Talked to Ford Exec at Orlando Car Show

oldracer · November 27, 2006

I got to talk to an Upper Middle Mgmt, (his description) Ford Exec at the Orlando car show and here is some highlights of our discussion:

He approached me about my opinion of the Edge I was looking at on the floor....my comments were that it appears underwhelming, when in a setting with all of it's competition close by for side by side evaluations.

The Mazda twin looks somewhat classy to me, and had no big apparent advanage over the Edge, but was swarmed with people.

The driver's seat "Leather" was wearing off the outside edge of the driver's seat already and the stitching was spiltting also.

His answer was that it was from the extreme usage on the car show circuit.

I told him that as consumer's, that answer is unacceptable, he did not disagree, citing budget issues cause these problems.

I said this has happened to 3 of myFord vehicles within the first 12,000 miles, it was fixed under warranty with no problem, but begs the question, why don't you use better materials. His answer, (as we all figured), was that the level of the quality of materials is tied to the required selling price point.....

So I pointed out all the other cars in the show and told him NONE of them exhibited that problem, and it was particularly bad on a new model being introduced in 2 weeks....he again did not disagree with my observations and said getting these kinds of issues addressed and corrected was a seemingly insurmountable task due to cost being the main discussion issue controlling decisions at the upper levels.

At this point I dragged him off and bought him a cup of coffee and explained about this website, (he is VERY aware of it), and he dismissed the crazies and trolls here, but said that much of the complaints and desires expressed here are widely known and discussed endlessly internally, but resolutions seem glacially slow in arriving.

I suggested Ford immediately implement the 4 yr/50,000 bumper to bumper warranty as a start, he said it was ruled out at this point due to cost considerations that would be incurred.

I said you already do it with your identical models of Mazdas....he said it's a numbers game, many more Fords, much higher liability...

His unsolicited comment was that supplier quality is being worked and must be much better before that will happen.

He stated that it is generally acknowledged (very quietly) that Honda is the best car company on the planet at this point because they focus on the customer and the product, and do what it takes to make that work, they have problems, but seem to address them better than others.

His opinion of the dealer network's business practices and service was unprintable, even here...

His personal frustration is that all the big 3 companies could out engineer, out produce and overtake the rest of the industry, but seem more concerned with stockholders opinions than the actual customers.....pandering to P/E ratios and cost per unit is nice, but not while you are getting your ass kicked....they just seem unwilling to take the risks needed to jump ahead of the pack.

He loves the company, has worked there over 30 years and wants much better across the board from them.

I said we are in agreement and wished him luck....

I also suggested that they push to be first and best, rather than just competitive and cheap as priorities.

I said most people would willingly pay a few hundred $$ to get a higher quality and, more durable car...

one only needs to look at Honda, who is able to get higher prices for comparable models due to reputation and history of quality. Perception rules, facts are incidental to most people.

I feel my Focus ST is as good and probably better than a Civic, but most people laugh at me when I say that.

16,500 miles so far, 0 problems, and about $4,500-$5000 less than a Civic Si which it compares to equipment and power wise...

I did use his name or actual title as I had not asked his permission to do so.

I feel if the majority of employees in decision making positions were like him, we would see a vastly improved Ford Motor Company products.

I feel this issue is across the business world, not just car companies. All big corporations seem to be squeezing employees and suppliers to inflate the bottom line that ties to multi-million $$ salaries and bonuses at the personal level, but over time I believe is damaging to the corporations.

They just seem very shortsighted about building a loyal customer base and keeping it on a sustained basis.

We as consumers bear blame as well demanding top quality but wanting to pay Chinese prices for it.

Look in the mirror, YOU are the economy, the purchase decisions you make drive demand and sourcing of products. Think if everyone just stopped buying a certain product, what an impact.

Businesses count on us not being organized enough or caring enough to object to whatever they make available for us to buy......

The wages paid also cause buying power to erode making some of these decisions for consumers simply because they have only so much $$ to make do with.. but that is another discussion for another day.

I personally try to buy nothing from China, or anything from Wal-mart.

It seems futile, but more and more people are saying they are doing that to the extent possible.

I do not buy Citgo anything because I will not fund Chavez 1 penny of my $$ to the Venezulan owned and dictator controlled company.

g48150 · November 27, 2006

We'll that's pretty cool. I wonder if you throw all the info in a dBase for all the comment we all make here if you could logically deduct who we were?

Nah, the NSA has WAY better things to do... right?

