And the Taurus Fleet Queen Replacment is........

[silvrsvt]

For people clamoring about the Taurus sales, unless someone wants to invest some time at the local library, we'll never find an online source to see what the true break down of early Taurus sales where, market vs. fleet. I'd assume that th 86-92 models sold fairly well retail but after that not really.

[Noah Harbinger]

Fusion is smaller than Camry or Accord. Its smaller than Altima or Sonata.

 

Comparing between the Altima, Passat -- yes the larger Volkswagon, Camry, Accord, Sonata, and Fusion, I ranked their physical dimensions, internal and external, for all physical size dimensions that were available between all cars, and took the average of their rankings. The final result:

 

Car - Avg. Ranking (lower is bigger)

 

Sonata - 2.4

Camry - 2.73

Fusion - 3.2

Accord - 3.47

Altima - 3.6

Passat - 4.66

 

On average, dead in the middle of the pack. And no, Virginia, it is not smaller than the Accord or Altima -- and is much larger than the larger sibling of the car you said it was "on par with".

 

Apparently this site won't let me upload any spreadsheet with the data (XLS, CSV, or even TXT -- grr!). So y'all, here's the data I used, copied/pasted. Looks like it's tab separated, save it to a .txt file and import into excel if you care.

 

Altima Passat Camry Accord Sonata Fusion

Exterior length 189.8" 188.2" 189.2" 191.1" 188.9" 190.2"

Exterior body width 70.7" 71.7" 71.7" 71.6" 72.1" 72.2"

Exterior height 57.9" 58.0" 57.5" 57.2" 58.0" 57.2"

Wheelbase 109.3" 106.7" 109.3" 107.9" 107.4" 107.4"

Front tread 61.0" 61.1" 62.0" 61.1" 62.0" 61.6"

Rear tread 61.0" 61.1" 61.6" 61.2" 61.4" 61.3"

Turning radius 18.7' 17.9' 18.1' 18.1' 17.9' 19.4'

Front legroom 42.2" 41.4" 41.6" 42.6" 43.7" 42.3"

Rear legroom 39.5" 37.7" 38.3" 36.8" 37.4" 37.0"

Front headroom 40.6" 38.4" 38.8" 40.4" 40.1" 38.7"

Rear headroom 36.8" 37.8" 37.8" 38.5" 38.2" 37.8"

Front hiproom 56.8" n/a 54.6" 54.6" 55.5" 54.0"

Rear hiproom 52.5" n/a 53.9" 53.5" 55.3" 53.4"

Front shoulder room 55.7" 55.7" 57.8" 56.9" 57.4" 57.4"

Rear shoulder room 55.5" 54.6" 56.7" 56.1" 56.9" 56.5"

Passenger volume 100.7 cu.ft. 96.3 cu.ft. 101.4 cu.ft. 102.7 cu.ft. 105.4 cu.ft. 100.0 cu.ft.

Interior cargo volume 17.9 cu.ft. 14.2 cu.ft. 15.0 cu.ft. 14.0 cu.ft. 16.3 cu.ft. 15.8 cu.ft.

Maximum interior cargo volume 17.9 cu.ft. 14.2 cu.ft 15.0 cu.ft. 14.0 cu.ft 16.3 cu.ft 15.8 cu.ft.

 

Altima Passat Camry Accord Sonata Fusion

Exterior length 3 6 4 1 5 2

Exterior body width 6 3 3 5 2 1

Exterior height 3 1 4 5 1 5

Wheelbase 1 6 1 3 4 4

Front tread 6 4 1 4 1 3

Rear tread 6 5 1 4 2 3

Turning radius 2 5 3 3 5 1

Front legroom 4 6 5 2 1 3

Rear legroom 1 3 2 6 4 5

Front headroom 1 6 4 2 3 5

Rear headroom 6 3 3 1 2 3

Front shoulder room 5 5 1 4 2 2

Rear shoulder room 5 6 2 4 1 3

Passenger volume 4 6 3 2 1 5

Interior cargo volume 1 5 4 6 2 3

Average Ranking 3.6 4.666666667 2.733333333 3.466666667 2.4 3.2

Edited December 26, 2006 by Noah Harbinger

[Roadrunner]

Noah, you rock!

[WC-MAN]

The preception of small size is due to the belief it replaced the contour in the lineup. Ford used to have compacts, senior compacts, midsize, and large (escort, tempo/contuor, taurus, and Crown Victoria) Now they have compact, midsize, large and large (focus, fusion, five hundred, and crown vic). The Fusion replaced the Taurus, the Five Hundred is a new model that offers a full-size alternative to the rwd old-school Crown Vic.

[silvrsvt]

The preception of small size is due to the belief it replaced the contour in the lineup.

