mays shooting off his mouth again about an upscale ride - he just does not understand Ford consumers or the minivan segment." Time will tell. I *do* hope that the Fairlane is a hit. The same goes for the 'Edge'. -Ovaltine Edited November 10, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swenson88 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 A current minivan owner may like it, but somebody who is not a current minivan owner and are looking for a minivan size vehicle will quickly dismiss something this small. Don't get me wrong, I think it looks great and hopefully it will sell real well to people looking to downsize from their current minivan or SUV. I'm just a little disappointed that Ford's new minivan replacing "people mover" appears to be no bigger than a Taurus wagon. I agree. Those photos actually made me much less excited for this vehicle. The interior looks top-notch, but the size just looks wrong. My parents haven't had any kids living at home in five years, but both continue to buy minivans primarily for the size and cargo capacity. The omni-directional seating thing sounds like a waste, similar to the "tailgating seat" that the Freestar had that Ford thought was such a great idea. How many passengers are dying to face backwards???? Right now I'm not seeing the benefit of this over a minivan in any way, I hope I'm wrong when it comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgey Posted November 11, 2006 Author Share Posted November 11, 2006 (edited) I was joking about the omni-directional seating! The joke was suppose to mean that if you didn't have a 3rd row back there, then you could chose to sit facing any direction. Somebody up there actually asked if the seat was rear or forward facing. I had to crack a joke at that! Sorry As for the Fairlane replacing the minivan...definitely not! Ford is offering a 7 seater, but it's not a minivan equivalent. Ford will no longer be pursuing that market segment. They are only interested in the customer looking for an alternative to the minivan. I think it was Mays who said that Ford no longer needs to compete in every segment and the minivan is one segment Ford has chosen to leave. It is a big segment and it may disqualify Ford as a 'full-line' company, but they can't spend money where they know they are not going to see growth. Edited November 11, 2006 by Edgey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 The thing about pricing is.... for average schmos looking for something in a 'non-minivan' 7 passenger vehicle, they're going to have choices like the one below that's due out from KIA in a couple of months. I'm sure other manufacturers will have similar choices available. The article states that these will MSRP between $15-25k, but experience tells me that you'll be able to get a nicely featured one for under $20k easily. They have one now. It's called the Mazda5, available from $17,995 at your nearest Mazda dealer. Sales have been alright (~17K for 2006), considering Mazda's approach (low volume, virtually zero advertising.) Ford will most likely have somthing like the Rondo & Mazda5 when the C2 platform debuts in 2010-11. The Fairlane is interesting. Looking at the photographs and seeing how small it is I really don't understand the reasoning behind the move to D3 from CD3. The CD3-based Mazda Cx-9 appears larger than the Fairlane (at 199" long a CX-9 is just a fraction shorter than a Freestyle.) The low roof makes for a nice design (it actually appears to be 2-3" inches shorter (height) than my Mazda5) but the low roof hinders rear seat access. If the Fairlane doesn't have a usable/accessible 3rd row, its viability as a minivan replacement wanes. But I see no problem with pricing this vehicle high. With its look & assumed feature content starting at $30K seems reasonable. It will only target the higher-end minivans, like Sienna XLE & Odyssey EX-L. However, the size & pricing (both virtually the same as the Freestyle) will compromise the market for both Freestyle & Fairlane. Had the Fairlane been notably larger or higher-roofed the separation would have been easier. Now, I just hope the Freestyle becomes a Mercury - at least the two D3s won't be on the same lot that way. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Ford is not putting into the "Fairlane" some of the top wanted consumer features in this segment because it would "Cost too much" based on the platform that it will use. So, history repeats itself. Looking at the Fairlane in the video............... I believe that the Fairlane is going to have all the 'top wanted' consumer features: we know that Bluetooth is coming as a factory option next fall, Ford already has new center stack/corporate head units, they also have improved sat. Nav available on most vehicles, as well as Sat radio, DVD entertainment systems, and the Vista Roof (which will probably not be frequently ticked on the order box, but will sell from the showroom floor. That leaves what? rain-sensing wipers, front parking assist, and a rear camera? Add all those doodads onto the list price, and the dang thing might come close to $40k, but that's (again) with a whole bunch of techno-crap bolted onto the beast. BTW. Mazda5, heard of it? Rumor has it the Focus range will have a similar model eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 A current minivan owner may like it, but somebody who is not a current minivan owner and are looking for a minivan size vehicle will quickly dismiss something this small. Don't get me wrong, I think it looks great and hopefully it will sell real well to people looking to downsize from their current minivan or SUV. I'm just a little disappointed that Ford's new minivan replacing "people mover" appears to be no bigger than a Taurus wagon. so I guess GM needs to add a back seat to the Corvette because minivan buyers may dismiss it. You can't be all things to all people. Minivan people will buy minivans. This ain't a minivan so stop trying to make it one. The kids population is shrinking. With that goes the demand for a bus in your driveway. The Edge is the perfect vehicle to address that grwoing part of the market. I happen to be happy that Ford is thinking forward instead of trying to relive the past. Now as far as making large people movers.... exactly how big are they supposed to make it? Should it be as big as an Excursion? Remember, this is about making profit. They need to make vehicles that will sell... at a profit. Yours and my disappointment and approval really mean fuck all when it comes down to the balance sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Minivan