Too bad you didn't use his name, how about functional area in the company?

If he's upper middle management in Engineering, Marketing, Finance, etc.

ANTAUS · November 27, 2006

Speaking off the Orlando car show that I also attended... I myself spoke to someone who really had NO IDEA where the basis of the Zephyr/MKZ came from. But quietly I just let him go on and on and on, just sinking himself. Then I asked, "So where does the Focus platform come from, and the 500" and just let him go on and on.

THen I corrected him...tells me that THAT Is what the literature taught him. Told him he needed to do some hardcore research, even Wikepedia if possible...even THEY have the information of where the CD3 platform comes from.

Simply horrible. I rather have someone honestly tell me "I dont know" than to just go on and on.

BTW noticed a few things... THE Acura MDX armrest is lockable.... with a Pre-80's era doorlock cylinder in the very center. TACKY.

And I guess that doorlock cylinder is making a comeback. ON the Pontiac G6 trunk offset on the right... This HUGE SILVER doorlock cylinder. Simply unacceptable considering GM for years have had this small little black cylinders with body colored rings that are 1/4 the side of the prehistory dollar sized...doorlock cylinders.

06StangAwesomecar · November 27, 2006

I got to talk to an Upper Middle Mgmt, (his description) Ford Exec at the Orlando car show and here is some highlights of our discussion:

He approached me about my opinion of the Edge I was looking at on the floor....my comments were that it appears underwhelming, when in a setting with all of it's competition close by for side by side evaluations.

The Mazda twin looks somewhat classy to me, and had no big apparent advanage over the Edge, but was swarmed with people.

The driver's seat "Leather" was wearing off the outside edge of the driver's seat already and the stitching was spiltting also.

His answer was that it was from the extreme usage on the car show circuit.

I told him that as consumer's, that answer is unacceptable, he did not disagree, citing budget issues cause these problems.

I said this has happened to 3 of myFord vehicles within the first 12,000 miles, it was fixed under warranty with no problem, but begs the question, why don't you use better materials. His answer, (as we all figured), was that the level of the quality of materials is tied to the required selling price point.....

So I pointed out all the other cars in the show and told him NONE of them exhibited that problem, and it was particularly bad on a new model being introduced in 2 weeks....he again did not disagree with my observations and said getting these kinds of issues addressed and corrected was a seemingly insurmountable task due to cost being the main discussion issue controlling decisions at the upper levels.

At this point I dragged him off and bought him a cup of coffee and explained about this website, (he is VERY aware of it), and he dismissed the crazies and trolls here, but said that much of the complaints and desires expressed here are widely known and discussed endlessly internally, but resolutions seem glacially slow in arriving.

I suggested Ford immediately implement the 4 yr/50,000 bumper to bumper warranty as a start, he said it was ruled out at this point due to cost considerations that would be incurred.

I said you already do it with your identical models of Mazdas....he said it's a numbers game, many more Fords, much higher liability...

His unsolicited comment was that supplier quality is being worked and must be much better before that will happen.

He stated that it is generally acknowledged (very quietly) that Honda is the best car company on the planet at this point because they focus on the customer and the product, and do what it takes to make that work, they have problems, but seem to address them better than others.

His opinion of the dealer network's business practices and service was unprintable, even here...

His personal frustration is that all the big 3 companies could out engineer, out produce and overtake the rest of the industry, but seem more concerned with stockholders opinions than the actual customers.....pandering to P/E ratios and cost per unit is nice, but not while you are getting your ass kicked....they just seem unwilling to take the risks needed to jump ahead of the pack.

He loves the company, has worked there over 30 years and wants much better across the board from them.

I said we are in agreement and wished him luck....

I also suggested that they push to be first and best, rather than just competitive and cheap as priorities.

I said most people would willingly pay a few hundred $$ to get a higher quality and, more durable car...

one only needs to look at Honda, who is able to get higher prices for comparable models due to reputation and history of quality. Perception rules, facts are incidental to most people.

I feel my Focus ST is as good and probably better than a Civic, but most people laugh at me when I say that.

16,500 miles so far, 0 problems, and about $4,500-$5000 less than a Civic Si which it compares to equipment and power wise...

I did use his name or actual title as I had not asked his permission to do so.

I feel if the majority of employees in decision making positions were like him, we would see a vastly improved Ford Motor Company products.

I feel this issue is across the business world, not just car companies. All big corporations seem to be squeezing employees and suppliers to inflate the bottom line that ties to multi-million $$ salaries and bonuses at the personal level, but over time I believe is damaging to the corporations.