 

No sir, The Focus replaced the Contour, due to the fact that they exactly had the same interior room in the front and Ford's piss poor car planning in the late 1990's and early 2000's.

 

The Contour was poorly slotted for the North American market when it came out, it was too expensive for its size (too close to a Taurus) and that helped killed it.

 

Ford has finally fixed the size and price problems it had with the Taraus, Contour and Escort with the 500, Fusion, Focus and the upcoming B-car. The Taurus was sized as a plus sized C car that went into D car proportions, the Contour didn't strattle the C/D segment well since it was more on the C size and the Escort was a small C car itself. With the new cars that have come out since 2004/05, their sizes have and more importantly prices have been fixed properly, save the Focus, since its being forced to be a B-car in price.

[WC-MAN]

It replaced BOTH! Compact/Senior compact, DUH! That means both cars were in the same segment. Surely you are not claiming the lame-wad coupe that drug on for the first few years the Focus was on the market was actually MEANT to continue to sell alongside the Focus.

 

By your measure, the Dodge Neon didn't actually replace the Shadow, nor the Caliber the Neon. And Honda hasn't replaced the Civic in what, ever? They just keep releasing bigger cars with the same name. In fact, the current Civic is obviously a replacement for the 80's era Accord, they have the same measurements! :lol:

 

What difference does it make. You couldn't find 2 people in you average shopping mall that give a rat's ass about the Contour! My neighbor, the Ford dealer, actually told me it was the most dangerous car Ford had made since the Pinto. Your right, they were too expensive and built for Europe, and they were abotu the same size as the Escort. "Hey! Come buy an Escort at a Taurus price!" (stampede ensues)

 

Okay so i'm simplifying but really!

 

So you feel we sould pay MORE for the Focus, yes as if it didn't sell well enough now, nothing boosts sales like a good ol' price hike. Screw alphabet soup segments! Ford needs a Civic competitor, Accord competitor, and a large car. Focus competes with the Civic, Fusion with the Accord. It doesn't matter what "Segment" they are in, as long as it is competitive.

[SysEng]

Taurus was not "50% larger" than other mid sized cars. The illusion of 'bigger' ...

 

 

I've been buying Ford product for about 20 years. I think that makes me a Ford "fan".

I think the Fusion is a nice car. But bluntly stated, it is mispositioned in the market...

PERIOD!

 

I see it as a great replacement for the Focus. If my reaction is that its a little

less than a current Camry or Accord, I leave it to your imagination how

none Ford "fans" will react. :reading:

 

And the "press" ( you remember those guys? ) call the 500 the Taurus replacement.

So you have a hostile press and a

Ford "fan" calling it the same way. May not be what you or Mr. Ford

want to hear... :shrug:

[Extreme4x4]

The only reason you see the Fusion as a Focus replacement, is because in your Panther warped mind, the CV is the large car, the 500 is the Camry/Accord replacement, and the Fusion competes with the Civic.

 

Grow up and realize that both the Fusion and the 500 compete with the Accord/Camry/Sonata/etc/etc.

 

The 500 covers the large end of the FWD midsize/large market, and the Fusion covers the middle ground of the midsize market. Everyone else gets it................. short of a few "stupid" "I couldn't tell a B car from a C car from a C/D car without a roadmap and navigation system" automotive "journalists." I use the "" around journalists because I feel that true journalism is becoming a lost art.................... and sensationalism "National Enquirer" journalism is becoming mainstream.

 

The Fusion is a good car. I drove one, and drove it hard. You can compare its dynamics to an Accord................. only with more soul and feel.

 

A dud indeed. :rolleyes:

[silvrsvt]

It replaced BOTH! Compact/Senior compact, DUH! That means both cars were in the same segment. Surely you are not claiming the lame-wad coupe that drug on for the first few years the Focus was on the market was actually MEANT to continue to sell alongside the Focus.

 

The Escort Zx2 was Ford's price entry for a B car

 

So you feel we sould pay MORE for the Focus, yes as if it didn't sell well enough now, nothing boosts sales like a good ol' price hike. Screw alphabet soup segments! Ford needs a Civic competitor, Accord competitor, and a large car. Focus competes with the Civic, Fusion with the Accord. It doesn't matter what "Segment" they are in, as long as it is competitive.

 

No the Focus should start at 13-14K, not 12K or less like it does now with incentives. Thats why Ford isn't making money on them. Take a look at the cobalt and Aveo pricing. The Cobalt starts at 13.6 and the Aevo at 9.5k..the Malibu starts at 17.8

[WC-MAN]

SysEng, I seriously think you should check out the "Compare" feature at fordvehicles.com. The Fusion is sized like the Camry, not the Civic.