people will buy minivans. This ain't a minivan so stop trying to make it one. The kids population is shrinking. With that goes the demand for a bus in your driveway. Hey J: Define the word 'kids'. According to this article, http://www.keyfindings.com/healthcare/article2.htm the number of 12-19 year olds are RISING. "The population of teens is now rising steadily after 16 years of decline. In 1992 there were 29 million 12 - 19 year olds; in 2010, there will be 35 million." I'll try to dig up some stats on the 0-11 year olds and update this post later. So..... the need to haul kids and soccer teams ain't goin' away in the near term. -Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 (edited) Not without a third row seat, it won't. It does appear that 3rd row seating is going to be part of the Fairlane. Check this out: http://minivans.about.com/b/a/000028.htm Here are some additional Fairlane comments from a speech on September 15, 2006 by Ford President Mark Fields (see full transcript): "With bold, American design, three rows of seating and about 23 miles to the gallon, we believe this all-new vehicle can redefine the people-mover for the 21st century. We will build this new crossover at our Oakville Assembly Plant in Ontario to take advantage of the significant investment we’ve made in flexible manufacturing there." Another article I saw showed the concept to be a 6-passenger vehicle..... with 2 Captains chairs in the middle row, and 2 seats in the back. -Ovaltine Edited November 12, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 True. But, if had actually read the post, he was talking about the Edge. My apologies. You are right! I thought that this was a thread about the Fairlane, so I was sort of skimming over the posts. I'll try to slow down a bit next time. -Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Hey J: Define the word 'kids'. According to this article, http://www.keyfindings.com/healthcare/article2.htm the number of 12-19 year olds are RISING. "The population of teens is now rising steadily after 16 years of decline. In 1992 there were 29 million 12 - 19 year olds; in 2010, there will be 35 million." I'll try to dig up some stats on the 0-11 year olds and update this post later. So..... the need to haul kids and soccer teams ain't goin' away in the near term. -Ovaltine have you ever looked at a bell curve of the population distribution? Today's teens (the number you are referencing) were the under 12s of just a few years ago. You know... the reason why 3 row minivans became popular. Guess what? 16 year olds dont tend to be driven around in 3 seat minivans with 6 of their friends. They dont want to be seen anywhere with their parents. Now how about that older end of 17-19. How many have a driving permit? How many have their own vehicles? How many will still be living with mom and dad in 2 yrs? True. But, if had actually read the post, he was talking about the Edge. we started talking about the Fairlaine and the size of it. The conversation is also about the true need vs perceived armchair CEO need for 3 rows of seating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) have you ever looked at a bell curve of the population distribution? Today's teens (the number you are referencing) were the under 12s of just a few years ago. You know... the reason why 3 row minivans became popular. Guess what? 16 year olds dont tend to be driven around in 3 seat minivans with 6 of their friends. They dont want to be seen anywhere with their parents. Now how about that older end of 17-19. How many have a driving permit? How many have their own vehicles? How many will still be living with mom and dad in 2 yrs? Hey J: I'm going to stick to my theory that vehicles that seat 7 aren't going away. But.... with the ever increasing population of the U.S., I'll give you the point that a decent 5 seat vehicle may still sell profitably. To back up my original point, check THIS data out. I understand bell curves just fine, but I think there's some assumptions about a static population that isn't jiving with the expansion being created in this country by immigration. http://www.census.gov/population/projections/PressTab5.xls United States - Population Under 18 2000 72,293,812 2010 74,431,511 2030 85,707,297 So..... there doesn't appear to be any actual 'peak' in the curve for the foreseeable future. But again... just because that's true, it doesn't mean that there won't be a market for Edge-like vehicles that only seat 5. I'm *not* implying that. I just want to show that I'm not full of defecation when I say that 7 seater "family-mobiles" aren't going the way of the pet rocks and earth shoes. -Ovaltine Edited November 13, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) so I guess GM needs to add a back seat to the Corvette because minivan buyers may dismiss it. You can't be all things to all people. Minivan people will buy minivans. This ain't a minivan so stop trying to make it one. The kids population is shrinking. With that goes the demand for a bus in your driveway. The Edge is the perfect vehicle to address that growing part of the market. I happen to be happy that Ford is thinking forward instead of trying to relive the past. Now as far as making large people movers.... exactly how big are they supposed to make it? Should it be as big as an Excursion? Remember, this is about making profit. They need to make vehicles that will sell... at a profit. Yours and my disappointment and approval really mean fuck all when it comes down to the balance sheet. I don't know what I said to tick you off, but sorry. This P.M.F.K.A.F. is supposed to be Ford's minivan replacement in the marketplace. So far I like what I've seen, and I think (and hope) Ford will sell a ton of them. With that said, I just don't think it will very competitive when compared the the Sienna, Odyssey, Caravan, etc. and maybe it won't have to be. I just don't think that leaving a big hole in your line-up is a good idea. That's all I was trying to say. Edited November 13, 2006 by NLPRacing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 "United States - Population Under 18 2000 72,293,812 2010 74,431,511 2030 85,707,297 " Damn...thats why I'm all for free condoms in schools and readily accessible abortion clinics, maybe with a drive-thru... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEPSF Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Any idea what they're finally going to call it? And what's wrong with "Fairlane" anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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