They just seem very shortsighted about building a loyal customer base and keeping it on a sustained basis.

We as consumers bear blame as well demanding top quality but wanting to pay Chinese prices for it.

Look in the mirror, YOU are the economy, the purchase decisions you make drive demand and sourcing of products. Think if everyone just stopped buying a certain product, what an impact.

Businesses count on us not being organized enough or caring enough to object to whatever they make available for us to buy......

The wages paid also cause buying power to erode making some of these decisions for consumers simply because they have only so much $$ to make do with.. but that is another discussion for another day.

I personally try to buy nothing from China, or anything from Wal-mart.

It seems futile, but more and more people are saying they are doing that to the extent possible.

I do not buy Citgo anything because I will not fund Chavez 1 penny of my $$ to the Venezulan owned and dictator controlled company.

Excellent post thank you for some good inside info, and I agree with you on this:

I personally try to buy nothing from China, or anything from Wal-mart.
It seems futile, but more and more people are saying they are doing that to the extent possible.

I do not buy Citgo anything because I will not fund Chavez 1 penny of my $$ to the Venezulan owned and dictator controlled company.

I also do the same thing.

bec5150 · November 27, 2006

I personally try to buy nothing from China, or anything from Wal-mart.
It seems futile, but more and more people are saying they are doing that to the extent possible.

I do not buy Citgo anything because I will not fund Chavez 1 penny of my $$ to the Venezulan owned and dictator controlled company.

Great post. Having an internal manager recognize the problems is a good first step. Hopefully the new CEO gets it turned around. I don't see it all as doom and gloom. I can't answer for seats and such, but the launches of the new products have been the envy of all automakers, even Honda and Toyota. That has to be an indication of some new thinking at Ford, right? I just hope that the long term reliability and serviceability is there for these new products. We'll see.

As far as the comment above, it came out yesterday that even with starting Xmas early and slamming prices down as far as they could, WalMart sales are DOWN this holiday season. Maybe folks are figuring this stuff out.

Edited November 27, 2006 by bec5150

old_fairmont_wagon · November 27, 2006

Of course, if you're walmart, it doesn't help when your web portal collapses early in the day when more and more people do their shopping online to avoide the crush at the mall. They lost a not-insignificant amount of money there.

daro31 · November 27, 2006

Great post. Having an internal manager recognize the problems is a good first step. Hopefully the new CEO gets it turned around. I don't see it all as doom and gloom. I can't answer for seats and such, but the launches of the new products have been the envy of all automakers, even Honda and Toyota. That has to be an indication of some new thinking at Ford, right? I just hope that the long term reliability and serviceability is there for these new products. We'll see.

I have worked in Automotive since 1969, starting on the assembly line to supervision and then the last 12 years in middle management supplier quality. I don't think I have ever run into anyone who intentionally wanted to do a poor job, and secretly most everyone has an if I could do my job the way I wanted list.

The biggest problem I have seen in quality problems over the years is the new field I call finance engineering. It is so frustrating to have a finance guy make engineering decisions. I know controls are needed, but when a guy who thinks SPC stands for, Stupid People Care has design review sign-off I think some things need to be rethought.

TheLemon · November 27, 2006

I got to talk to an Upper Middle Mgmt, (his description) Ford Exec at the Orlando car show and here is some highlights of our discussion:

He approached me about my opinion of the Edge I was looking at on the floor....my comments were that it appears underwhelming, when in a setting with all of it's competition close by for side by side evaluations.

The Mazda twin looks somewhat classy to me, and had no big apparent advanage over the Edge, but was swarmed with people.

The driver's seat "Leather" was wearing off the outside edge of the driver's seat already and the stitching was spiltting also.

His answer was that it was from the extreme usage on the car show circuit.

I told him that as consumer's, that answer is unacceptable, he did not disagree, citing budget issues cause these problems.

I said this has happened to 3 of myFord vehicles within the first 12,000 miles, it was fixed under warranty with no problem, but begs the question, why don't you use better materials. His answer, (as we all figured), was that the level of the quality of materials is tied to the required selling price point.....

So I pointed out all the other cars in the show and told him NONE of them exhibited that problem, and it was particularly bad on a new model being introduced in 2 weeks....he again did not disagree with my observations and said getting these kinds of issues addressed and corrected was a seemingly insurmountable task due to cost being the main discussion issue controlling decisions at the upper levels.