 

The Escort Zx2 was Ford's price entry for a B car

 

Even the crackheads running Ford didn't believe this. Why, if the ZX-2 was meant to replace the Escort, one of which it was BTW, why offer only a 2 door coupe instead of the much popular 4-door bodystyle? Like SUV's and kids, everthing in the US these days has to get fatter. Ford couldn't dare replace the Escort with a similar sized car (replacing the Escort name ranks WAY up on my list of bonehead Ford moves) because Americans wouldn't feel like they were getting a supersize deal. Maybe Ford should consider building a car people will buy without incentives. Don't get me wrong, people who pay full price for a Honda when they can get a Ford with incentives is a fool, you never make up the difference.

 

Focus SE sedan retails for $15,665, $13,165 after incentives. The $11,000 car is the stripper S model, which you are unlikely to find on lots and sells primarily to fleets.

 

The Honda Civic DX retails for $15,105, $15,605 with destination. This is the most popular reetail Civic, just as the SE is the most popular retail Focus, and has comaprable equipment levels. But to be fair, the Civic LX (second tier in the hiearchy, just like the SE) retails for $17,555.

 

All of these represent the car with no options added, just the base price with incetives and taxes added/subtracted.

Edited January 1, 2007 by WC-MAN

[Anthony]

Comparing between the Altima, Passat -- yes the larger Volkswagon, Camry, Accord, Sonata, and Fusion, I ranked their physical dimensions, internal and external, for all physical size dimensions that were available between all cars, and took the average of their rankings. The final result:

 

Car - Avg. Ranking (lower is bigger)

 

Sonata - 2.4

Camry - 2.73

Fusion - 3.2

Accord - 3.47

Altima - 3.6

Passat - 4.66

 

On average, dead in the middle of the pack. And no, Virginia, it is not smaller than the Accord or Altima -- and is much larger than the larger sibling of the car you said it was "on par with".

 

Apparently this site won't let me upload any spreadsheet with the data (XLS, CSV, or even TXT -- grr!). So y'all, here's the data I used, copied/pasted. Looks like it's tab separated, save it to a .txt file and import into excel if you care.

 

Altima Passat Camry Accord Sonata Fusion

Exterior length 189.8" 188.2" 189.2" 191.1" 188.9" 190.2"

Exterior body width 70.7" 71.7" 71.7" 71.6" 72.1" 72.2"

Exterior height 57.9" 58.0" 57.5" 57.2" 58.0" 57.2"

Wheelbase 109.3" 106.7" 109.3" 107.9" 107.4" 107.4"

Front tread 61.0" 61.1" 62.0" 61.1" 62.0" 61.6"

Rear tread 61.0" 61.1" 61.6" 61.2" 61.4" 61.3"

Turning radius 18.7' 17.9' 18.1' 18.1' 17.9' 19.4'

Front legroom 42.2" 41.4" 41.6" 42.6" 43.7" 42.3"

Rear legroom 39.5" 37.7" 38.3" 36.8" 37.4" 37.0"

Front headroom 40.6" 38.4" 38.8" 40.4" 40.1" 38.7"

Rear headroom 36.8" 37.8" 37.8" 38.5" 38.2" 37.8"

Front hiproom 56.8" n/a 54.6" 54.6" 55.5" 54.0"

Rear hiproom 52.5" n/a 53.9" 53.5" 55.3" 53.4"

Front shoulder room 55.7" 55.7" 57.8" 56.9" 57.4" 57.4"

Rear shoulder room 55.5" 54.6" 56.7" 56.1" 56.9" 56.5"

Passenger volume 100.7 cu.ft. 96.3 cu.ft. 101.4 cu.ft. 102.7 cu.ft. 105.4 cu.ft. 100.0 cu.ft.

Interior cargo volume 17.9 cu.ft. 14.2 cu.ft. 15.0 cu.ft. 14.0 cu.ft. 16.3 cu.ft. 15.8 cu.ft.

Maximum interior cargo volume 17.9 cu.ft. 14.2 cu.ft 15.0 cu.ft. 14.0 cu.ft 16.3 cu.ft 15.8 cu.ft.