At this point I dragged him off and bought him a cup of coffee and explained about this website, (he is VERY aware of it), and he dismissed the crazies and trolls here, but said that much of the complaints and desires expressed here are widely known and discussed endlessly internally, but resolutions seem glacially slow in arriving.

I suggested Ford immediately implement the 4 yr/50,000 bumper to bumper warranty as a start, he said it was ruled out at this point due to cost considerations that would be incurred.

I said you already do it with your identical models of Mazdas....he said it's a numbers game, many more Fords, much higher liability...

His unsolicited comment was that supplier quality is being worked and must be much better before that will happen.

He stated that it is generally acknowledged (very quietly) that Honda is the best car company on the planet at this point because they focus on the customer and the product, and do what it takes to make that work, they have problems, but seem to address them better than others.

His opinion of the dealer network's business practices and service was unprintable, even here...

His personal frustration is that all the big 3 companies could out engineer, out produce and overtake the rest of the industry, but seem more concerned with stockholders opinions than the actual customers.....pandering to P/E ratios and cost per unit is nice, but not while you are getting your ass kicked....they just seem unwilling to take the risks needed to jump ahead of the pack.

He loves the company, has worked there over 30 years and wants much better across the board from them.

I said we are in agreement and wished him luck....

I also suggested that they push to be first and best, rather than just competitive and cheap as priorities.

I said most people would willingly pay a few hundred $$ to get a higher quality and, more durable car...

one only needs to look at Honda, who is able to get higher prices for comparable models due to reputation and history of quality. Perception rules, facts are incidental to most people.

I feel my Focus ST is as good and probably better than a Civic, but most people laugh at me when I say that.

16,500 miles so far, 0 problems, and about $4,500-$5000 less than a Civic Si which it compares to equipment and power wise...

I did use his name or actual title as I had not asked his permission to do so.

I feel if the majority of employees in decision making positions were like him, we would see a vastly improved Ford Motor Company products.

I feel this issue is across the business world, not just car companies. All big corporations seem to be squeezing employees and suppliers to inflate the bottom line that ties to multi-million $$ salaries and bonuses at the personal level, but over time I believe is damaging to the corporations.

They just seem very shortsighted about building a loyal customer base and keeping it on a sustained basis.

We as consumers bear blame as well demanding top quality but wanting to pay Chinese prices for it.

Look in the mirror, YOU are the economy, the purchase decisions you make drive demand and sourcing of products. Think if everyone just stopped buying a certain product, what an impact.

Businesses count on us not being organized enough or caring enough to object to whatever they make available for us to buy......

The wages paid also cause buying power to erode making some of these decisions for consumers simply because they have only so much $$ to make do with.. but that is another discussion for another day.

I personally try to buy nothing from China, or anything from Wal-mart.

It seems futile, but more and more people are saying they are doing that to the extent possible.

I do not buy Citgo anything because I will not fund Chavez 1 penny of my $$ to the Venezulan owned and dictator controlled company.

I hope you told him to visit fordlemon.com !!!! ha ha ha ha!

kyle · November 27, 2006

Speaking off the Orlando car show that I also attended... I myself spoke to someone who really had NO IDEA where the basis of the Zephyr/MKZ came from. But quietly I just let him go on and on and on, just sinking himself. Then I asked, "So where does the Focus platform come from, and the 500" and just let him go on and on.

THen I corrected him...tells me that THAT Is what the literature taught him. Told him he needed to do some hardcore research, even Wikepedia if possible...even THEY have the information of where the CD3 platform comes from.

Simply horrible. I rather have someone honestly tell me "I dont know" than to just go on and on.

sounds like you spoke to a "product specialist"..basically someone from a talent agency hired by all the car companies as representatives of the product....most of them are models, actors, etc that are very good looking and appeal to what the brand wants it's image to portray.

jasonj80 · November 27, 2006

I said you already do it with your identical models of Mazdas....

Good post, just one thing for '07 Mazda has the same as Ford - 3year/36,000 - 5year/60,000 powertrain. Made the powertrain one year longer and the B2B one year shorter.

November 27, 2006

Well it's no secret the bean counters share the lion share for why so many Ford models start out very nice and end up the blue light special you know. Personally I think Ford could offer cars every bit as nice as Honda and not have to raise the price. But they won't do that because it would mean they could only manage a 92% markup from the factory rather than a 100% or something like that. In short, it just comes down to greed.

oldracer · November 28, 2006

I feel that the discussion was proof that people want to do a good job and excel, they just need management to get out of the way....and trust them.

My favorite vehicle at the show was the 4 door Wrangler Unlimited with the hard top that is a T-Top type arrangement, it presented well and I would consider one, it was interesting and well done.

Ford needs to do a Bronco to compete in that segment, I lovd the old Bronco's, no BS, just truck.

November 28, 2006

Ford needs to do a Bronco to compete in that segment, I lovd the old Bronco's, no BS, just truck.

Agreed. I've said for some time now that I think Ford should build a true "utility" version of the Expedition. I'm talking window cranks, manual locks, vinyl floor covering (no rug) and vinyl seats. The dash should be water tight so you can just open the doors and hose out the muck. There should be an AC converter and power outlets in the back to plug in tools, lights, whatever. The spare tire should be mounted on the back door because what good is a spare tire up under the chassis when you're off road and have a flat? It should have a good solid 4X4 system and a roof rack. I don't think they'll ever make it because you couldn't justify 35 and 40 thousand dollar price tags on one.

Mark B. Morrow · November 28, 2006

Agreed. I've said for some time now that I think Ford should build a true "utility" version of the Expedition. I'm talking window cranks, manual locks, vinyl floor covering (no rug) and vinyl seats. The dash should be water tight so you can just open the doors and hose out the muck. There should be an AC converter and power outlets in the back to plug in tools, lights, whatever. The spare tire should be mounted on the back door because what good is a spare tire up under the chassis when you're off road and have a flat? It should have a good solid 4X4 system and a roof rack. I don't think they'll ever make it because you couldn't justify 35 and 40 thousand dollar price tags on one.

They couldn't justify the cost of building such a decontented vehicle. The economies of scale that are realized when every Expedition has the same window units, locks, etc. are lost when you have to design and stock crank window regulators, vinyl floor and seats that will only be used on a small number of units.

The case can be made for a Bronco that would be designed for that purpose like the Wrangler.

I hope you told him to visit fordlemon.com !!!! ha ha ha ha!

Lemon, You must have missed this part:

At this point I dragged him off and bought him a cup of coffee and explained about this website, (he is VERY aware of it), and he dismissed the crazies and trolls here, but said that much of the complaints and desires expressed here are widely known and discussed endlessly internally, but resolutions seem glacially slow in arriving.

Great Post Oldracer. It is somewhat encouraging to hear that there are people at Ford who get it and that the posts here are actually read and discussed. Hopefully the red tape will be cut with Mullaly's taking over and Ford will become a customer driven company.

Edited November 28, 2006 by Mark B. Morrow

November 28, 2006

They couldn't justify the cost of building such a decontented vehicle. The economies of scale that are realized when every Expedition has the same window units, locks, etc. are lost when you have to design and stock crank window regulators, vinyl floor and seats that will only be used on a small number of units.

You're absolutely right Mark and I was hoping someone would point this out because here in lies the core of the problem with Ford the company. There are so many levels of bureaucracy now that the company can't get out of it's own way to be innovative. Truly good ideas get pushed by the way side because the paperwork has become the most important thing and not the cars. One thing I know for sure and that is this country wasn't made great by paper pushers and bureaucrats. It was made so by driven men with a goal and the will to succeed no matter what. They did not allow their dreams to be tramped out because some bean counter decided it wasn't cost effective. Ford has become such a leviathan that it is literally choking itself to death on it's own mountains of useless protocol and administrative stuffed shirts. Somewhere deep within the power structure are most likely a lot of people with good ideas for great cars and trucks that would bring Ford to the greatness it once was. But after every idea is churned through useless committee after useless committee and then turned over to some bean counter who figures out where to cut costs even further the end result is a watered down hap hazard attempt of a vehicle that reflects what it truly is, a hollow corporate package.

WingBender · November 28, 2006

Ford today reminds me a lot of where my employer (Boeing) was back in the late 90's. The emphasis then was on "managing for value" (meaning shareholder value). Most of the upper management cheerleading revolved around increasing the company's stock price.

The result? For a couple of years there, Boeing was the "dog of the Dow" -- the only one of the Dow 30 Industrials whose share price dropped (this was during the bubble economy). The production lines got so backed up that they had to be shut down so the mess could be sorted out. Airbus continued to grab market share from Boeing in big chunks.

Then, a few years ago, something happened. Boeing started focusing on the product again. The new 787 has about 450 orders -- a record for a new airplane launch -- and it is still a year and a half away from first delivery. Boeing will outsell Airbus this year for the first time in about five years. And guess what? Boeing's stock price is around its all-time high.