 

Altima Passat Camry Accord Sonata Fusion

Exterior length 3 6 4 1 5 2

Exterior body width 6 3 3 5 2 1

Exterior height 3 1 4 5 1 5

Wheelbase 1 6 1 3 4 4

Front tread 6 4 1 4 1 3

Rear tread 6 5 1 4 2 3

Turning radius 2 5 3 3 5 1

Front legroom 4 6 5 2 1 3

Rear legroom 1 3 2 6 4 5

Front headroom 1 6 4 2 3 5

Rear headroom 6 3 3 1 2 3

Front shoulder room 5 5 1 4 2 2

Rear shoulder room 5 6 2 4 1 3

Passenger volume 4 6 3 2 1 5

Interior cargo volume 1 5 4 6 2 3

Average Ranking 3.6 4.666666667 2.733333333 3.466666667 2.4 3.2

 

 

Why did you use turning radius as an indicator of physical size? (Don't get me wrong, I love a good turning radius, but it does not tell me how big a car is as I'm sure the turning radius on many A and B sized cars are even better, yet they are much smaller). I'd pull that one out along with any exterior dimension (use only true passenger and cargo volume to get a much better indicator of how a vehicle utilizes its size) Overhangs and body protusions do nothing but artifically inflate a vehicle's length and width, but do nothing for the driver or passengers when the interior volume is not comparable to the exterior dimensions.

 

The below would be a truer indicator of what a prospective buyer really compares when test driving similar sized cars from your list above:

 

Altima Passat Camry Accord Sonata Fusion

Front legroom 4 6 5 2 1 3

Rear legroom 1 3 2 6 4 5

Front headroom 1 6 4 2 3 5

Rear headroom 6 3 3 1 2 3

Front shoulder room 5 5 1 4 2 2

Rear shoulder room 5 6 2 4 1 3

Passenger volume 4 6 3 2 1 5

Interior cargo volume 1 5 4 6 2 3

 

Average rankings: 3.375 5 3 3.375 2 3.625

 

Using these rankings (which still do not clearly indicate a size difference) it changes the outcome considerably.

[SysEng]

The only reason you see the Fusion as a Focus replacement, is because in your Panther warped mind, the CV is the large car, the 500 is the Camry/Accord replacement, and the Fusion competes with the Civic.

 

Grow up and realize that both the Fusion and the 500 compete with the Accord/Camry/Sonata/etc/etc.

 

The 500 covers the large end of the FWD midsize/large market, and the Fusion covers the middle ground of the midsize market. Everyone else gets it................. short of a few "stupid" "I couldn't tell a B car from a C car from a C/D car without a roadmap and navigation system" automotive "journalists." I use the "" around journalists because I feel that true journalism is becoming a lost art.................... and sensationalism "National Enquirer" journalism is becoming mainstream.

 

The Fusion is a good car. I drove one, and drove it hard. You can compare its dynamics to an Accord................. only with more soul and feel.

 

A dud indeed. :rolleyes:

 

Note to Moderator. Please include my "mgunner" ( smilie in my previous post )

in your smilies list. With replies like this I'm gonna need it much more often.

Oh, and I have a "mafia" hitman one if the "panther mafia" needs more

ammo... :tease:

 

Sorry dude, but the Fusion may yet be a grand slam. The 500 is still a dud.

If the "crackheads" running Ford see things as you do, I can see Toyota

doing very well... er... excuse me! They ARE doing very well.

[NickF1011]

Note to Moderator. Please include my "mgunner" ( smilie in my previous post )

in your smilies list. With replies like this I'm gonna need it much more often.

Oh, and I have a "mafia" hitman one if the "panther mafia" needs more

ammo... :tease:

 

Sorry dude, but the Fusion may yet be a grand slam. The 500 is still a dud.

If the "crackheads" running Ford see things as you do, I can see Toyota

doing very well... er... excuse me! They ARE doing very well.

 

As much as the 500 is a dud, it's still only a few tweaks away from being a truly competitive, if not leading rival in the class. Its main shortcoming by all journalistic accounts has been resolved for the '08 model year: POWER. We'll see what happens from there. Refining the interior and exterior shapes will happen over time. At least it's not taking them 5 years to address some of these issues as they did in the past.

[sranger]

As much as the 500 is a dud, it's still only a few tweaks away from being a truly competitive, if not leading rival in the class. Its main shortcoming by all journalistic accounts has been resolved for the '08 model year: POWER. We'll see what happens from there. Refining the interior and exterior shapes will happen over time. At least it's not taking them 5 years to address some of these issues as they did in the past.

 

You nailed it.... 500 + 3.5L + 6 speed = more $ales...

 

Of course 500 + 4.6L v8 + 6 speed + rear wheel drive would = much more $ales

 

To bad it took Ford 2 years to figure that out...

[SysEng]

As much as the 500 is a dud, it's still only a few tweaks away from being a truly competitive....

 

If the "Interecptor" concept car is any indication, you are so very right!

 

THAT would pick up the 500 in a flash! Further, that body is almost

dimensionally exactly a 500. Not a lot of work would be needed to

get that on the 500 chassis. Add 3.5L ( my 3.8L "hurricane" concept is better )

and 6F66 auto tranny ( eliminate that last potential sales killer ) and

I have a few Taurus driving relatives who would be customers for that,

in a flash.

 

You might even get me to recommend the 500... now

wouldn't that be different?