The lesson here is that you can't put the cart before the horse. If you build an appealing, high-quality product that the customers want, then your stock price will take care of itself. I am confident that Alan Mulally knows this.

Edited November 28, 2006 by WingBender

triton-boy · November 28, 2006

I hope you told him to visit fordlemon.com !!!! ha ha ha ha!

iam a canadian too.but your an asshole get life f-head..............

J-150 · November 28, 2006

Ford today reminds me a lot of where my employer (Boeing) was back in the late 90's. The emphasis then was on "managing for value" (meaning shareholder value). Most of the upper management cheerleading revolved around increasing the company's stock price.

The result? For a couple of years there, Boeing was the "dog of the Dow" -- the only one of the Dow 30 Industrials whose share price dropped (this was during the bubble economy). The production lines got so backed up that they had to be shut down so the mess could be sorted out. Airbus continued to grab market share from Boeing in big chunks.

Then, a few years ago, something happened. Boeing started focusing on the product again. The new 787 has about 450 orders -- a record for a new airplane launch -- and it is still a year and a half away from first delivery. Boeing will outsell Airbus this year for the first time in about five years. And guess what? Boeing's stock price is around its all-time high.

The lesson here is that you can't put the cart before the horse. If you build an appealing, high-quality product that the customers want, then your stock price will take care of itself. I am confident that Alan Mulally knows this.

isn't Mulally the one that lead that product rejuventation?

Bluecon · November 28, 2006

isn't Mulally the one that lead that product rejuventation?

Airbus is in no way comparable to Toyota or Honda.

Ben Beeck · November 28, 2006

If I were Bill Ford, I'd start grooming this guy as my successor. He really understands what's wrong with the company and how to fix it.

WingBender · November 28, 2006

isn't Mulally the one that lead that product rejuventation?

Yes. Mulally was CEO of Boeing Commercial when the 787 (originally called the 7E7) program was launched.

Airbus is in no way comparable to Toyota or Honda.

This is true. Airbus has historically been heavily subsidized by the European governments. These subsidies take the form of low-interest loan guarantees, which are repayable only if the program turns a profit. They are very, very low risk. Essentially, if an Airbus airplane program is unsuccessful, the governments eat the loans.

Kotzenjunge · November 28, 2006

Knowing their fingers are out of their ears is a good start, but often "crazies and trolls" are under a far wider umbrella in their eyes. Of course the guy would agree with negative assessments, it's his job as a guy consumers might interact with. Get into a dispute and you may lose that customer. I don't doubt the specific dude's sincerity, but the company as a whole needs to make that sincerity happen through their products and dealership service.

oldracer · November 28, 2006

I immediately thought of idiots like Lemon when he said crazies and trolls....

A good start would be kill all the lawyers, all but 2 accountants to track the balance sheet and tell Wall St to fuck off, and run it the way businesses used to run, BASED ON PRODUCT...good product, good sales, piece of shit, poor sales.

This would require smarter planning and more focus on customer desires/needs rather than just following a trend that seems to work for now.

The hot & desirable cars traits should be made available in a more mainstream vehicle to capitalize on demand.

I would like a Torino, or Fairlane with 4 doors, and the Mustang driveline, 6 spped or 6 spd A/T.

If you want a 4 door performance sedan today, you better speak German and bring lots of $$$, there sure isn't a representative in the big 3 except for RWD charger's, 300C's and Magnum, which are still selling well and proving people want RWD cars still.

I would say a Taurus sized RWD with the Mustang driveline would be a good seller and might surprise everyone with demand.

GM is going RWD over the next few years, probably Bob Lutz should get credit for that, he actually likes cars...

However GM isn't stupid, they must see a damn good reason to do that.....imagine trying to succeed by providing a highly desirable product. What a Concept!!!!!!!!!!!!

All you young guys that worship FWD, don't even try to tell me it's better, go take one apart and checkout the shitty designs and durability of transmissions compared to a run of the mill Panther car.....

It came about not because it's better at anything, but because it is easier to fabricate the car, therefore CHEAPER

NO real luxury or real racecars use that system, and for a reason too....it doesn't get the job done.

In the snow, FWD plows and steers poorly when attempting to turn with any degree of accuracy, RWD will drift the tail, but if you can actually drive, is much easier to deal with.

Now that we have ABS and Traction control, anyone can drive in the snow......